7 ms·

All the responses here indicate the same "la dee da having kids is so wonderful that you don't even miss the other stuff." Fuck that. I have kids and I totall

by daxfohl 10y ago

All the responses here indicate the same "la dee da having kids is so wonderful that you don't even miss the other stuff." Fuck that. I have kids and I totally miss being able to stay up all night working on stuff and exploring new technologies, feeling like the world is going on without me. Don't get me wrong, I'm a passable dad, spend as much time with kids as possible, take them out to libraries and parks and try to teach them things. But in the back of my head most of that time I'm still lamenting the things that I'm not able to do and that I'll probably never be able to accomplish, wondering if this was the right decision. But it seems almost heretical these days to admit that. I can't be the only one, right?

BiohaZd 10y ago
ahmen to that brother....
balabaster 10y ago
I have two daughters, 7 and 8. Both have clinically diagnosed ADHD and the eldest has ODD and was born with heart problems that required open heart surgery to fix. I love them both to death. On their good days they're amazing kids. On their bad days, I, like you just slog through it and keep my thoughts to myself wondering just how much longer I can keep going. It's hard. You don't want to ruin your kids by admitting your doubts. You don't want them to have any inkling that they were anything but the perfect decision to expand your loving family. But your computer at least does what you tell it to, even if it wasn't quite what you intended to tell it to do. If I have to tell my kids to put on their shoes one more time today I may jump off the roof. I won't lie, there's days I'm truly not even sure how I make it through the day, but somehow, by some grace of God, because it's not my own, that left long ago, I do. On the days where they snuggle into you and tell you you're the most amazing Daddy a little girl can have, that makes all the suffering and sacrifice melt away.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- gknoy 10y ago
  This is so well said, thank you. My own kids have their moments of driving me up the wall (every bedtime, where "brush your teeth" seems to be in a foreign language), but there are very very few things that feel even remotely as good as your kids giving you a hug when you (or they) need it.
- magic_beans 10y ago
  What exactly is ODD? Where is the line drawn between an aggressive child and ODD? Are girls diagnosed more liberally with ODD than boys?
  - balabaster 10y ago
    ODD: Oppositional Defiance Disorder The clinical symptoms are listed as: - Frequent temper tantrums - Excessive arguing with adults - Often questioning rules - Active defiance and refusal to comply with adult requests and rules - Deliberate attempts to annoy or upset people - Blaming others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior - Often being touchy or easily annoyed by others - Frequent anger and resentment - Mean and hateful talking when upset - Spiteful attitude and revenge seeking https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Families_and_Youth/Facts_for_Families/FFF-Guide/Children-With-Oppositional-Defiant-Disorder-072.aspx https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Families_and_Youth/Facts_for_Fam... I can't speak to whether boys or girls are more frequently diagnosed with this. My guess would be boys that are more frequently diagnosed, but I'd like to emphasize the word guess; I've not done any extensive research on that aspect. We (her parents and psychiatrist) have determined that my eldest daughter hits every single symptom on the list. It's been particularly hard to live with and we've sought out help from every available resource to learn to manage it and live with it. This will likely be an ongoing work in progress until we find a balance where the effort to manage it balances symptoms we can learn to live with, eventually as she grows and looks to leave home and start her own life, she will need to have learned to manage and control it herself. Of course, it's already been 8 years and is at least another 10 years away. It hasn't been and isn't going to be an easy path. I often tell myself that she's just 8 and growing up with heart problems and surgery that you can't hide from her because of the slew of tests she's had to undergo her whole life to ensure her health has been harder on her psychologically than it has on all of us - and it's been hard for us, I can only begin to imagine what it was like to go through for her. So some allowances have to be made for her psychological state from this. That doesn't make it easier to deal with, it just helps you to keep putting on the mask and continuing to demonstrate a level patience that you ran out of so long ago you can't remember what it was like not to feel this way.
    - magic_beans 10y ago
devopsproject 10y ago
This is quite common. Find a balance.
meesles 10y ago
I think a lot of people can sympathize, but as you said, it's kinda taboo to say you wish you didn't have kids! I think you get the same feeling, a loss of freedoms, from any significant evolution in life. Leaving college: "I wish I could still go out drinking every other day and perform the best in my peer-circle" Getting to a more serious romantic stage in your relationship: "I wish I could still play video games all weekend and not have to think about another person's feelings" And in my case, getting a puppy: "I wish I could leave the house for more than a day without having to worry about the living being I'm responsible for" And then having kids, and then getting old enough that you can't be as active as you want, and then just being an actual grandpa. I think it's just important to put things in context and look at the sum of the joys in your life. I was pretty stoked in college because I could do whatever I wanted, but I also couldn't afford nice vacations, casual plane trips to see friends, quality (expensive) food, etc.
- shiven 10y ago
  Nailed it. Perspective is what it's about. Your kids won't be the same in a few years, neither will you and nor the world. Take care of your health while doing all that you do and you'll get back to doing the other things that you miss doing or would love to do. It won't kill you, or your career, if you miss out on a shitty framework or two.
  - pm90 10y ago
