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Until this is treated like the public epidemic it is, and promote education, this will only get worse. Calories in - calories out = fat accumulation. It is lit

Until this is treated like the public epidemic it is, and promote education, this will only get worse. Calories in - calories out = fat accumulation. It is literally that simple.

devoply 10y ago
Education does not work. Mexico has shown that regulation does work, they regulated sugar which has had a positive effect on health. The food industry needs to be regulated. The few conglomerates are engineering unhealthy people. It's that simple. There is very little actual food choice because the market optimizes for profits, not for health. In order to give health a fighting chance you need to regulate the market to change the game. Food is an addictive drug, we regulate all other addictive drugs. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/nov/03/obese-soda-sugar-tax-mexico https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/nov/03/obese-soda-suga...
- TezlaKoil 10y ago
  > There is very little actual food choice because the market optimizes for profits, not for health. Hold on! The market consists of both suppliers and customer. One would think that being fat is not profitable for the latter. Meanwhile, only 3% of Japanese people have a BMI over 30, while 32% of Americans do. It must be that Japanese markets don't optimize for profit! Or maybe you got the source of the problem wrong. Guess which one I think it is. > Mexico has shown that regulation does work, they regulated sugar which has had a positive effect on health. Hungary has a higher sugar tax, had it for a longer time, and it appears to have no effect on health at all. Go figure.
Terr_ 10y ago
> promote education IMO it's not so much about education as about how to help people shape their habits. People already know that candy-bars and french-fries correlate to obesity, after all. > that simple Or at least, so close to being that simple that there's no point confusing people with erroneous details. https://xkcd.com/669/ https://xkcd.com/669/
wavefunction 10y ago
You're of course leaving out the complexity in how "Calories in" and "calories out" are derived for individuals. Some people consume too much calorically as a mental-health coping mechanism. Some people consume too much calorically because the food culture they were raised in promotes that. Some people consume too much calorically because they have a lack of real options to purchase fresh whole foods. Some people don't expend enough calories because their lifestyle makes it difficult (work + family + etc). Some people don't expend enough calories because the lifestyle they were raised with doesn't promote that. These are just some of the ways that simple equation you've posted become immediately more complex.
- DoodleBuggy 10y ago
  Every complexity you posted still comes down to consuming more calories than is needed. The reality is the vast majority of people eat way too much, and the dietary guidelines for caloric intake are far too high for a largely sedentary society.
  - lucidguppy 10y ago
    It's easier to eat fewer calories when the foods you eat are high in water and fiber content. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CdwWliv7Hg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CdwWliv7Hg
  - lacampbell 10y ago
    That's one of the things you really have to accept if you want to lose weight - yes you will have to eat less, and yes you will feel hungry a lot.
    - montecarl 10y ago
      I do not want to sound like I am arguing with you for the sake of arguing, but I have lost weight and several of my friends and family have lost weight without feeling hungry by switching to a low carb (ketogenic) diet. It was so crazy to eat mostly fatty food and green vegetables and lose weight very quickly. One major thing I noticed was how much longer I was able to go without eating on this diet without feeling hungry. I used to feel very ill if I did not eat at least 3 meals at day. I can now, if I choose, eat a snack in the early afternoon and then eat dinner and feel fine (1.5 meals instead of 3).
lucidguppy 10y ago
CICO isn't very useful because all diets that are successful are CICO. It's like saying space travel is simply applying enough force in the right direction. Logging and limiting calories isn't the only way to achieve CICO.
DoodleBuggy 10y ago
> Calories in - calories out = fat accumulation. It is literally that simple. It's literally the first law of thermodynamics. Everyone tries to over complicate things, but the reality is if you eat more calories than you burn, you will become fat.
- MattRix 10y ago
  Yes, but it's a gross oversimplification! If I asked you "what's the secret to getting rich?" and you said "earn more than you spend", it would be true, but it wouldn't be very helpful. The fact is that different calories affect our brains differently. Some cause us to crave more food, some cause us to feel satiated, etc. I hate this modern trend of saying "calories in vs calories out" as if it's a magic cure.
  - angry-hacker 10y ago
    Modern trend is to deny simple physics. Of course some people are more addicted to food than others, some eat more healthy than others. But the solution nevertheless is the same.
  - scotty79 10y ago
