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That's timely. I just had a discussion with the taxi driver on the way to the airport here in southwest China about education. He seemed to be suggesting that,

That's timely. I just had a discussion with the taxi driver on the way to the airport here in southwest China about education. He seemed to be suggesting that, given I spoke Mandarin and English, I would be well-regarded as a teacher. I had to explain that the type of thing I do is not really available in the syllabus of universities or schools in China, and that while I'd investigated opening one the government policy made it a prohibitively difficult and unstable proposition to run a non-standard syllabus. I arrived at the airport, and had a 10 minute wait to get in the door, because people were employed to manually wave an explosives-detection wand over everyone's bag. Entering the main hall, the flights display did not have my flight listed. I asked a nearby shiny sash-wearing airport employee what was up. She directed me to the right place immediately. Evidently, nobody had bothered to update the computer. The manual-only (despite the zero luggage encouraged nature of the airline) check-in wasn't yet opened, so I went up to the F&B level, where I met some Nepalis en-route back to Kathmandu from studying computing in Korea who needed to change money to eat and couldn't, because the manual change bureaus weren't open. I then had a ridiculously bad meal ordered from a place where the lights were only half functional where neither the table nor environment were properly cleaned. During the meal, manual cleaners and their trolleys wafted about the dining area without urgency. After the meal I opened my laptop and had to go through a dated SMS code-sending procedure to get on the airport wifi. Robots and automation would have improved the experience on so many levels, but I don't want the world to turn in to a shiny fascist utopia like Singapore. I'm literally on the way to the Pearl River Delta (Hong Kong/Shenzhen) on a project to build food-making robots - http://infinite-food.com/ http://infinite-food.com/ - but the human question is a strong one and it unsettles me. In a wholly automated future, where is the sense of worth going to come from for the average citizen? Where does it come from now? Somehow, after witnessing the miracle of transformation that is modern China (I've spent most of my adult life here), I can only believe that the human spirit will find a way, at least in this society. After all, on the grand scale of things, if we're all fed, clothed, housed, but simply bored... it's not a bad problem to have: onward to robotic noodles!

