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I don't agree with the argument that passengers should tip because Uber isn't paying their drivers enough. That sounds like welfare for Uber. If the pay sucks,
by dataminded 10y ago
I don't agree with the argument that passengers should tip because Uber isn't paying their drivers enough. That sounds like welfare for Uber. If the pay sucks, Uber should have trouble recruiting drivers.
- djsumdog 10y agoI really hate tipping culture in America. In Germany, servers are surprised if you give them anything more thana euro. I have friends who visit from non tipping cultures who ask "Why isn't it just included in the price!" I agree with the author. Tipping is out of hand. Charge more for food, clearly state it on the menu/check, remove the tip black on the receipt and pay people a decent wage!
- mikepurvis 10y agoI don't mind tipping in principle, but I really hate the payment terminals that are preconfigured with outrageous options, so it prompts you to pick 20%, 25%, 30%, "other", so you feel like a total sleaze giving a normal 10-15% tip. It's the worst when I'm picking up takeout from a restaurant that also has tables. Like, am I supposed to tip in this scenario? Do I have to go into "other" to tip less than 20% for being handed a brown bag?
- fletchowns 10y agoI still tip the normal amount when I get takeout from a restaurant that has tables.
- calc_exe 10y agoIs this normal? I never tip for takeout..
- 1123581321 10y agoIt's not normal to tip for takeout, but if you want to, 10% is the standard tip as opposed to 15% for table service. But again, a takeout tip is not expected, especially for a simple order.
- nilram 10y agoA friend is a cook who says that even at decent restaurants, cooks don't get paid much and they get just a minimal share of tips. So when I get takeout, I tip 10-20% and say "Thank-you, here's something for the kitchen." Sometimes I get thanks in return, sometimes just a sour look from a server who expected something more for putting my order in a bag. I have no idea what they'll do with the cash, but hopefully some of it gets to the back of the house.
- lostboys67 10y agoDoes the US not have the Tronc system?
- nilram 10y agoThe cash aspect was incidental. "Front of the house" workers here net a significantly higher take-home because they are the ones receiving the tips and what they pass on to others is typically discretionary. Even many of the best establishments will pay cooks subsistence wages. A few restaurants are going tipless, raising prices slightly and discouraging tips, so they can distribute pay more equitably, but then they can have problems retaining wait staff.
- wwalser 10y agoThis was my understanding as well. If they just ring up the total and pass you food, there's no expectation of a tip. I do tip from time to time at places where I'm a regular customer. If I get takeout somewhere near work of home ~4 times a month I'll drop a dollar in once every couple of trips.
- r00fus 10y agoI usually leave a couple of bucks, but definitely not 15%. That's for bussing the tables and being polite to my party.
- stbtrax 10y agoI feel like there's a certain segment of people that would probably tip if there was a tip prompt at the grocery store, or at the gas station.
- noer 10y ago1. There is a weird regionalism in the outer boroughs of New York City where the grocery stores don't hire someone to bag groceries. Either the cashier does it (which I think is totally normal) or there's someone who isn't paid by the store who bags groceries and collects tips in a little cup in the bagging area. I think it's so weird and it's the one place I've never tipped. I think I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen someone actually drop money into the jar in 10 years and the jars only ever seem to have pennies and other change in them. 2. At gas stations outside of New Jersey and Oregon, I had always thought you were supposed to tip when someone pumps your gas for you.
- hahajk 10y agoI was in a situation where I was getting takeout from Applebees's several times a week for a few months. I didn't tip in those situations, since I walked directly to the door, grabbed a box, and left. After 2 weeks, as the door closed, I heard the waitress complain "that guy never tips." I was mortified; I hate having that sort of bad reputation, deserved or not. No one likes tipping, but it's become a moral issue. Something transformative has to happen in America to change the situation.
- kelnos 10y agoIn that situation I still tip, just less, since my "load" on the restaurant staff is much less, no one had to take me to a table, take my order, bring my order, and clean my table. The tip is for the kitchen and for boxing/bagging up my order in that case, essentially. I hate that even that is required, though. I would gladly pay an extra 15-20% for the food itself if I didn't have to leave a tip & the staff was paid the "normal" minimum wage, or more.
- wutbrodo 10y agoYea, I always figured tipping was paying for table service, but who knows. Ambiguity around what it's for and how much is "normal" is just one of the many, many reasons tipping is so idiotic.
- freyr 10y ago> Do I have to go into "other" to tip less than 20% for being handed a brown bag? Yes, of course, you go into other and select 0%. You don't need to tip someone for handing you a bag, and prompting for a 20% tip is shameless.
- xtracto 10y agoAs a Mexican, every time I go to the Bay area and take a taxi, it amazes me how the taxi payment terminals have the option of 15%, 20% and 30%. Why would you tip a taxi?
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- foozed 10y agoI agree with the preconfigured options part. However it's important to realize that tips often get split between the whole staff. Most of the time you're not just tipping the person handing you the bag but everyone involved in preparing the food.
- atourgates 10y agoSome places in America are doing that. It's not always easy - and here's a NYT article that covers some of the benefits and issues: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/dining/restaurants-no-tipping-service.html?_r=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/dining/restaurants-no-tip... Locally even here in rural Idaho, one of our best local restaurants recently switched to no-tipping pricing. I'd say that as a diner, I _feel_ like I'm paying more for my meal, even though I always tipped at least 20% before the switch. As someone who grew up in a "tipping culture" I'd say that the act of tipping doesn't bother me, so much as the pain point of having cash in the correct denominations for things like tipping Uber drivers or valets.
