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BART's Warm Springs extension to open March 25th
- dmnd 10y ago> The gleaming new glass and white-painted-steel station sat finished but empty, disconnected from the rest of the BART system. Nevertheless, it was staffed with five station agents, two janitors and a train controller because of a quirk in the way BART schedules workers.
- idoh 10y ago5.4 miles, $890,000,000.
- theparanoid 10y agoPuts the staffing quirk in perspective.
- jeffdavis 10y agoDo infrastructure projects in the US cost more, or am I imagining it? Is it proportional to what the local population can pay or something? Anyone have an idea why or how it coild be fixed?
- ubernostrum 10y agoIt depends. When you hear about massive projects being done cheaper (especially in per-mile costs), often it's because the project isn't running through an established, densely-populated area. So what you end up getting is "cost of building in a wilderness" versus "cost of building in a dense established city". The latter is going to be more expensive.
- magila 10y agoThe BART extension is being built along an existing rail right-of-way for most of its distance so I'm not sure how much existing development can be blamed for the high cost.
- kalleboo 10y agoYou're right, Tokyo, Singapore, Seoul, they're not densely populated at all! Not to say there aren't valid reasons for some projects to be more expensive (especially when you're tunneling), but by all accounts the US manages to have outsized costs for pretty much any infrastructure project.
- mateo411 10y agoAre infrastructure projects a lot cheaper in Japan, South Korea and Singapore? I honestly don't know. I know they have better rail infrastructure, but those societies also pay higher taxes and make rail infrastructure a higher priority.
- narrator 10y agoThey have some pretty neat tech for building railroads fast in China: https://youtu.be/T7hdo9tL6u0?t=14 https://youtu.be/T7hdo9tL6u0?t=14
- pchristensen 10y agoYes, almost always, for a variety of reasons. See Pedestrian Observations by Alon Levy for the details. Here's a link to the "Construction Costs" category: https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/category/transportation/construction-costs/ https://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/category/transp...
- anewhnaccount2 10y agoCorruption.
- pkaye 10y agoAbout a mile of this is underground and went under a lake in Fremont. I don't know how much that adds to the cost of construction.
- dekhn 10y agoinfrastructure projects in the US tend to be really expensive and prone to cost explosions. There are a number of reasons for this- for example, the design of the terminal is absurdly overly done for what it needs to be. Another issue is regulations- we tend to build things to an absurd level of regulations. ANother issue can be environmental restrictions (these added significantly to the cost of extending BART to SFO), which are often used as obstructions to development in the Bay Area.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- pbreit 10y agoI'm trying to think how such a quirk would be worded?
- JamilD 10y agoThe BART union contract only allows employees to bid on station postings twice a year.
- donretag 10y agoIf there is such a scheduling quirk, where schedules are determined in advance, why is overtime such an issue with BART? If they can allocate overtime at the last schedule because of a need for more resource, surely they can do the opposite. But of course, the real answer is: unions.
- keithpeter 10y agoYes, that paragraph struck me as odd as well. I can handle the idea of a regular staff presence in an empty building to discourage vandalism &c but 5 staff on full time hours? Then again, the two year extra salary cost as a percentage of the contract cost is probably below rounding error.
- protomyth 10y agoValley Transportation Authority buses will not serve Warm Springs/South Fremont station Is there a reason for this?
- apsec112 10y agoMy guess is they're waiting on the Milpitas and Berryessa stations, which supposedly finish later this year.
- ts4z 10y agoVTA serves Santa Clara County and the station is in Alameda County; and the next BART station will connect with VTA's light rail and be next to a large transportation center.
- ZanyProgrammer 10y agoThey have inter county busses, just see Fremont BART.
- ts4z 10y agoSure, but given they are already planning on making massive changes to the bus schedule as well as light rail, might as well wait for BART to be in Milpitas before doing that, since it's supposed to be "this year".
- ZanyProgrammer 10y agoThe 180 series of busses served/serve Fremont BART (haven't lived in the Bay Area for a year).
- JamilD 10y agoThe VTA is undergoing a complete overhaul of their bus schedules [0], in anticipation of the Milpitas and Berryessa BART station openings, which will happen later this year. After that, there'll be express buses from both stations to Downtown San Jose, and, of course, existing connections to light rail. [0] http://nextnetwork.vta.org http://nextnetwork.vta.org
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- m-j-fox 10y agoI often go to work at a lab that is as close to the Warm Springs BART station as any business could be, but I will still drive because walkability is so bad it will still be a 15 minute walk. Maybe someday they will build something near these East Bay BART stations.
- JamilD 10y agoIn Santa Clara County they have a pretty strong vision for more transit-oriented development, for the Milpitas and Berryessa Stations [0]. We'll see if that actually happens though, it seems like a lot of those East Bay stations are just meant to be driven to. [0] http://www.vta.org/News-and-Media/Connect-with-VTA/Milpitas-Stands-Ground-on-Vision-for-a-Vibrant-Urban-BART-Station-Area http://www.vta.org/News-and-Media/Connect-with-VTA/Milpitas-...
- kkylin 10y agoThe Berryessa station, at least, should be bikable from a decently-sized residential area, not to mention reachable by light rail or bus. We'll see what people actually do.
- JamilD 10y agoIt'll also be nice if we see neighborhoods that pop up similar to what's on the Caltrain corridor, like in Burlingame or Mountain View. Really nice, walkable areas with lots of retail and housing.
- ben174 10y agoIt was great while it lasted. Living walking distance from Fremont station - end of the line - meant I could guarantee a seat on the train in the mornings. But now the train will be full by the time it gets to Fremont station if it is before 9am. On a positive note there will be far fewer people getting off at 5pm at the Fremont station and clogging up the escalators. Stand on the right, walk on the left, people!!
- emilyfm 10y agoHow high (long) are the escalators? Above 18.5 metres (60 feet in the US) it's more efficient to stand on both sides: http://www.citylab.com/commute/2016/01/subway-escalator-standing-study-tfl-london/424950/ http://www.citylab.com/commute/2016/01/subway-escalator-stan...
- donretag 10y agoIt is more efficient on average, but those that want to walk will be slowed down, while those willing to stand will be faster since the overcrowding will be reduce. However, if those that are not in a hurry and are willing to stand, they should simply deal with the overcrowding.
- Rapzid 10y agoI commuted from Dublin. ~7AM is last parking spot and the trains were standing room only when they pulled out. Felt sorry for everyone that boarded between there and Embarcadero.
- ulfw 10y agoAnd yet they are still running trains from the 1970s which appear to not have been cleaned (let alone been renovated) since.
- whoami2018 10y agoThey look like they haven't been, but they did get new seat covers over the last 2-3 years and they're getting new train cars.... any day now