    > It won't kill you, or your career, if you miss out on a shitty framework or two. How about: if you miss on most weekends, music festivals, backpacking through different countries, working whenever you want, getting a drink whenever you want....and that is only your personal freedoms. Add to that all the responsibilities that comes with parenting. I'm not saying its not a good idea to be a parent; simply that its not just "missing out on a framework". You miss out on a lot of things...and you should be aware of that before making that decision.
    - YZF 10y ago
      When my older daughter was 7 and my younger daughter was 3 months old we went on a 2.5 month camping trip to Australia. This is more than what me and many other people have done with no kids. We've certainly taken the kids to music festivals as well and have gone on short backpacking trips (not that we couldn't do long ones if we wanted). A lot of the limitations you're describing are self imposed. Life tends to have responsibilities whether you have kids or not. Having kids is a life changing experience for sure but you can definitely "skill up" and do a lot of other things after you've had kids. Not a problem.
jbattle 10y ago
There's a pretty powerful and largely unspoken cultural norm to present yourself as happy, motivated and fulfilled. I'm not sure if it's a US thing or a universal thing. Those are all good things indeed, and good to aim for. But ... some days/some weeks/some months/some years ... life is not fun, is demotivating, and is a grind. You aren't the only one for sure
drvdevd 10y ago
I'm sure you're not the only one. As a soon-to-be Dad and long time single hacker late night guy, I've been wondering myself if I'll feel the same way. But then I remember the day jobs I've had where I was thinking the same things on the clock: lamenting what I'm not working on and will probably never accomplish. Especially including the programming and/or devops jobs. I've got to say I can't point to a single job (even working in a restaurant as a dish washer, and on a ranch) where I couldn't have found any way to constantly increase my knowlede even by some small ammount while working. It's even more challenging to me working remotely on gigs that are utterly boring, because I'm tempted to stray out into left field and the Internet makes that so easy of course. But those boring gigs carry value that I can find if I look for it, and that I can build upon. Every second, they offer opportunities for exploring a new problem domain - for learning something new. And my client gets a great ROI if I do that. We both win. And with Kids, is it not a good thing to tell them about what you're working on? To show enthusiasm for your work? You say you try to teach your kids things - I've heard it said the best way to learn something is by teaching it, right?
thearn4 10y ago
It's a mix. On the one hand, I do also regret not being able to crunch things through the night like I used to. On the other hand, most of that stuff matters a lot less to me now than it used to. I mean, I still do a fair amount of hobby stuff and learning new tech stacks, but it's just one part of my identity instead of being the primary part. If I was gung-ho about wanting to start a company and never got the chance, then I might feel more regret about it. But that has never been a personal goal of mine. I've talked to a lot of dads at my workplace about this. Everyone has these questions come up, and everyone feels closest to their children at different timescales too. E.g. some dads do not feel close to their kids as babies at all, but became very attached once they started talking. Lots of random thoughts there. Just don't beat yourself up over it.
Joeri 10y ago
How do you know the other side would feel any better? If you had chosen not to have kids, would you lament your solitary existence and worry that maybe you've picked the wrong path? Or put differently: how do you tell the difference between making the wrong choice and buyer's remorse?
eanzenberg 10y ago
Be honest.. before kids, how many nights did you "stay up working on stuff and exploring new technologies?" My bet is most of your time pre-kids was "wasted" on non-career things. If you were actually spending many nights studying then having kids won't really stop you from learning. My anecdotal story: Before my kid, I spent roughly 80% of my time outside work "wasting" playing video games, watching youtube, twitch, going out, things like that. The other 20% was spent learning and progressing my skills. Since having a kid, I haven't really touched video games nor really miss them, though I may pick up a switch soon. I tend to spend about the same time, maybe more now, on studying and picking up new skills. What i did find is having a kid helped me sharpen my focus when I do study and helped me put my life in perspective of his. *I use "wasted" as you used it, but I personally don't think that time was actually wasted.
- daxfohl 10y ago
  I find this to be the best response. I don't miss the "crap" I used to have time for, lack of "freedom" isn't that big of a deal. It's more about putting ambitions and dreams on hold, likely forever, and the recognition that no, I'm not going to be the person who solves quantum gravity because I have to spend most of my time making sure these little things aren't eating worms or tearing library books and whatnot, and I'll be 60 when they're gone. It's easy in those moments to blame them for it, but you have to remember that such things were always pipe dreams anyway. Still, that doesn't make the recognition of that fact any easier. All that said, due to lack of free time and the newfound need to use it efficiently, I've found that I've probably read more actual physics in the last four years than in the previous many years of dreaming about it. So there's that aspect too. It's not all bad.
conductr 10y ago
Expecting our first kid and I already feel this feeling coming.
tastythrowaway 10y ago
Definitely not the only one. I think it depends on what stage your kids are at. Are they old enough to have their own hobbies? Our first arrived recently, I've resigned myself to the fact that working toward any sort of mastery again will elude me until he finds his own obsessions. So about 6 years or so if my childhood is any indicator. But I think having a relationship cuts into that as well. There are times when he's sleeping and we're both trying to work on projects and my wife wants to talk or "needs a hug" or something. At times it's frustrating, then I try and remember what things were like before they came along. Obviously this would all be different if I had means or money and was single at the same time...
cblock811 10y ago
One of my old high school friends just posted a long rant about this and it's totally understandable. I'm not sure I could have kids for the same reasons you mentioned.

