4 ms·

I've never agreed with this theory. He seems to frame things in terms of irresponsible living and under that criteria I agree. If the difference between 60k a

by SamAtt 16y ago

I've never agreed with this theory. He seems to frame things in terms of irresponsible living and under that criteria I agree. If the difference between 60k and 90k is just "a little more “entertainment” and maybe some bigger stuff" to you than his theory works out. But to the person who invests that extra 30k a year and gets to retire at 50 instead of 70 I think the happiness difference is pretty significant. I'd bet the 55 year old who gets to spend his days as he wishes is much happier than the 55 year old still working his 9 to 5 job.

barrkel 16y ago
I think you may be overestimating the benefits of retirement in practice. Many retired people feel directionless and purposeless, and die sooner. By your argument, unemployed people living off the dole ought to be very happy, but it's actually depressing.
- neilc 16y ago
  Living off the dole is filled with stress. If you had a reliable, steady income and the health to enjoy it, I think most people would be much happier than they are working a typical job. Living off the dole is also not something considered socially respectable, whereas early retirement is widely accepted.
  - barrkel 16y ago
    What I'm objecting to is this concept which seems to exist in this thread that work is a drudge, and being relieved from it is a net positive. I think it's simply not true. Quite apart from enjoying your work, there's the social aspect, it gets you out of the house, gives you a reason to get up in the morning, you incrementally work towards longer-term goals, etc. Retirement in leisure has none of these things, and I strongly believe you'll find the bloom wears off the rose quite quickly if you don't find some other form of work to do, even if you don't choose to call it work, or aren't paid for it. I believe a man who retires at 70 will be happier than one who retires at 50, and he'll live longer too (leaving aside those who die between 50 and 70).
    - neilc 16y ago
      I think the obligation to work in exchange for pay that is the problem. If you're in the position where you can freely choose what to work on, I just think you'd be a lot happier than if your choice is dictated by your employer. That is a lot of the freedom that you get as an academic (or nominally as a founder). As it happens, I'd expect that if I was retired I'd spend a lot of time doing similar stuff to what I do now -- but being able to choose how to spend your time would be a major benefit.
    - pbhjpbhj 16y ago
      >I believe a man who retires at 70 will be happier than one who retires at 50, and he'll live longer too (leaving aside those who die between 50 and 70). You don't work in Calcutta cleaning sewer pipes wearing nothing but a loin-cloth do you. Not everyone enjoys there work but we all have to eat. I'm in my 30s, if I could retire now I would - then I could do things I enjoy, not sit at home doing nothing but be active in ways in which it's not easy to acquire financial support. First up would be a course in forestry, being a school governor, spending more time doing voluntary youth work, getting fit again...
dagw 16y ago
I'd bet the 55 year old who gets to spend his days as he wishes is much happier than the 55 year old still working his 9 to 5 job. My dad for example has been pushing his retirement forward for several years now because, even though he's looking forward to the free time and has the money to comfortably retire, he loves what he does 9-5 and can't stop thinking about all the awesome projects he'll miss out on if he leaves. Then there is the dark side of the equation where people retire after a lifetime of work, come home, realize that they have nothing to spend their days on and their life has no purpose any more, and promptly die.
- potatolicious 16y ago
  > "ome home, realize that they have nothing to spend their days on and their life has no purpose any more, and promptly die." I honestly wouldn't mind that. In my ideal world I'd work till I drop - such would be how much I enjoy what I do. As I get older I imagine I would want to scale back how much of work I'd do as other things take over (children, grandchildren, etc), but I doubt I'd ever give this up altogether.

by SamAtt 16y ago

barrkel 16y ago

I think you may be overestimating the benefits of retirement in practice. Many retired people feel directionless and purposeless, and die sooner. By your argument, unemployed people living off the dole ought to be very happy, but it's actually depressing.

neilc 16y ago
Living off the dole is filled with stress. If you had a reliable, steady income and the health to enjoy it, I think most people would be much happier than they are working a typical job. Living off the dole is also not something considered socially respectable, whereas early retirement is widely accepted.
- barrkel 16y ago
  What I'm objecting to is this concept which seems to exist in this thread that work is a drudge, and being relieved from it is a net positive. I think it's simply not true. Quite apart from enjoying your work, there's the social aspect, it gets you out of the house, gives you a reason to get up in the morning, you incrementally work towards longer-term goals, etc. Retirement in leisure has none of these things, and I strongly believe you'll find the bloom wears off the rose quite quickly if you don't find some other form of work to do, even if you don't choose to call it work, or aren't paid for it. I believe a man who retires at 70 will be happier than one who retires at 50, and he'll live longer too (leaving aside those who die between 50 and 70).
  - neilc 16y ago
    I think the obligation to work in exchange for pay that is the problem. If you're in the position where you can freely choose what to work on, I just think you'd be a lot happier than if your choice is dictated by your employer. That is a lot of the freedom that you get as an academic (or nominally as a founder). As it happens, I'd expect that if I was retired I'd spend a lot of time doing similar stuff to what I do now -- but being able to choose how to spend your time would be a major benefit.
  - pbhjpbhj 16y ago
    >I believe a man who retires at 70 will be happier than one who retires at 50, and he'll live longer too (leaving aside those who die between 50 and 70). You don't work in Calcutta cleaning sewer pipes wearing nothing but a loin-cloth do you. Not everyone enjoys there work but we all have to eat. I'm in my 30s, if I could retire now I would - then I could do things I enjoy, not sit at home doing nothing but be active in ways in which it's not easy to acquire financial support. First up would be a course in forestry, being a school governor, spending more time doing voluntary youth work, getting fit again...

dagw 16y ago

I'd bet the 55 year old who gets to spend his days as he wishes is much happier than the 55 year old still working his 9 to 5 job. My dad for example has been pushing his retirement forward for several years now because, even though he's looking forward to the free time and has the money to comfortably retire, he loves what he does 9-5 and can't stop thinking about all the awesome projects he'll miss out on if he leaves. Then there is the dark side of the equation where people retire after a lifetime of work, come home, realize that they have nothing to spend their days on and their life has no purpose any more, and promptly die.

potatolicious 16y ago
> "ome home, realize that they have nothing to spend their days on and their life has no purpose any more, and promptly die." I honestly wouldn't mind that. In my ideal world I'd work till I drop - such would be how much I enjoy what I do. As I get older I imagine I would want to scale back how much of work I'd do as other things take over (children, grandchildren, etc), but I doubt I'd ever give this up altogether.