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For what it's worth, as recently as early 17th century England did not have coffee. If you grant that the difference in caffeine between coffee and tea is signi
by srcreigh 10y ago
For what it's worth, as recently as early 17th century England did not have coffee. If you grant that the difference in caffeine between coffee and tea is significant, then we can conclude that Western Europe must have received those benefits only by the 1650's - 1700's.
Source:
25. The Turks use likewise a kind of herb, called " coffee,"
which they dry, grind to powder, and drink in warm water. They affirm
that it gives no small vigour both to their courage and their wit.
Yet this taken in large quantities will excite and disturb the mind;
which shows it to be of a similar nature to opiates.
from Francis Bacon in The History of Life and Death, published in 1638 posthumously. You can read the full work here: http://www.sirbacon.org/historylifedeath.htm http://www.sirbacon.org/historylifedeath.htm
- BurningFrog 10y agoThe Industrial Revolution started around 1760 in Britain, so the timeline looks plausible.
- taway_1212 10y agoThe Turks already had coffee, so why the industrial revolution didn't start there earlier?
- marcosdumay 10y agoHow was Turkish astronomy at the time? Physics were a great enabler of machine building.
- taway_1212 10y agoWas it? I was under impression that a lot of it was trial and error by tinkerers (Edison-style, but a couple centuries earlier). For example, was there that much (or any, for that matter) physics in the invention of the loom?
- marcosdumay 10y agoOn the invention, not that much. On the mass production, yes, a lot. The Wealth of Nations has some interesting anecdotes about Newton's work helping industries. (But it's been a long time since I've read it, so no pointers.)
- kedean 10y agoI'd say the clear answer is that we can't boil down entire world movements to a single factor.
- BurningFrog 10y agoMost of the rest Europe also had coffee when Britain had it, so why didn't they also start it? I'm far from an expert on this history, but I have read that Britain probably got there first because of institutions that favored free enterprise, such as rule of law and private property rights. I'm guessing Turkey did not score as highly on those measures.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- lostlogin 10y agoI'm no authority but I wonder if he is misunderstanding Turkish coffee (especially as they left sacks of beans behind at Vienna not too much later). Turkish coffee sometimes has ground up herbs added to it, which could cause confusion to the observer? There is a pretty well documented use of coffee beans in Turkish coffee earlier than the date you cite, so I wonder what is going on? Everyone favourite source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_coffee https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_coffee
- jessaustin 10y agoBacon used here a more expansive definition of "herb": "a plant derivative that has flavor" rather than "something you'll find in your spice rack". The fact that coffee comes from beans wasn't relevant to his argument.
- lostlogin 10y agoThanks, I miss read that as calling something else coffee.