by daxfohl 10y ago

BiohaZd 10y ago

ahmen to that brother....

balabaster 10y ago

I have two daughters, 7 and 8. Both have clinically diagnosed ADHD and the eldest has ODD and was born with heart problems that required open heart surgery to fix. I love them both to death. On their good days they're amazing kids. On their bad days, I, like you just slog through it and keep my thoughts to myself wondering just how much longer I can keep going. It's hard. You don't want to ruin your kids by admitting your doubts. You don't want them to have any inkling that they were anything but the perfect decision to expand your loving family. But your computer at least does what you tell it to, even if it wasn't quite what you intended to tell it to do. If I have to tell my kids to put on their shoes one more time today I may jump off the roof. I won't lie, there's days I'm truly not even sure how I make it through the day, but somehow, by some grace of God, because it's not my own, that left long ago, I do. On the days where they snuggle into you and tell you you're the most amazing Daddy a little girl can have, that makes all the suffering and sacrifice melt away.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
gknoy 10y ago
This is so well said, thank you. My own kids have their moments of driving me up the wall (every bedtime, where "brush your teeth" seems to be in a foreign language), but there are very very few things that feel even remotely as good as your kids giving you a hug when you (or they) need it.
magic_beans 10y ago
What exactly is ODD? Where is the line drawn between an aggressive child and ODD? Are girls diagnosed more liberally with ODD than boys?
- balabaster 10y ago
  ODD: Oppositional Defiance Disorder The clinical symptoms are listed as: - Frequent temper tantrums - Excessive arguing with adults - Often questioning rules - Active defiance and refusal to comply with adult requests and rules - Deliberate attempts to annoy or upset people - Blaming others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior - Often being touchy or easily annoyed by others - Frequent anger and resentment - Mean and hateful talking when upset - Spiteful attitude and revenge seeking https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Families_and_Youth/Facts_for_Families/FFF-Guide/Children-With-Oppositional-Defiant-Disorder-072.aspx https://www.aacap.org/AACAP/Families_and_Youth/Facts_for_Fam... I can't speak to whether boys or girls are more frequently diagnosed with this. My guess would be boys that are more frequently diagnosed, but I'd like to emphasize the word guess; I've not done any extensive research on that aspect. We (her parents and psychiatrist) have determined that my eldest daughter hits every single symptom on the list. It's been particularly hard to live with and we've sought out help from every available resource to learn to manage it and live with it. This will likely be an ongoing work in progress until we find a balance where the effort to manage it balances symptoms we can learn to live with, eventually as she grows and looks to leave home and start her own life, she will need to have learned to manage and control it herself. Of course, it's already been 8 years and is at least another 10 years away. It hasn't been and isn't going to be an easy path. I often tell myself that she's just 8 and growing up with heart problems and surgery that you can't hide from her because of the slew of tests she's had to undergo her whole life to ensure her health has been harder on her psychologically than it has on all of us - and it's been hard for us, I can only begin to imagine what it was like to go through for her. So some allowances have to be made for her psychological state from this. That doesn't make it easier to deal with, it just helps you to keep putting on the mask and continuing to demonstrate a level patience that you ran out of so long ago you can't remember what it was like not to feel this way.
  - magic_beans 10y ago

