5 ms·

Is Facebook your neighbor? Are you sure? How long do you spend talking to your neighbor each day?

by yarrel 10y ago

sillysaurus3 10y ago
It's always been true that you have to watch what you say when you're in public. Even still, you're free to criticize the government as much as you want on Facebook. Not so in a surveillance state.
- bdamm 10y ago
  Not true. US citizens may criticize the US government, but it is illegal for work visa holders (such as H1B holders) to protest or criticize the US government. Thus, an H1B holder in the US may need to remove from Facebook any friends who become protestors in case they are asked to hand over their phone at a border crossing. This represents a material loss to Americans in the Facebook context.
  - WillPostForFood 10y ago
    Not true. US citizens may criticize the US government, but it is illegal for work visa holders (such as H1B holders) to protest or criticize the US government. That is absolutely 100% false. There is no law or regulation that prohibits anyone, including work visa holders, from criticizing the government. I'm floored someone would even think that. I'm honestly curious what led you to believe that?
    - harigov 10y ago
      There need not be a law. The simple fact that US CBP can (and did) ask you to open your social media accounts and browse through implies that what you post on social media can act against you.
      - WillPostForFood 10y ago
        We are not talking about Customs and Border protection, we are talking about speech rights for legal residents already in the US. Citizens and non-citizens can get screwed entering the country.
    - bdamm 10y ago
      Because until recently I was an H1B holder and was specifically ordered to not take part in any protest as part of the fine print in the visa. One of the luxuries granted to a green card holder is the privilege to protest (and fund politicians.). Also, immigrants (green card or not) may not "undermine the US government", whatever that means. This is attested to during the immigration interviews.
      - WillPostForFood 10y ago
        There is a big difference between sedition (undermining the govt), and not being able to "criticize the government." Perhaps there is some nuance there that confuses H1Bs for whom English isn't their first language.
        bdamm 10y ago
        The point is that the interpretation is up for significant abuse.
    - bigbugbag 10y ago
      I don't know about this matter in the US, but it seems to me there is no need for law a regulation to revoke a visa arbitrarily. There are countless reports of this kind of thing happening at the border, some have even been confronted to screenshots of their private facebook messaging.
  - outworlder 10y ago
    I don't recall this particular rule. Not saying that you are not correct, but sources would be helpful. I wouldn't be surprised if that were there, there are all sorts of silly rules for visas, specially work-related ones. Now, even if it's not illegal, I'd say it's _unwise_. Leave the protesting to US citizens, as they are afforded more protections.
- isaacremuant 10y ago
  But if you're effective in that criticism you'll get harassed or attacked. See Jacob Applebaum, Laura Poitras, Glenn Greenwald among others. Journalists, filmmakers, programmers, doesn't matter. The point is that if you don't move enough, you won't really notice the chains.
- bigbugbag 10y ago
  You got your definition of a surveillance state wrong. > A surveillance state is a country where the government engages in pervasive surveillance of large numbers of its citizens and visitors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance#Surveillance_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance#Surveillance... Ever heard of Snowden instantly stopping the conspiracy theory accusation by releasing internal document showing it was actually happening ? Surveillance state is not about what you are able to post on facebook. The modern surveillance state welcomes this kind of public posting, it provides data for behavior control through behavioral prediction and modification.

Is Facebook your neighbor? Are you sure? How long do you spend talking to your neighbor each day?

by yarrel 10y ago

Is Facebook your neighbor? Are you sure? How long do you spend talking to your neighbor each day?

It's always been true that you have to watch what you say when you're in public. Even still, you're free to criticize the government as much as you want on Facebook. Not so in a surveillance state.

bdamm 10y ago
Not true. US citizens may criticize the US government, but it is illegal for work visa holders (such as H1B holders) to protest or criticize the US government. Thus, an H1B holder in the US may need to remove from Facebook any friends who become protestors in case they are asked to hand over their phone at a border crossing. This represents a material loss to Americans in the Facebook context.
- WillPostForFood 10y ago
  Not true. US citizens may criticize the US government, but it is illegal for work visa holders (such as H1B holders) to protest or criticize the US government. That is absolutely 100% false. There is no law or regulation that prohibits anyone, including work visa holders, from criticizing the government. I'm floored someone would even think that. I'm honestly curious what led you to believe that?
  - harigov 10y ago
    There need not be a law. The simple fact that US CBP can (and did) ask you to open your social media accounts and browse through implies that what you post on social media can act against you.
    - WillPostForFood 10y ago
      We are not talking about Customs and Border protection, we are talking about speech rights for legal residents already in the US. Citizens and non-citizens can get screwed entering the country.
  - bdamm 10y ago
    Because until recently I was an H1B holder and was specifically ordered to not take part in any protest as part of the fine print in the visa. One of the luxuries granted to a green card holder is the privilege to protest (and fund politicians.). Also, immigrants (green card or not) may not "undermine the US government", whatever that means. This is attested to during the immigration interviews.
    - WillPostForFood 10y ago
      There is a big difference between sedition (undermining the govt), and not being able to "criticize the government." Perhaps there is some nuance there that confuses H1Bs for whom English isn't their first language.
      - bdamm 10y ago
        The point is that the interpretation is up for significant abuse.
  - bigbugbag 10y ago
    I don't know about this matter in the US, but it seems to me there is no need for law a regulation to revoke a visa arbitrarily. There are countless reports of this kind of thing happening at the border, some have even been confronted to screenshots of their private facebook messaging.
- outworlder 10y ago
  I don't recall this particular rule. Not saying that you are not correct, but sources would be helpful. I wouldn't be surprised if that were there, there are all sorts of silly rules for visas, specially work-related ones. Now, even if it's not illegal, I'd say it's _unwise_. Leave the protesting to US citizens, as they are afforded more protections.
isaacremuant 10y ago
But if you're effective in that criticism you'll get harassed or attacked. See Jacob Applebaum, Laura Poitras, Glenn Greenwald among others. Journalists, filmmakers, programmers, doesn't matter. The point is that if you don't move enough, you won't really notice the chains.
bigbugbag 10y ago
You got your definition of a surveillance state wrong. > A surveillance state is a country where the government engages in pervasive surveillance of large numbers of its citizens and visitors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance#Surveillance_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance#Surveillance... Ever heard of Snowden instantly stopping the conspiracy theory accusation by releasing internal document showing it was actually happening ? Surveillance state is not about what you are able to post on facebook. The modern surveillance state welcomes this kind of public posting, it provides data for behavior control through behavioral prediction and modification.