nthcolumn 10y ago
But we won't all be "fed, clothed, housed, but simply bored.." we will be surplus to requirements. A comparatively tiny elite will own the robots to feed, clothe and house themselves and also to protect what they have from the horde. So no change there really.
- crdoconnor 10y ago
  >no change there really That's what this whole robot story is about. This is why Ball State University's oft-cited study 'accidentally' mathematically defined outsourcing as the same thing as automation. This tiny elite are trying to redirect the pitchforks at a comparatively pointless target (robots) away from the targets that are actually causing mass unemployment that they want to keep (outsourcing, austerity). It's a good way to quell incipient union action, too ("if we unionize, they'll only replace us with a robot...").
  - nojvek 10y ago
    Who is to say that robots wont figure out us and keep us happy for their own agendas. I imagine a world where we've understood happiness at a fundamental level and how our body experiences it. The engagement and novelty of experiences are designed for every human to maximize their happiness, while minimizing resource consumption. Our robots working hard to make the world happier than its ever been, helping us live longer and explore the universe around us.
droopyEyelids 10y ago
Look back 40 years to see how the humans spirit dealt with Mao's china http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/maos-great-leap-forward-killed-45-million-in-four-years-2081630.html http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/m...
- contingencies 10y ago
  That was exactly my point - pretty well I'd say, 40 years later! I'm not championing countries here, but it's probably true to say that western views of Maoist China tend to lack breadth. For example I've personally video-interviewed people who had a great time being relocated for re-education in tropical paradise (despite the local ladies being off-limits), then spent years traveling around the country on the government's budget as lowly trade facilitators in the socialist planned economy! Besides, if we take China's cycle from wealthy and inward-looking to corrupt and despotic, through widespread opiate abuse (English-profiteering), war and revolution (Mao) to a complete social transformation (post-Mao), then isn't America at about opiate abuse, and due for a Mao? Oh wait, Trump... :)
  - abiox 10y ago
    > due for a Mao depends on whether that includes 45 million or so dead, i guess.
    - halfdan 10y ago
      Do we count the millions that have already been killed by US fought wars overseas in the last decade or so? Do we count the gun deaths?
      - abiox 10y ago
        this notion doesn't seem relevant. how does this relate?
abiox 10y ago
> After all, on the grand scale of things, if we're all fed, clothed, housed, but simply bored... i think there's a likely middle stage of skyrocketing unemployment where nobody has a job to earn money to buy food, nor a robotic source of food. this could lead to some luddite-like activities. businesses will pursue anything that reduces quarterly or annual expenses, but too few look at the overarching social impact of their choices. especially with the rather brittle mantra that "new jobs will be created, they always are".
- chii 10y ago
  a business will externalise any cost it can. that's how it is with climate change, pollution, and social cost. it's only when the populus demand a price to be paid for these externalities, will it be accounted for in the bottom line.
mc32 10y ago
In some ways Japan may be addressing their demographic challenges in a way that works for Japan. For years the west (businesses, academia, think thanks) has tried to convince Japan they needed to open immigration to address low birth rates --however, given their aging population and the advances in robotics and automation, their holding back the popular tide might make their transition into automation easier as they are naturally drifting to an economy which needs fewer people... Much of the west would also have plateauing or decreasing populations if it were not for the importation of foreign populations. Even advanced economies will be unable to provide middle class lifestyles to everyone if most people are not being productive in some way. We may just have to get used to most people doing more with less. That might mean living healthy but more frugal and less consumerist lives.
- crdoconnor 10y ago
  All Japan needs to do is to raise wages and increase job security. It's the same problem the US has, they've just had it for longer. Japanese birth rates didn't fall because of some fundamental, immutable law of the universe.
- istorical 10y ago
  > Even advanced economies will be unable to provide middle class lifestyles to everyone if most people are not being productive in some way. This doesn't really make sense to me. If we look purely at the economy in terms of its inputs and outputs - in terms of goods and services - we won't suddenly have less goods and services. We'll have the same or more goods and services with lower costs (because robots will be cheaper than people - otherwise we'd just employ people). So you have the same end result (the goods and services) with less operating costs - seems to me like if you don't change anything you'd either 1) see business owners growing their share of wealth while the hordes of unemployed starve - or 2) you'd increase taxes and increase welfare spending and things would net out such that the average person's quality of life could be preserved. Of course, if you're argument assumes that we're hurtling straight towards option 1, then yeah that makes sense. But it doesn't mathematically make sense to me that automation _has_ to mean people become destitute.
kitschshrine 10y ago
> miracle of transformation that is modern China There's no miracle. It's merely the communist party stopping 40 years of criminal abuse of its own citizens, and deciding to rent them out for pennies to the foreign corporations, and making billions in the progress (then allowing its members to escape China with the money). The miracle actually is that Communist party, with its massive debt, crashing economic policies, authoritarian policies, censorship, human rights abuse, trashing of its environment/food supplies/water supplies, is still standing.
- nojvek 10y ago
  Do you ever see China becoming a democratic country? The few Chinese I know really respect their president and are quite happy with it. Also why would countries move to democracy when US (face of democracy) is turning out to be a bad example?
- contingencies 10y ago
  the communist party stopping 40 years of criminal abuse of its own citizens, and deciding to rent them out for pennies to the foreign corporations, and making billions in the progress (then allowing its members to escape China with the money). It is a fair point that a lot of stolen money escaped the country, though it's generally recognized that this process is slowing now. However, it is not fair to suggest that the Chinese government abused its citizens for personal profit when quite clearly the entire population has benefited greatly from the country's transition to widespread modern material wealth. The miracle actually is that Communist party, with its massive debt, crashing economic policies, authoritarian policies, censorship, human rights abuse, trashing of its environment/food supplies/water supplies, is still standing. If you replace Community party with US or UK government, the same is also true.

nthcolumn 10y ago

But we won't all be "fed, clothed, housed, but simply bored.." we will be surplus to requirements. A comparatively tiny elite will own the robots to feed, clothe and house themselves and also to protect what they have from the horde. So no change there really.

crdoconnor 10y ago
>no change there really That's what this whole robot story is about. This is why Ball State University's oft-cited study 'accidentally' mathematically defined outsourcing as the same thing as automation. This tiny elite are trying to redirect the pitchforks at a comparatively pointless target (robots) away from the targets that are actually causing mass unemployment that they want to keep (outsourcing, austerity). It's a good way to quell incipient union action, too ("if we unionize, they'll only replace us with a robot...").
- nojvek 10y ago
  Who is to say that robots wont figure out us and keep us happy for their own agendas. I imagine a world where we've understood happiness at a fundamental level and how our body experiences it. The engagement and novelty of experiences are designed for every human to maximize their happiness, while minimizing resource consumption. Our robots working hard to make the world happier than its ever been, helping us live longer and explore the universe around us.

droopyEyelids 10y ago

Look back 40 years to see how the humans spirit dealt with Mao's china http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/maos-great-leap-forward-killed-45-million-in-four-years-2081630.html http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/m...