- imartin2k 10y agoTipping culture is actually one factor which makes it unattractive for me to travel in the US. Too much mental costs.
- throw_away_777 10y agoIt really isn't that hard, pretty much you always just tip a standard amount (average tip is 15-20%).
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- mbel 10y agoWith tax miracullously not included in price, calculating tip and final total is a fun guessing game that you have to play each time you make an order.
- ceejayoz 10y ago> With tax miracullously not included in price Not to mention being variable on a city, county, state, and industry (hotel tax, for example) level!
- daxelrod 10y agoSure, but if you're not used to tipping, it can be confusing to figure out what services you should and should not tip for.
- foozed 10y agoThe part about Germany is not true at all! Sure servers may be surprised if you give them more than a euro when your total is less than 10 euros... Having been a server in a restaurant during most of my studies, i can tell you we definitely did not appreciate no or small tips - 5-10% is expected.
- gk1 10y agoThe same is true for tipping in restaurants and bars; it may seem like you're helping the server/bartender, but actually you're subsidizing the business.
- whiddershins 10y agoIt's different because in restaurants and bars it is so well established and priced in, it's really just part of the price.
- madeofpalk 10y agoThen make it a part of the price!
- whiddershins 10y agoThere are restaurants that have tried, several in Brooklyn currently do. I guess we'll see how it all plays out.
- r00fus 10y agoThis is the same US mentality where businesses are allowed to advertise the pre-tax price of a product. Essentially it's just a way for the seller to lie about their product price (yet the financial industry has free rein to force business to not itemize the CC fee). Everything seems more expensive in Europe, but at least you're paying prices that already include VAT.
- gabesullice 10y agoThis is like saying, "paying for your food is subsidizing the business." No customer can "subsidize" a business. If anything, you're hurting the business by tipping your servers. If you were to pay the bar directly and not tip, you can't assume that 100% of that would go directly to the bartenders. Profits are generally seen as some percentage of revenue, so those would be taken out, then the inceased wage would mean the business would have to pay more in payroll taxes, so that gets taken out as well. The only way to ensure the bartender doesn't _lose_ money from the change would be to pay the bar _more_ than you would have tipped. But in that case, you'd buy fewer drinks. In the end, the only one who profits is the tax man while you get less beer and fewer appletinis.
- Scrypy 10y agoUber is having problems to find good drivers.
- thinkloop 10y agoI too am not a fan of tipping culture. But I don't see it as welfare for Uber, if Uber charged 18% more, and passed it on to drivers, the net effect would be the same. One thing I think it would do is harm the perceived cost of uber rides. Partitioned pricing works. Anchoring users on a lower base fare + 20% service, is, unfortunately, "cheaper" than 1.2 * fare for most people. At minimum Lyft would have to agree to do the same.
- dnautics 10y agoIf you're tipping the drivers off-app, then uber sees 0% of it as a cut, versus 30% or whatever crazy percentage it's become. So it's exactly anti-welfare for Uber. Are you complaining that other passengers are changing the expectation of what the drivers should be paid (and doing so out of their own wallet?)
- miguelmejia 10y ago> So it's exactly anti-welfare for Uber. Not quite. By "welfare for Uber", they meant the burden of compensating the driver shifts from Uber to the passenger themselves, rather than on Uber to the driver a "fair cut" (whatever that may be).
- prostoalex 10y agoLyft is the only major ridesharing app allowing in-app tipping, so they get to set the industry standard here, and in-app tipping is cut-free according to Lyft https://help.lyft.com/hc/en-us/articles/213815618-Lyft-Commission-Structure https://help.lyft.com/hc/en-us/articles/213815618-Lyft-Commi... "Lyft takes no commission from tips, which passengers can add easily through the app. That's right — drivers always keep 100% of tips, whether it's a buck or a Benjamin."
- dnautics 10y agoyeah they had a bit of a problem with this when lyft's original surge pricing was billed as a 'mandatory tip'. But they corrected it by eliminating the word 'tip' from primetime when the started taking a cut from it. There was about a two week period when they were not in compliance with the laws on the matter despite that I emailed them in advance of change warning them this was going to be a problem.
- convolvatron 10y agotipping is a shady way of shifting the cost and more importantly the risk of employment onto the customer über barely scrapes the minimum of a viable living for their drivers because they exploit the desperate.
- hug 10y agoHundreds of trips on Uber, in Australia -- There is no tip culture here. Out of those hundreds, I've had two ask for positive ratings, absolutely none ask for a tip. With drivers who have seemed friendly enough I've tried to politely and diplomatically inquire about how fair they feel the system is. Several ex-taxi drivers have told me it is better than driving for an official taxi company in every way, including pay. (Note that taxi drivers are never tipped either.) I have been surprised by the number of people who have been driving for Uber as a bit of cash on the side, and not as a primary income -- all of them have told me it's "worth it" except for learning a lesson early on not to drive late at night and pick up drunks, as the chances of having to clean up after an extremely messy fare is too high.
- julianozen 10y agoMy theory on this is that Uber is not 100% transparent on what drivers will earn, offering them incentives and promises that skew the numbers for new drivers. Because there are always drivers willing to try and get burned out, prices stayed depressed.
- lostboys67 10y agoProbaly get a lot of drivers whose immigration status is "questionable"