devopsproject 10y ago

This is quite common. Find a balance.

meesles 10y ago

I think a lot of people can sympathize, but as you said, it's kinda taboo to say you wish you didn't have kids! I think you get the same feeling, a loss of freedoms, from any significant evolution in life. Leaving college: "I wish I could still go out drinking every other day and perform the best in my peer-circle" Getting to a more serious romantic stage in your relationship: "I wish I could still play video games all weekend and not have to think about another person's feelings" And in my case, getting a puppy: "I wish I could leave the house for more than a day without having to worry about the living being I'm responsible for" And then having kids, and then getting old enough that you can't be as active as you want, and then just being an actual grandpa. I think it's just important to put things in context and look at the sum of the joys in your life. I was pretty stoked in college because I could do whatever I wanted, but I also couldn't afford nice vacations, casual plane trips to see friends, quality (expensive) food, etc.

shiven 10y ago
Nailed it. Perspective is what it's about. Your kids won't be the same in a few years, neither will you and nor the world. Take care of your health while doing all that you do and you'll get back to doing the other things that you miss doing or would love to do. It won't kill you, or your career, if you miss out on a shitty framework or two.
- pm90 10y ago
  > It won't kill you, or your career, if you miss out on a shitty framework or two. How about: if you miss on most weekends, music festivals, backpacking through different countries, working whenever you want, getting a drink whenever you want....and that is only your personal freedoms. Add to that all the responsibilities that comes with parenting. I'm not saying its not a good idea to be a parent; simply that its not just "missing out on a framework". You miss out on a lot of things...and you should be aware of that before making that decision.
  - YZF 10y ago
    When my older daughter was 7 and my younger daughter was 3 months old we went on a 2.5 month camping trip to Australia. This is more than what me and many other people have done with no kids. We've certainly taken the kids to music festivals as well and have gone on short backpacking trips (not that we couldn't do long ones if we wanted). A lot of the limitations you're describing are self imposed. Life tends to have responsibilities whether you have kids or not. Having kids is a life changing experience for sure but you can definitely "skill up" and do a lot of other things after you've had kids. Not a problem.

