13 ms·

The Windows 10 upgrade was officially free for a year to encourage people to upgrade, which they wouldn't normally do. Microsoft made Windows 10 exactly the sam

by scholia 10y ago

The Windows 10 upgrade was officially free for a year to encourage people to upgrade, which they wouldn't normally do. Microsoft made Windows 10 exactly the same as Mac OS, iOS or Android: you pay for it when you buy the hardware and the OS upgrades are free for the life of the device. Also, Microsoft is not currently monetizing users, except via Bing. Microsoft does almost no ad selling (it farmed ad sales out to AOL), and it's the opposite of Google. There's roughly a 95/5 split, but with Microsoft, it's more like 5% ad revenues. Unlike Google, Microsoft doesn't read any of your content (eg emails) for advertising purposes.

sangnoir 10y ago
> Also, Microsoft is not currently monetizing users, except via Bing I do not care if the ads in my file manager are free or paid for today. What reason do you have to believe the in-OS ad-delivery infrastructure that is currently operational will not be monetized? It's a reasonable extrapolation, especially given the following caption from the article "How can you tell this is an ad? The dollar sign is one clue."
greenhouse_gas 10y ago
But they could log your keystrokes. Honestly, I would rather the UPS read my postcards than my contractor keeping a camera in my house "to help them build houses better"
- krige 10y ago
  >could But do they?
  - greenhouse_gas 10y ago
    No idea, they don't detail what they send. The difference is that I don't have a freeing of privacy on a cloud (and especially here it's an automated computer program that's doing the reading, it's not that engineers are reading my emails).
  - TheRealDunkirk 10y ago
    Haven't all the revelations from corporations and government agencies flipped your switch yet? At this point, how would you NOT assume that everyone who can access your data is not benefiting from its use and/or sale? I'd flip the question: is there any organization who has access to your data that isn't mining it to use against you (by targeting you for marketing purposes) and/or selling it to other parties? In fact, I'd go on to say that this activity is now the #2 gross domestic product of the US, right behind "convenience."
phs318u 10y ago
I'm no expert here but this is contrary to the prevailing narrative. Can you link to any sources? Thanks. I should note that though I switched away from Windows back in 2001, I think they're definitely on the right track under Satya Nadella. I'm a big fan. It would have been very, very easy for Ballmer's successor to nail the lid shut on the coffin into which they were climbing. He's turning that around and winning fans along the way.
MereInterest 10y ago
My problem is that they are coupling security updates and user-interface updates. The fact that they were offering the switch to Windows 10 didn't make it something that I wanted. I can't stand the trend toward flat design. It was stupid with Windows 8, and I held out on Windows 7, hoping that 10 would bring some sense back to the interface. Instead, they doubled-down on the poor design, and I'm finding just how little I need to use Windows on a day-to-day basis, when Linux is becoming more and more user-friendly. Unfortunately, it does mean that I only have until 2020 to finish up my backlog of Windows-only video games, before the long-term support of Windows 7 runs out.
- orbitingpluto 10y ago
  This. The UI in Windows 10 is inconsistent and ever changing. Do you have to do something in the flat design portion or in the older Win7 style? It's akin to having to attempt to plug a USB2.0 cable into your computer three times. I'm so sick of the inconsistency of the GUI that I just pop open PowerShell and gwmi things I want to manipulate. One example is networking. I have a Windows 8 based tablet that I upgraded to 10. The networking is very iffy when rebooting and I often have to disable it and then re-enable the device in "Network and Sharing Center-->Change Adapter Settings". Trying to do this in the flat design way never works. Now what if I want to manage the list of WiFi networks or prioritize them? There use to be a link in the Network and Sharing Center in the bottom left. Once upon a time you could also click on the icon on your current active network which would then give you an option to manage.) That doesn't work for me anymore. I now have to do that in the flat design "Settings". I also had to go into the registry to get a full pop-up keyboard. The option to enable it was just greyed out. And upgrading to the Anniversary edition on this 32GB tablet required a full reinstall and very carefully timed insertions/removals of a USB hub. Upgrading to Win10 from Win8 actually shortened the OS support lifetime for many of the 32GB tablets. Continued Win10 support requires updating of Win10... Combine that with the Metro apps that I've paid money for just disappearing for good from my library, and I wonder why anyone puts up with this? It was actually easier to do the 32 bit Linux UEFI workaround than reinstalling the Win10 Anniversary update.
- _pmf_ 10y ago
  > when Linux is becoming more and more user-friendly I used Linux on the desktop from 2004 to 2008; I cannot stand it today.
userbinator 10y ago
"Microsoft made Windows 10 exactly the same as Mac OS, iOS or Android" ...which is precisely what a large portion of the userbase who chose Microsoft did not want. In fact the upgrade is still free through the "assistive technologies" loophole, which while MS has officially said they would close "very soon"... https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/4vmz19/regarding_using_assistive_technologies_to_upgrade/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/4vmz19/regarding... ...that was 7 months ago and yet the page is still up and AFAICS lets you download the upgrade installer. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/windows10upgrade https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/windows10upgra... (I have not tried actually running the installer, because I have no intention to deliberately use Windows 10.) Also, MS has posted the full ISOs for free download on their site, so if you're really desperate and know how, you could just download them and crack it yourself. That would be unheard of a few years ago. The general message seems to be louder than before, although it has been the same for many years: if you really don't want to pay for it, we still want you to use Windows 10.
- Kristine1975 10y ago
  >if you really don't want to pay for it, we still want you to use Windows 10. Hasn't that always been Microsoft's modus operandi? They could have cracked down on pirated versions of their software (Windows, Office), but they didn't because they knew that piracy helped in making their software the de-facto standard.
- scholia 10y ago
  > "Microsoft made Windows 10 exactly the same as Mac OS, iOS or Android" ...which is precisely what a large portion of the userbase who chose Microsoft did not want. Do you have any evidence that it's a large proportion of the user base? Windows 10 already makes up the majority of PC usage share in the USA and the UK (on Statcounter), and Microsoft says corporate adoption is at unprecedented levels for a new version of Windows. (Mostly pilots at this stage, obviously.) More people use Window 10 than have used all versions of Mac OS going back to 1984, and in its first month, it had more users than Linux got after 20-odd years. There are always hold-outs: I gather some people still cling to OS/2 and maybe even Amigas. There used to be a cult that said you'd have to prize XP out of their cold dead hands. However, the fact is that Windows 10 absolutely has to work for the US Defense Department (which is already switching to Windows 10), Bank of America and practically all the S&P500, so you can be confident that it will.