    > "earn more than you spend", it would be true, but it wouldn't be very helpful. It's actually very helpful advice but only if you are able to realize that's the only way you can predictably get rich through. Most people choose to rather belive that they are spending not more than they believe they should or must and will not always look for new job that pays more, and instead believe that they can get rich by using tricks or will surely have some lucky break. Same with weight loss. Calories in, calories out is a magic cure for many people but only if they are grounded enough in reality of what they can be sure about, to accept it.
matz1 10y ago
yea but the implementation is extremely hard.
nothrabannosir 10y ago
Yes, and reality is just an application of the universal wave function. Just derive your diet from that. Claiming "calories in calories out end of story" is like saying "the solution to aids and unwanted pregnancies is condoms." People are still getting HIV and unwanted pregnancies, and most of them know about condoms. What gives? "The solution" doesn't take into account we are mammals with millions of years of evolutionary programming driving our every action. Honestly, ending conversations because of CICO prevents people from exploring the real problem. It's counter productive. Please take a moment and listen.
LyndsySimon 10y ago
> Calories in - calories out = fat accumulation. It is literally that simple. That is a gross oversimplification. Countless people, including myself, on ketogenic diets can attest to that.
trillf0rd 10y ago
Calorie balance certainly matters but it is not that simple. Most leading health research institutions believe dietary quality plays a major part in health and weight management. Certain foods are associated with patterns of overeating. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/best-diet-quality-counts/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/best-diet-quali... The average American diet has changed dramatically in the last century with the growth of the restaurant and food processing industry. Exercise participation has actually increased substantially in the last 20 years (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/2015/057.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/2015/057.pdf) in the same time period obesity has soared. Energy balance being responsible for weight gain is too readily used by the food processing industry in an effort to shift away blame for this epidemic. A few instances: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/12/obesity-exercise-energy-balance http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/12/obesity-exercise... http://www.cbsnews.com/news/good-news-pepsicos-indra-nooyi-solves-the-obesity-crisis/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/good-news-pepsicos-indra-nooyi-s... http://blogs.plos.org/speakingofmedicine/2012/07/05/is-obesity-simply-about-a-lack-of-balance-why-big-food-wants-you-to-be-fit/ http://blogs.plos.org/speakingofmedicine/2012/07/05/is-obesi... https://therussells.crossfit.com/2015/09/23/transparency-coca-cola-reveals-acsm-payments-hides-others/ https://therussells.crossfit.com/2015/09/23/transparency-coc...
Jach 10y ago
∇ F = J/(c є0) It's literally just that simple too. Unfortunately this isn't good advice for a fat person trying to lose weight. Even a very low IQ fat person understands that if they eat less and move more they'll lose weight. Nor is it particularly good advice for trying to craft a top-down policy unless the intention is to force people to eat a certain amount only and burn a minimum amount of energy.
prostoalex 10y ago
Show me a study with a large control group where this was proven true for 100% of participants. At best the results range from "inconclusive" or "wide variation" to "they tried to expend more calories via exercise and gained weight, oopsie" https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/11/12/exercising-but-gaining-weight/ https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/11/12/exercising-but-gai...
- scotty79 10y ago
  Excercise doesn't do much for you when it comes to weight loss. You have to run excessive distances to burn food that'll take you just a moment to simply not eat.
  - prostoalex 10y ago
    If cutting food was the answer, then fasting would be a conclusive answer to weight loss. It's not. All the obese people you see walking around are not suffering from a lack of willpower to go on a fasting diet. All the thin people you see walking around are not meticulously tracking their calorie intake and burn.
    - scotty79 10y ago
      All the pepole that are consistently eating 1500-1800 calories per day and are not bedridden are loosing weight and getting thin or less fat regardless of calorie counting and willpower. There are people who eat more and still are thin but if you are not one of those people they should be none of your concern similarily to how people who inherited wealth - what they do - is meningless for person that was born poor, is poor and wants to get bit richer. And fasting is conclusive anwer to weight loss if you can enforce it. If you were in charge of getting inmate less fat that's exactly what you would order and he'd loose weight. The problem with fasting in real world is that weight loss is not the only thing it affects end you can't ignore the side effects like you could do with an inmate.