jbattle 10y ago

There's a pretty powerful and largely unspoken cultural norm to present yourself as happy, motivated and fulfilled. I'm not sure if it's a US thing or a universal thing. Those are all good things indeed, and good to aim for. But ... some days/some weeks/some months/some years ... life is not fun, is demotivating, and is a grind. You aren't the only one for sure

drvdevd 10y ago

I'm sure you're not the only one. As a soon-to-be Dad and long time single hacker late night guy, I've been wondering myself if I'll feel the same way. But then I remember the day jobs I've had where I was thinking the same things on the clock: lamenting what I'm not working on and will probably never accomplish. Especially including the programming and/or devops jobs. I've got to say I can't point to a single job (even working in a restaurant as a dish washer, and on a ranch) where I couldn't have found any way to constantly increase my knowlede even by some small ammount while working. It's even more challenging to me working remotely on gigs that are utterly boring, because I'm tempted to stray out into left field and the Internet makes that so easy of course. But those boring gigs carry value that I can find if I look for it, and that I can build upon. Every second, they offer opportunities for exploring a new problem domain - for learning something new. And my client gets a great ROI if I do that. We both win. And with Kids, is it not a good thing to tell them about what you're working on? To show enthusiasm for your work? You say you try to teach your kids things - I've heard it said the best way to learn something is by teaching it, right?

thearn4 10y ago

It's a mix. On the one hand, I do also regret not being able to crunch things through the night like I used to. On the other hand, most of that stuff matters a lot less to me now than it used to. I mean, I still do a fair amount of hobby stuff and learning new tech stacks, but it's just one part of my identity instead of being the primary part. If I was gung-ho about wanting to start a company and never got the chance, then I might feel more regret about it. But that has never been a personal goal of mine. I've talked to a lot of dads at my workplace about this. Everyone has these questions come up, and everyone feels closest to their children at different timescales too. E.g. some dads do not feel close to their kids as babies at all, but became very attached once they started talking. Lots of random thoughts there. Just don't beat yourself up over it.

Joeri 10y ago

How do you know the other side would feel any better? If you had chosen not to have kids, would you lament your solitary existence and worry that maybe you've picked the wrong path? Or put differently: how do you tell the difference between making the wrong choice and buyer's remorse?

eanzenberg 10y ago

Be honest.. before kids, how many nights did you "stay up working on stuff and exploring new technologies?" My bet is most of your time pre-kids was "wasted" on non-career things. If you were actually spending many nights studying then having kids won't really stop you from learning. My anecdotal story: Before my kid, I spent roughly 80% of my time outside work "wasting" playing video games, watching youtube, twitch, going out, things like that. The other 20% was spent learning and progressing my skills. Since having a kid, I haven't really touched video games nor really miss them, though I may pick up a switch soon. I tend to spend about the same time, maybe more now, on studying and picking up new skills. What i did find is having a kid helped me sharpen my focus when I do study and helped me put my life in perspective of his. *I use "wasted" as you used it, but I personally don't think that time was actually wasted.

daxfohl 10y ago
I find this to be the best response. I don't miss the "crap" I used to have time for, lack of "freedom" isn't that big of a deal. It's more about putting ambitions and dreams on hold, likely forever, and the recognition that no, I'm not going to be the person who solves quantum gravity because I have to spend most of my time making sure these little things aren't eating worms or tearing library books and whatnot, and I'll be 60 when they're gone. It's easy in those moments to blame them for it, but you have to remember that such things were always pipe dreams anyway. Still, that doesn't make the recognition of that fact any easier. All that said, due to lack of free time and the newfound need to use it efficiently, I've found that I've probably read more actual physics in the last four years than in the previous many years of dreaming about it. So there's that aspect too. It's not all bad.

conductr 10y ago

Expecting our first kid and I already feel this feeling coming.

tastythrowaway 10y ago

Definitely not the only one. I think it depends on what stage your kids are at. Are they old enough to have their own hobbies? Our first arrived recently, I've resigned myself to the fact that working toward any sort of mastery again will elude me until he finds his own obsessions. So about 6 years or so if my childhood is any indicator. But I think having a relationship cuts into that as well. There are times when he's sleeping and we're both trying to work on projects and my wife wants to talk or "needs a hug" or something. At times it's frustrating, then I try and remember what things were like before they came along. Obviously this would all be different if I had means or money and was single at the same time...

cblock811 10y ago

One of my old high school friends just posted a long rant about this and it's totally understandable. I'm not sure I could have kids for the same reasons you mentioned.