5 ms·

Great to see more chatbots that encourage real world civic action, not just make it easier to order pizza. I did similar work with Hello.Vote for voter registr

by jlev 10y ago

Great to see more chatbots that encourage real world civic action, not just make it easier to order pizza. I did similar work with Hello.Vote for voter registration, and there are so many offline forms that could be improved with a bit of web/messaging UI. Also see snapfresh.org for a CfA project that helps find places that accept EBT cards.

ending 10y ago
Awesome projects, and I love the civic spirit from which they arise. Any others worth checking out? Other than chat bots, just making forms and bureaucratic processes more accessible online seems like an arena that still has vast potential for improvement.
ptaipale 10y ago
Not sure if this is actual "civic action". At least if this is deployed in Europe, it sounds to me more like a deliberate action to completely destroy what remains of the asylum system, which is already struggling both technically and with its political and popular support, due to the large number of applicants who are economic migrants rather than actual refugees. It may be different with U.S. and Canada, though - things are a bit easier when asylum applicants are not coming over unguarded land borders. (FWIW, I've assisted an immigrant, an old woman, in composing her complaint to the national courts and ECHR. The system is rigged against honest applicants because of the overload caused by more or less frivolous cases. We lost, too, technically, but she was in too bad shape to be deported so eventually got permission to stay.)
- taurath 10y ago
  Capital flows completely freely between borders, but people can't. I don't really blame anyone for being economic migrants - they're just refugees of a different type.
  - ptaipale 10y ago
    Of course I don't blame anyone for being an economic migrant. It's a very natural thing to do: search for a better life. It's what I would do. Economic and technical development has progressed in Africa and Asia so that larger numbers of people than ever are able to consider migration. We see that now on the Libyan coast. However, particularly for European governments, it's now becoming visible that there is a selection to be made: you can have completely open borders, or you can have a welfare state, but you can't have both.
    - stuaxo 10y ago
      On the one hand we're told to better ourselves. On the other people are villanised for being economic migrants.
      - jimmyk 10y ago
        What should happen when there is a conflict between Europeans "bettering themselves" and economic migrants "bettering themselves"? Would you like to see Europeans roll over and ignore their own economic interests? Or do you believe no such conflict is possible? Does bettering oneself mean the same thing for economic migrants as it does for Europeans, in your mind? I gather from your comment that it means "attaining greater material wealth" for economic migrants. What does it mean for Europeans? Does it mean sharing their material wealth with the less fortunate, at their expense and the expense of their progeny?
        ptaipale 10y ago
        Property and wealth are significant issues, but surely not the only things, and possibly not the most significant things. Safety, security and national and ethnic identity are also important to people. If I live in a country and city where my ethnicity and language are the majority, do I want them to become a minority, and do I want to adapt to culture of newcomers?
    - taurath 10y ago
      Absolutely true - if given the choice, most anyone would rather live in France than war torn Somalia. And given altruism doesn't work particularly well in unstable countries the current system is definitely in a bad state. Borders will have to be closed, as they marginally are now.
  - jimmyk 10y ago
    You don't have to blame someone for wanting to do something in order to not let them do it.
  - AtheistOfFail 10y ago
    Yeah, but capital has lobbyists.

by jlev 10y ago

ending 10y ago

Awesome projects, and I love the civic spirit from which they arise. Any others worth checking out? Other than chat bots, just making forms and bureaucratic processes more accessible online seems like an arena that still has vast potential for improvement.

ptaipale 10y ago

Not sure if this is actual "civic action". At least if this is deployed in Europe, it sounds to me more like a deliberate action to completely destroy what remains of the asylum system, which is already struggling both technically and with its political and popular support, due to the large number of applicants who are economic migrants rather than actual refugees. It may be different with U.S. and Canada, though - things are a bit easier when asylum applicants are not coming over unguarded land borders. (FWIW, I've assisted an immigrant, an old woman, in composing her complaint to the national courts and ECHR. The system is rigged against honest applicants because of the overload caused by more or less frivolous cases. We lost, too, technically, but she was in too bad shape to be deported so eventually got permission to stay.)

taurath 10y ago
Capital flows completely freely between borders, but people can't. I don't really blame anyone for being economic migrants - they're just refugees of a different type.
- ptaipale 10y ago
  Of course I don't blame anyone for being an economic migrant. It's a very natural thing to do: search for a better life. It's what I would do. Economic and technical development has progressed in Africa and Asia so that larger numbers of people than ever are able to consider migration. We see that now on the Libyan coast. However, particularly for European governments, it's now becoming visible that there is a selection to be made: you can have completely open borders, or you can have a welfare state, but you can't have both.
  - stuaxo 10y ago
    On the one hand we're told to better ourselves. On the other people are villanised for being economic migrants.
    - jimmyk 10y ago
      What should happen when there is a conflict between Europeans "bettering themselves" and economic migrants "bettering themselves"? Would you like to see Europeans roll over and ignore their own economic interests? Or do you believe no such conflict is possible? Does bettering oneself mean the same thing for economic migrants as it does for Europeans, in your mind? I gather from your comment that it means "attaining greater material wealth" for economic migrants. What does it mean for Europeans? Does it mean sharing their material wealth with the less fortunate, at their expense and the expense of their progeny?
      - ptaipale 10y ago
        Property and wealth are significant issues, but surely not the only things, and possibly not the most significant things. Safety, security and national and ethnic identity are also important to people. If I live in a country and city where my ethnicity and language are the majority, do I want them to become a minority, and do I want to adapt to culture of newcomers?
  - taurath 10y ago
    Absolutely true - if given the choice, most anyone would rather live in France than war torn Somalia. And given altruism doesn't work particularly well in unstable countries the current system is definitely in a bad state. Borders will have to be closed, as they marginally are now.
- jimmyk 10y ago
  You don't have to blame someone for wanting to do something in order to not let them do it.
- AtheistOfFail 10y ago
  Yeah, but capital has lobbyists.