contingencies 10y ago
That was exactly my point - pretty well I'd say, 40 years later! I'm not championing countries here, but it's probably true to say that western views of Maoist China tend to lack breadth. For example I've personally video-interviewed people who had a great time being relocated for re-education in tropical paradise (despite the local ladies being off-limits), then spent years traveling around the country on the government's budget as lowly trade facilitators in the socialist planned economy! Besides, if we take China's cycle from wealthy and inward-looking to corrupt and despotic, through widespread opiate abuse (English-profiteering), war and revolution (Mao) to a complete social transformation (post-Mao), then isn't America at about opiate abuse, and due for a Mao? Oh wait, Trump... :)
- abiox 10y ago
  > due for a Mao depends on whether that includes 45 million or so dead, i guess.
  - halfdan 10y ago
    Do we count the millions that have already been killed by US fought wars overseas in the last decade or so? Do we count the gun deaths?
    - abiox 10y ago
      this notion doesn't seem relevant. how does this relate?

abiox 10y ago

> After all, on the grand scale of things, if we're all fed, clothed, housed, but simply bored... i think there's a likely middle stage of skyrocketing unemployment where nobody has a job to earn money to buy food, nor a robotic source of food. this could lead to some luddite-like activities. businesses will pursue anything that reduces quarterly or annual expenses, but too few look at the overarching social impact of their choices. especially with the rather brittle mantra that "new jobs will be created, they always are".

chii 10y ago
a business will externalise any cost it can. that's how it is with climate change, pollution, and social cost. it's only when the populus demand a price to be paid for these externalities, will it be accounted for in the bottom line.

mc32 10y ago

In some ways Japan may be addressing their demographic challenges in a way that works for Japan. For years the west (businesses, academia, think thanks) has tried to convince Japan they needed to open immigration to address low birth rates --however, given their aging population and the advances in robotics and automation, their holding back the popular tide might make their transition into automation easier as they are naturally drifting to an economy which needs fewer people... Much of the west would also have plateauing or decreasing populations if it were not for the importation of foreign populations. Even advanced economies will be unable to provide middle class lifestyles to everyone if most people are not being productive in some way. We may just have to get used to most people doing more with less. That might mean living healthy but more frugal and less consumerist lives.

crdoconnor 10y ago
All Japan needs to do is to raise wages and increase job security. It's the same problem the US has, they've just had it for longer. Japanese birth rates didn't fall because of some fundamental, immutable law of the universe.
istorical 10y ago
> Even advanced economies will be unable to provide middle class lifestyles to everyone if most people are not being productive in some way. This doesn't really make sense to me. If we look purely at the economy in terms of its inputs and outputs - in terms of goods and services - we won't suddenly have less goods and services. We'll have the same or more goods and services with lower costs (because robots will be cheaper than people - otherwise we'd just employ people). So you have the same end result (the goods and services) with less operating costs - seems to me like if you don't change anything you'd either 1) see business owners growing their share of wealth while the hordes of unemployed starve - or 2) you'd increase taxes and increase welfare spending and things would net out such that the average person's quality of life could be preserved. Of course, if you're argument assumes that we're hurtling straight towards option 1, then yeah that makes sense. But it doesn't mathematically make sense to me that automation _has_ to mean people become destitute.

kitschshrine 10y ago

> miracle of transformation that is modern China There's no miracle. It's merely the communist party stopping 40 years of criminal abuse of its own citizens, and deciding to rent them out for pennies to the foreign corporations, and making billions in the progress (then allowing its members to escape China with the money). The miracle actually is that Communist party, with its massive debt, crashing economic policies, authoritarian policies, censorship, human rights abuse, trashing of its environment/food supplies/water supplies, is still standing.

nojvek 10y ago
Do you ever see China becoming a democratic country? The few Chinese I know really respect their president and are quite happy with it. Also why would countries move to democracy when US (face of democracy) is turning out to be a bad example?
contingencies 10y ago
the communist party stopping 40 years of criminal abuse of its own citizens, and deciding to rent them out for pennies to the foreign corporations, and making billions in the progress (then allowing its members to escape China with the money). It is a fair point that a lot of stolen money escaped the country, though it's generally recognized that this process is slowing now. However, it is not fair to suggest that the Chinese government abused its citizens for personal profit when quite clearly the entire population has benefited greatly from the country's transition to widespread modern material wealth. The miracle actually is that Communist party, with its massive debt, crashing economic policies, authoritarian policies, censorship, human rights abuse, trashing of its environment/food supplies/water supplies, is still standing. If you replace Community party with US or UK government, the same is also true.