7 ms·

Though I'm a meat eater, I have a strong suspicion that the arrival of high-quality meat alternatives will cause a societal shift away from eating meat to the p

by readams 10y ago

Though I'm a meat eater, I have a strong suspicion that the arrival of high-quality meat alternatives will cause a societal shift away from eating meat to the point where it would become rare. As it is, giving up meat is a huge decline in quality of life and its easy to rationalize meat consumption. It needs to be actually comparable in quality and the price needs to come way down though first. It's easy to imagine a future where the _best_ meat is actually grown in this way and is nonetheless cheaper than more environmentally friendly than raising animals. And of course, then it becomes possible to build meats that correspond to no actual animal

markba 10y ago
How is it a huge decline in quality of life?
- imaginenore 10y ago
  When you stop doing what you like/love, it's a huge decline in quality of life.
  - throwaway243546 10y ago
    This argument only works if you assume that people who go vegan enjoys food less than they did before they went vegan. The reality is that most vegans report enjoying food much more. The reason for that is that they are forced to experiment with different flavors and get more creative, which expands their culinary horizons.
    - henrikschroder 10y ago
      Stockholm Syndrome is also a viable explanation.
      - lolwaaaat 10y ago
        For eating meat, possibly.
    - spdionis 10y ago
      This is a faulty argument. People who join various religious sects say the same exact things. Overlooking whether vegans or religious sects are good, bad or whatever, what really happens is probably that people find other vegan people, become part of a community and enjoy that. It's the same cargo cult process that makes everyone want an Iphone. I dread the day when a high percentage or, god forbid, majority of people start looking down on those dirty meat-eaters because "won't anyone think of the animals?".
- anotheryou 10y ago
  Like changing 80% of all meals to something less desired? "huge" is debatable, but certainly a valid standpoint. In any way: there are pros and cons and everyone should weigh them against each other: health, price, animal cruelty, taste etc. My compromise e.g. is non strict (and hopefully non dogmatic) vegetarian with preferably organic diary products.
- m_fayer 10y ago
  Meat is the easiest form of high quality protein. Not everyone's digestive system is amenable to high quantities of non-meat protein sources or to high-carb diets.
  - marricks 10y ago
    How is it easiest? Perhaps most accessible how society is currently setup, but beans, tofu, etc are all good for you, plenty of vegan body builders rely on them. This "high quality" protein myth is garbage.
    - jordanthoms 10y ago
      Chicken breast and many other meats have a much higher ratio of protein compared to carbs and fat than tofu, beans, etc.
      - marricks 10y ago
        This argument boggles my mind. Are we all body builders? Why do we need to eat like them? There's this protein craze going on that we all need to eat the densest sources of protein cause we all look like Arnold. The amount of protein in seeds, tofu, seitan, nuts, legumes is plenty for almost anyone. And if you are power lifting even omnivore lifters take protein shakes after working out usually.
        jimmywanger 10y ago
        > Why do we need to eat like them? You're shifting the argument. The point isn't that we need to eat like them, it's that we want to, and meat is delicious. > The amount of protein in seeds, tofu, seitan, nuts, legumes is plenty for almost anyone. By that logic, there'd be no point in manufacturing sports cars or macbook pros anymore, because normal cars and Chromebooks have enough power for "almost anyone".
        tluyben2 10y ago
- neutronicus 10y ago
  If you work out, figuring out where your protein's gonna come from is a huge pain in the ass (especially if you want to avoid Soy).
  - MisterBastahrd 10y ago
    Not really. Protein is plentiful in the plant world, and soy isn't the only supplemental source.
marricks 10y ago
I gave up animal products and found a pretty good increase in quality of life. It happened when other changes were occuring in my life, but I lost weight, hung out with other vegans, felt better overall. It can really depend on when you live, but being vegan in most US metropolitan areas is pretty easy these days. As for lab meats, they're great and I'm generally for them, but acting like we don't have viable other solutions is a bit silly. Lentils, beans, nuts, seeds, seitan, tofu, all great sources of protein.
- BinaryIdiot 10y ago
  > acting like we don't have viable other solutions is a bit silly. Lentils, beans, nuts, seeds, seitan, tofu, all great sources of protein. Depends on what you mean by "viable". Food is a huge part of culture and while those items you listed do provide protein it's, in my opinion, no where near as enjoyable as various types of meat. In fact many of that, to me, is really gross and I've tried multiple versions of all of it. Naturally to others meat may be gross. There isn't a one size fits all solution here. We've evolved taste for a reason and it's hard to ignore if you don't like the "other solutions". So I would say I disagree with your statement when you call the other items "viable other solutions" :)
  - marricks 10y ago
    I used to really like eating meat too. Also used to not like seitan or beans much, but now I love 'em. Tastes changed since I went vegan. If your litmus test for "viable" is what currently makes you the happiest you'll be blocked off from not only helping the world but likely helping yourself too.
    - lolwaaaat 10y ago
      This has also been my experience having gone vegan. Honestly, people make it out to be a big deal, but it isn't.
    - BinaryIdiot 10y ago
      > If your litmus test for "viable" is what currently makes you the happiest you'll be blocked off from not only helping the world but likely helping yourself too. I find that terribly narrow minded. It's not about "happiest". I've tried almost all of those before, several of them in multiple ways. I don't like the taste nor texture. So since I don't like the taste of what you like I am thusly being selfish and blocked from helping myself and the world? This isn't how you win people over to your side. This is the type of thing that actually reinforces someone's opinion and makes it worse getting through to them. Instead of trying to make yourself sound better than the person you want to convince of your position, you would be better off trying to find common ground and working from there. "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar" Best of luck.

