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Context, yes. They can tell me about how they are struggling to make ends meet because of their two car payments and interest only mortgage. That's totally the

by danjoc 10y ago

Context, yes. They can tell me about how they are struggling to make ends meet because of their two car payments and interest only mortgage. That's totally the same as having your kids die from diarrhea, because they get their drinking water straight out of a dirty river and you don't have access to simple medications.

eitally 10y ago
The problem is that in countries where you can survive on $2/day, you can also largely squat where you want and scrounge crude shelter whilst begging for food. You can't do any of that in California, in any reliable way... and in many parts of the state, $30k/yr just isn't enough to rent an apartment and cover the basics (food, transport, medical care). So yes, the poor in the US are both better and worse off than poor in the developing world.
- throwaway198743 10y ago
  Actually, $2/day is actually completely manageable in rural India. I mean you won't be eating fancy stuff, but you'd be nowhere as miserable as being alone/homeless in the US.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  Ya, the bottom in the developed world, and especially in California, is much higher. In china you can find a moldy room in an apartment building basement (no window!), or even sleep in the restaurant you are working in (many people live in their shops in Beijing, and I don't mean above them in something like an apartment!). For food, there are plenty of places that cut corners to keep costs down, you'll live but you might get cancer later. Pre-Katrina New Orleans was popular because survival was similarly cheap, not for the same quality of survival, but the bottom possible was lower.
- vacri 10y ago
  You've got a pretty stereotypical view of the developing world. Nevertheless, SF actually has pretty good services for the homeless. That's why there's a lot of homeless people there. Given also that the median black household income in California is $35k, it sounds like you can actually survive of $30k in Cali without your kids dying of dysentery. Alternatively, if you want to 'scrounge crude shelter', there's 11 million square miles of public land in California. In short, my eyes just about goggled out of my head when the response to "kids die from drinking dirty water" is "yeah, but they can live wherever they want".
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- danjoc 10y ago
  >in many parts of the state, $30k/yr just isn't enough to rent an apartment and cover the basics Oh no, I can't afford beach front property or a mansion in Beverly Hills on $30K a year? Poverty! http://www.apartmentcities.com/Los-Angeles-Apartments/Los-Angeles/Price-500/ http://www.apartmentcities.com/Los-Angeles-Apartments/Los-An... 15 pages under $500 in Los Angeles. >and worse off than poor in the developing world. So you won't mind moving there and living on a local salary, eh?
dikdik 10y ago
So all the improvements the US us made in standards of living was completely pointless? We just need to be better than dying from diarrhea from our drinking water, then fuck it we've accomplished everything! No reason to improve anymore. Comparing the US to India is fucking stupid.
- danjoc 10y ago
  Improvement isn't debt. Interest on debts is a direct transfer of wealth from the have-nots to the haves.
- dang 10y ago
  Would you please not comment like this here? If you have a substantive point, make it thoughtfully; if you don't, please don't post.
dang 10y ago
Please don't post flamewar comments to HN. "That's totally the same as having your kids die from diarrhea" is exactly the kind of argument we don't need.

by danjoc 10y ago

eitally 10y ago

The problem is that in countries where you can survive on $2/day, you can also largely squat where you want and scrounge crude shelter whilst begging for food. You can't do any of that in California, in any reliable way... and in many parts of the state, $30k/yr just isn't enough to rent an apartment and cover the basics (food, transport, medical care). So yes, the poor in the US are both better and worse off than poor in the developing world.

throwaway198743 10y ago
Actually, $2/day is actually completely manageable in rural India. I mean you won't be eating fancy stuff, but you'd be nowhere as miserable as being alone/homeless in the US.
seanmcdirmid 10y ago
Ya, the bottom in the developed world, and especially in California, is much higher. In china you can find a moldy room in an apartment building basement (no window!), or even sleep in the restaurant you are working in (many people live in their shops in Beijing, and I don't mean above them in something like an apartment!). For food, there are plenty of places that cut corners to keep costs down, you'll live but you might get cancer later. Pre-Katrina New Orleans was popular because survival was similarly cheap, not for the same quality of survival, but the bottom possible was lower.
vacri 10y ago
You've got a pretty stereotypical view of the developing world. Nevertheless, SF actually has pretty good services for the homeless. That's why there's a lot of homeless people there. Given also that the median black household income in California is $35k, it sounds like you can actually survive of $30k in Cali without your kids dying of dysentery. Alternatively, if you want to 'scrounge crude shelter', there's 11 million square miles of public land in California. In short, my eyes just about goggled out of my head when the response to "kids die from drinking dirty water" is "yeah, but they can live wherever they want".
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
danjoc 10y ago
>in many parts of the state, $30k/yr just isn't enough to rent an apartment and cover the basics Oh no, I can't afford beach front property or a mansion in Beverly Hills on $30K a year? Poverty! http://www.apartmentcities.com/Los-Angeles-Apartments/Los-Angeles/Price-500/ http://www.apartmentcities.com/Los-Angeles-Apartments/Los-An... 15 pages under $500 in Los Angeles. >and worse off than poor in the developing world. So you won't mind moving there and living on a local salary, eh?

dikdik 10y ago

So all the improvements the US us made in standards of living was completely pointless? We just need to be better than dying from diarrhea from our drinking water, then fuck it we've accomplished everything! No reason to improve anymore. Comparing the US to India is fucking stupid.

danjoc 10y ago
Improvement isn't debt. Interest on debts is a direct transfer of wealth from the have-nots to the haves.
dang 10y ago
Would you please not comment like this here? If you have a substantive point, make it thoughtfully; if you don't, please don't post.

dang 10y ago

Please don't post flamewar comments to HN. "That's totally the same as having your kids die from diarrhea" is exactly the kind of argument we don't need.