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Unions defends workers like lawyers defend criminals. They make sure your rights are preserved. Do you think people accused of harassment shouldn't be defended

by byroot 10y ago

Unions defends workers like lawyers defend criminals. They make sure your rights are preserved. Do you think people accused of harassment shouldn't be defended by lawyers?

yummyfajitas 10y ago
I'm glad we are in agreement - unions will attempt to protect the job/rights of the accused harasser. Hence my comment that I'd be very happy to have a union rep if I wanted to harass people.
- 14113 10y ago
  Just as you'd be happy to have a lawyer if you wanted to commit a crime - your point being?
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    I'm glad we all now agree that the main problem to be solved with sexual harassment cases is ensuring the protection of the accused and due process. Strange - so much interest in due process now. But I don't recall seeing a single comment of that nature when discussing Uber firing Amit Singhal, or Susan Fowler's accusations. Where were all the union advocates then?
    - abiox 10y ago
      probably because they weren't mentioned then, and unions aren't that topical in the US where the corporate lobby has mostly dismantled them and disadvantaged the citizenry.
- dannypgh 10y ago
  I don't think this is inherent to the idea of a union. Unions should be democratic (I don't defend unions that don't give a shit about democracy), and tend to be quite concerned with process. If the union wants to support the accused and not defend the harasser that's their perogative, and if you don't like how your union handles (or doesn't handle) these situations you have the ability to lobby your union to change its process.
- TheCoelacanth 10y ago
  Except that the victim of the harassment would also have union representation. Assuming that both the perpetrator and the victim started out equal, the union hasn't changed the balance of power at all. However, in most cases of harassment, the perpetrator is someone with more power than the victim, so the union shifts power towards the victim.
- GrinningFool 10y ago
  Isn't the union going to protect the rights/jobs of both the accuser and the accused until a determination is reached?

by byroot 10y ago

Unions defends workers like lawyers defend criminals. They make sure your rights are preserved. Do you think people accused of harassment shouldn't be defended by lawyers?

yummyfajitas 10y ago

I'm glad we are in agreement - unions will attempt to protect the job/rights of the accused harasser. Hence my comment that I'd be very happy to have a union rep if I wanted to harass people.

14113 10y ago
Just as you'd be happy to have a lawyer if you wanted to commit a crime - your point being?
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  I'm glad we all now agree that the main problem to be solved with sexual harassment cases is ensuring the protection of the accused and due process. Strange - so much interest in due process now. But I don't recall seeing a single comment of that nature when discussing Uber firing Amit Singhal, or Susan Fowler's accusations. Where were all the union advocates then?
  - abiox 10y ago
    probably because they weren't mentioned then, and unions aren't that topical in the US where the corporate lobby has mostly dismantled them and disadvantaged the citizenry.
dannypgh 10y ago
I don't think this is inherent to the idea of a union. Unions should be democratic (I don't defend unions that don't give a shit about democracy), and tend to be quite concerned with process. If the union wants to support the accused and not defend the harasser that's their perogative, and if you don't like how your union handles (or doesn't handle) these situations you have the ability to lobby your union to change its process.
TheCoelacanth 10y ago
Except that the victim of the harassment would also have union representation. Assuming that both the perpetrator and the victim started out equal, the union hasn't changed the balance of power at all. However, in most cases of harassment, the perpetrator is someone with more power than the victim, so the union shifts power towards the victim.
GrinningFool 10y ago
Isn't the union going to protect the rights/jobs of both the accuser and the accused until a determination is reached?