by readams 10y ago

markba 10y ago

How is it a huge decline in quality of life?

imaginenore 10y ago
When you stop doing what you like/love, it's a huge decline in quality of life.
- throwaway243546 10y ago
  This argument only works if you assume that people who go vegan enjoys food less than they did before they went vegan. The reality is that most vegans report enjoying food much more. The reason for that is that they are forced to experiment with different flavors and get more creative, which expands their culinary horizons.
  - henrikschroder 10y ago
    Stockholm Syndrome is also a viable explanation.
    - lolwaaaat 10y ago
      For eating meat, possibly.
  - spdionis 10y ago
    This is a faulty argument. People who join various religious sects say the same exact things. Overlooking whether vegans or religious sects are good, bad or whatever, what really happens is probably that people find other vegan people, become part of a community and enjoy that. It's the same cargo cult process that makes everyone want an Iphone. I dread the day when a high percentage or, god forbid, majority of people start looking down on those dirty meat-eaters because "won't anyone think of the animals?".
anotheryou 10y ago
Like changing 80% of all meals to something less desired? "huge" is debatable, but certainly a valid standpoint. In any way: there are pros and cons and everyone should weigh them against each other: health, price, animal cruelty, taste etc. My compromise e.g. is non strict (and hopefully non dogmatic) vegetarian with preferably organic diary products.
m_fayer 10y ago
Meat is the easiest form of high quality protein. Not everyone's digestive system is amenable to high quantities of non-meat protein sources or to high-carb diets.
- marricks 10y ago
  How is it easiest? Perhaps most accessible how society is currently setup, but beans, tofu, etc are all good for you, plenty of vegan body builders rely on them. This "high quality" protein myth is garbage.
  - jordanthoms 10y ago
    Chicken breast and many other meats have a much higher ratio of protein compared to carbs and fat than tofu, beans, etc.
    - marricks 10y ago
      This argument boggles my mind. Are we all body builders? Why do we need to eat like them? There's this protein craze going on that we all need to eat the densest sources of protein cause we all look like Arnold. The amount of protein in seeds, tofu, seitan, nuts, legumes is plenty for almost anyone. And if you are power lifting even omnivore lifters take protein shakes after working out usually.
      - jimmywanger 10y ago
        > Why do we need to eat like them? You're shifting the argument. The point isn't that we need to eat like them, it's that we want to, and meat is delicious. > The amount of protein in seeds, tofu, seitan, nuts, legumes is plenty for almost anyone. By that logic, there'd be no point in manufacturing sports cars or macbook pros anymore, because normal cars and Chromebooks have enough power for "almost anyone".
        tluyben2 10y ago
neutronicus 10y ago
If you work out, figuring out where your protein's gonna come from is a huge pain in the ass (especially if you want to avoid Soy).
- MisterBastahrd 10y ago
  Not really. Protein is plentiful in the plant world, and soy isn't the only supplemental source.

marricks 10y ago

I gave up animal products and found a pretty good increase in quality of life. It happened when other changes were occuring in my life, but I lost weight, hung out with other vegans, felt better overall. It can really depend on when you live, but being vegan in most US metropolitan areas is pretty easy these days. As for lab meats, they're great and I'm generally for them, but acting like we don't have viable other solutions is a bit silly. Lentils, beans, nuts, seeds, seitan, tofu, all great sources of protein.

BinaryIdiot 10y ago
> acting like we don't have viable other solutions is a bit silly. Lentils, beans, nuts, seeds, seitan, tofu, all great sources of protein. Depends on what you mean by "viable". Food is a huge part of culture and while those items you listed do provide protein it's, in my opinion, no where near as enjoyable as various types of meat. In fact many of that, to me, is really gross and I've tried multiple versions of all of it. Naturally to others meat may be gross. There isn't a one size fits all solution here. We've evolved taste for a reason and it's hard to ignore if you don't like the "other solutions". So I would say I disagree with your statement when you call the other items "viable other solutions" :)
- marricks 10y ago
  I used to really like eating meat too. Also used to not like seitan or beans much, but now I love 'em. Tastes changed since I went vegan. If your litmus test for "viable" is what currently makes you the happiest you'll be blocked off from not only helping the world but likely helping yourself too.
  - lolwaaaat 10y ago
    This has also been my experience having gone vegan. Honestly, people make it out to be a big deal, but it isn't.
  - BinaryIdiot 10y ago
    > If your litmus test for "viable" is what currently makes you the happiest you'll be blocked off from not only helping the world but likely helping yourself too. I find that terribly narrow minded. It's not about "happiest". I've tried almost all of those before, several of them in multiple ways. I don't like the taste nor texture. So since I don't like the taste of what you like I am thusly being selfish and blocked from helping myself and the world? This isn't how you win people over to your side. This is the type of thing that actually reinforces someone's opinion and makes it worse getting through to them. Instead of trying to make yourself sound better than the person you want to convince of your position, you would be better off trying to find common ground and working from there. "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar" Best of luck.