Until this is treated like the public epidemic it is, and promote education, this will only get worse. Calories in - calories out = fat accumulation. It is literally that simple.

devoply 10y ago

Education does not work. Mexico has shown that regulation does work, they regulated sugar which has had a positive effect on health. The food industry needs to be regulated. The few conglomerates are engineering unhealthy people. It's that simple. There is very little actual food choice because the market optimizes for profits, not for health. In order to give health a fighting chance you need to regulate the market to change the game. Food is an addictive drug, we regulate all other addictive drugs. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/nov/03/obese-soda-sugar-tax-mexico https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/nov/03/obese-soda-suga...

TezlaKoil 10y ago
> There is very little actual food choice because the market optimizes for profits, not for health. Hold on! The market consists of both suppliers and customer. One would think that being fat is not profitable for the latter. Meanwhile, only 3% of Japanese people have a BMI over 30, while 32% of Americans do. It must be that Japanese markets don't optimize for profit! Or maybe you got the source of the problem wrong. Guess which one I think it is. > Mexico has shown that regulation does work, they regulated sugar which has had a positive effect on health. Hungary has a higher sugar tax, had it for a longer time, and it appears to have no effect on health at all. Go figure.

Terr_ 10y ago

> promote education IMO it's not so much about education as about how to help people shape their habits. People already know that candy-bars and french-fries correlate to obesity, after all. > that simple Or at least, so close to being that simple that there's no point confusing people with erroneous details. https://xkcd.com/669/ https://xkcd.com/669/

wavefunction 10y ago

You're of course leaving out the complexity in how "Calories in" and "calories out" are derived for individuals. Some people consume too much calorically as a mental-health coping mechanism. Some people consume too much calorically because the food culture they were raised in promotes that. Some people consume too much calorically because they have a lack of real options to purchase fresh whole foods. Some people don't expend enough calories because their lifestyle makes it difficult (work + family + etc). Some people don't expend enough calories because the lifestyle they were raised with doesn't promote that. These are just some of the ways that simple equation you've posted become immediately more complex.

DoodleBuggy 10y ago
Every complexity you posted still comes down to consuming more calories than is needed. The reality is the vast majority of people eat way too much, and the dietary guidelines for caloric intake are far too high for a largely sedentary society.
- lucidguppy 10y ago
  It's easier to eat fewer calories when the foods you eat are high in water and fiber content. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CdwWliv7Hg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CdwWliv7Hg
- lacampbell 10y ago
  That's one of the things you really have to accept if you want to lose weight - yes you will have to eat less, and yes you will feel hungry a lot.
  - montecarl 10y ago
    I do not want to sound like I am arguing with you for the sake of arguing, but I have lost weight and several of my friends and family have lost weight without feeling hungry by switching to a low carb (ketogenic) diet. It was so crazy to eat mostly fatty food and green vegetables and lose weight very quickly. One major thing I noticed was how much longer I was able to go without eating on this diet without feeling hungry. I used to feel very ill if I did not eat at least 3 meals at day. I can now, if I choose, eat a snack in the early afternoon and then eat dinner and feel fine (1.5 meals instead of 3).

lucidguppy 10y ago

CICO isn't very useful because all diets that are successful are CICO. It's like saying space travel is simply applying enough force in the right direction. Logging and limiting calories isn't the only way to achieve CICO.

DoodleBuggy 10y ago

> Calories in - calories out = fat accumulation. It is literally that simple. It's literally the first law of thermodynamics. Everyone tries to over complicate things, but the reality is if you eat more calories than you burn, you will become fat.