by scholia 10y ago

sangnoir 10y ago

> Also, Microsoft is not currently monetizing users, except via Bing I do not care if the ads in my file manager are free or paid for today. What reason do you have to believe the in-OS ad-delivery infrastructure that is currently operational will not be monetized? It's a reasonable extrapolation, especially given the following caption from the article "How can you tell this is an ad? The dollar sign is one clue."

greenhouse_gas 10y ago

But they could log your keystrokes. Honestly, I would rather the UPS read my postcards than my contractor keeping a camera in my house "to help them build houses better"

krige 10y ago
>could But do they?
- greenhouse_gas 10y ago
  No idea, they don't detail what they send. The difference is that I don't have a freeing of privacy on a cloud (and especially here it's an automated computer program that's doing the reading, it's not that engineers are reading my emails).
- TheRealDunkirk 10y ago
  Haven't all the revelations from corporations and government agencies flipped your switch yet? At this point, how would you NOT assume that everyone who can access your data is not benefiting from its use and/or sale? I'd flip the question: is there any organization who has access to your data that isn't mining it to use against you (by targeting you for marketing purposes) and/or selling it to other parties? In fact, I'd go on to say that this activity is now the #2 gross domestic product of the US, right behind "convenience."

phs318u 10y ago

I'm no expert here but this is contrary to the prevailing narrative. Can you link to any sources? Thanks. I should note that though I switched away from Windows back in 2001, I think they're definitely on the right track under Satya Nadella. I'm a big fan. It would have been very, very easy for Ballmer's successor to nail the lid shut on the coffin into which they were climbing. He's turning that around and winning fans along the way.

MereInterest 10y ago

My problem is that they are coupling security updates and user-interface updates. The fact that they were offering the switch to Windows 10 didn't make it something that I wanted. I can't stand the trend toward flat design. It was stupid with Windows 8, and I held out on Windows 7, hoping that 10 would bring some sense back to the interface. Instead, they doubled-down on the poor design, and I'm finding just how little I need to use Windows on a day-to-day basis, when Linux is becoming more and more user-friendly. Unfortunately, it does mean that I only have until 2020 to finish up my backlog of Windows-only video games, before the long-term support of Windows 7 runs out.

orbitingpluto 10y ago
This. The UI in Windows 10 is inconsistent and ever changing. Do you have to do something in the flat design portion or in the older Win7 style? It's akin to having to attempt to plug a USB2.0 cable into your computer three times. I'm so sick of the inconsistency of the GUI that I just pop open PowerShell and gwmi things I want to manipulate. One example is networking. I have a Windows 8 based tablet that I upgraded to 10. The networking is very iffy when rebooting and I often have to disable it and then re-enable the device in "Network and Sharing Center-->Change Adapter Settings". Trying to do this in the flat design way never works. Now what if I want to manage the list of WiFi networks or prioritize them? There use to be a link in the Network and Sharing Center in the bottom left. Once upon a time you could also click on the icon on your current active network which would then give you an option to manage.) That doesn't work for me anymore. I now have to do that in the flat design "Settings". I also had to go into the registry to get a full pop-up keyboard. The option to enable it was just greyed out. And upgrading to the Anniversary edition on this 32GB tablet required a full reinstall and very carefully timed insertions/removals of a USB hub. Upgrading to Win10 from Win8 actually shortened the OS support lifetime for many of the 32GB tablets. Continued Win10 support requires updating of Win10... Combine that with the Metro apps that I've paid money for just disappearing for good from my library, and I wonder why anyone puts up with this? It was actually easier to do the 32 bit Linux UEFI workaround than reinstalling the Win10 Anniversary update.
_pmf_ 10y ago
> when Linux is becoming more and more user-friendly I used Linux on the desktop from 2004 to 2008; I cannot stand it today.

userbinator 10y ago

"Microsoft made Windows 10 exactly the same as Mac OS, iOS or Android" ...which is precisely what a large portion of the userbase who chose Microsoft did not want. In fact the upgrade is still free through the "assistive technologies" loophole, which while MS has officially said they would close "very soon"... https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/4vmz19/regarding_using_assistive_technologies_to_upgrade/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/4vmz19/regarding... ...that was 7 months ago and yet the page is still up and AFAICS lets you download the upgrade installer. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/windows10upgrade https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/windows10upgra... (I have not tried actually running the installer, because I have no intention to deliberately use Windows 10.) Also, MS has posted the full ISOs for free download on their site, so if you're really desperate and know how, you could just download them and crack it yourself. That would be unheard of a few years ago. The general message seems to be louder than before, although it has been the same for many years: if you really don't want to pay for it, we still want you to use Windows 10.

Kristine1975 10y ago
>if you really don't want to pay for it, we still want you to use Windows 10. Hasn't that always been Microsoft's modus operandi? They could have cracked down on pirated versions of their software (Windows, Office), but they didn't because they knew that piracy helped in making their software the de-facto standard.
scholia 10y ago
> "Microsoft made Windows 10 exactly the same as Mac OS, iOS or Android" ...which is precisely what a large portion of the userbase who chose Microsoft did not want. Do you have any evidence that it's a large proportion of the user base? Windows 10 already makes up the majority of PC usage share in the USA and the UK (on Statcounter), and Microsoft says corporate adoption is at unprecedented levels for a new version of Windows. (Mostly pilots at this stage, obviously.) More people use Window 10 than have used all versions of Mac OS going back to 1984, and in its first month, it had more users than Linux got after 20-odd years. There are always hold-outs: I gather some people still cling to OS/2 and maybe even Amigas. There used to be a cult that said you'd have to prize XP out of their cold dead hands. However, the fact is that Windows 10 absolutely has to work for the US Defense Department (which is already switching to Windows 10), Bank of America and practically all the S&P500, so you can be confident that it will.