MattRix 10y ago
Yes, but it's a gross oversimplification! If I asked you "what's the secret to getting rich?" and you said "earn more than you spend", it would be true, but it wouldn't be very helpful. The fact is that different calories affect our brains differently. Some cause us to crave more food, some cause us to feel satiated, etc. I hate this modern trend of saying "calories in vs calories out" as if it's a magic cure.
- angry-hacker 10y ago
  Modern trend is to deny simple physics. Of course some people are more addicted to food than others, some eat more healthy than others. But the solution nevertheless is the same.
- scotty79 10y ago
  > "earn more than you spend", it would be true, but it wouldn't be very helpful. It's actually very helpful advice but only if you are able to realize that's the only way you can predictably get rich through. Most people choose to rather belive that they are spending not more than they believe they should or must and will not always look for new job that pays more, and instead believe that they can get rich by using tricks or will surely have some lucky break. Same with weight loss. Calories in, calories out is a magic cure for many people but only if they are grounded enough in reality of what they can be sure about, to accept it.

matz1 10y ago

yea but the implementation is extremely hard.

nothrabannosir 10y ago

Yes, and reality is just an application of the universal wave function. Just derive your diet from that. Claiming "calories in calories out end of story" is like saying "the solution to aids and unwanted pregnancies is condoms." People are still getting HIV and unwanted pregnancies, and most of them know about condoms. What gives? "The solution" doesn't take into account we are mammals with millions of years of evolutionary programming driving our every action. Honestly, ending conversations because of CICO prevents people from exploring the real problem. It's counter productive. Please take a moment and listen.

LyndsySimon 10y ago

> Calories in - calories out = fat accumulation. It is literally that simple. That is a gross oversimplification. Countless people, including myself, on ketogenic diets can attest to that.

trillf0rd 10y ago

Calorie balance certainly matters but it is not that simple. Most leading health research institutions believe dietary quality plays a major part in health and weight management. Certain foods are associated with patterns of overeating. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/best-diet-quality-counts/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/best-diet-quali... The average American diet has changed dramatically in the last century with the growth of the restaurant and food processing industry. Exercise participation has actually increased substantially in the last 20 years (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/2015/057.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/2015/057.pdf) in the same time period obesity has soared. Energy balance being responsible for weight gain is too readily used by the food processing industry in an effort to shift away blame for this epidemic. A few instances: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/12/obesity-exercise-energy-balance http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/12/obesity-exercise... http://www.cbsnews.com/news/good-news-pepsicos-indra-nooyi-solves-the-obesity-crisis/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/good-news-pepsicos-indra-nooyi-s... http://blogs.plos.org/speakingofmedicine/2012/07/05/is-obesity-simply-about-a-lack-of-balance-why-big-food-wants-you-to-be-fit/ http://blogs.plos.org/speakingofmedicine/2012/07/05/is-obesi... https://therussells.crossfit.com/2015/09/23/transparency-coca-cola-reveals-acsm-payments-hides-others/ https://therussells.crossfit.com/2015/09/23/transparency-coc...

Jach 10y ago

∇ F = J/(c є0) It's literally just that simple too. Unfortunately this isn't good advice for a fat person trying to lose weight. Even a very low IQ fat person understands that if they eat less and move more they'll lose weight. Nor is it particularly good advice for trying to craft a top-down policy unless the intention is to force people to eat a certain amount only and burn a minimum amount of energy.

prostoalex 10y ago

Show me a study with a large control group where this was proven true for 100% of participants. At best the results range from "inconclusive" or "wide variation" to "they tried to expend more calories via exercise and gained weight, oopsie" https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/11/12/exercising-but-gaining-weight/ https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/11/12/exercising-but-gai...

scotty79 10y ago
Excercise doesn't do much for you when it comes to weight loss. You have to run excessive distances to burn food that'll take you just a moment to simply not eat.
- prostoalex 10y ago
  If cutting food was the answer, then fasting would be a conclusive answer to weight loss. It's not. All the obese people you see walking around are not suffering from a lack of willpower to go on a fasting diet. All the thin people you see walking around are not meticulously tracking their calorie intake and burn.
  - scotty79 10y ago
    All the pepole that are consistently eating 1500-1800 calories per day and are not bedridden are loosing weight and getting thin or less fat regardless of calorie counting and willpower. There are people who eat more and still are thin but if you are not one of those people they should be none of your concern similarily to how people who inherited wealth - what they do - is meningless for person that was born poor, is poor and wants to get bit richer. And fasting is conclusive anwer to weight loss if you can enforce it. If you were in charge of getting inmate less fat that's exactly what you would order and he'd loose weight. The problem with fasting in real world is that weight loss is not the only thing it affects end you can't ignore the side effects like you could do with an inmate.