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> It definitely feels like getting developer tools bootstrapped/funded is harder than other things sometimes Is this backed by any concrete data? I am working

by orb_yt 10y ago

> It definitely feels like getting developer tools bootstrapped/funded is harder than other things sometimes Is this backed by any concrete data? I am working on a developer tool/application myself, and was pleased to find programming tools was an item listed in YCombinator's RFS. What is the general consensus here?

burrows 10y ago
Prevailing wisdom says developers don't pay for tools so investing in them is stupid.
- simplehuman 10y ago
  How about heroku?
  - spullara 10y ago
    I helped save them from being a developer tool. Originally they were aiming to be an IDE. Instead they stuck with being a mission critical execution environment and then got bought by Salesforce.
daveguy 10y ago
It may be that developer tools by definition have a fairly limited market. I guess if you were to build a developer tool that succeeds in the mythical "make everyone a developer" then people would throw money at you. However, most developer tools have a very limited market: existing developers. That said, there are some very successful developer tool companies: atlassian, github, etc.
andrenotgiant 10y ago
I think this rethinkdb postmortem write-up best explains the original commenter's sentiment http://www.defstartup.org/2017/01/18/why-rethinkdb-failed.html http://www.defstartup.org/2017/01/18/why-rethinkdb-failed.ht...
- marknadal 10y ago
  RethinkDB guys are great, but not the only reflection of what is happening in the DevTools space. I was interviewed on The Changelog[1] podcast and JavaScript Jabber[2] about some of this stuff, and wrote a follow up piece published on hackernoon[3] about it. It is a good space, it is just shifting in its needs, and I was able to raise just fine from big names like Tim Draper and Marc Benioff of Salesforce for our Open Source Firebase - https://github.com/amark/gun https://github.com/amark/gun . [1] https://changelog.com/podcast/236 https://changelog.com/podcast/236 [2] https://devchat.tv/js-jabber/mjs-002-my-js-story-mark-nadal https://devchat.tv/js-jabber/mjs-002-my-js-story-mark-nadal [3] https://hackernoon.com/the-implications-of-rethinkdb-and-parse-shutdowns-c076460058f7 https://hackernoon.com/the-implications-of-rethinkdb-and-par...
  - corysama 10y ago
    I'm not sure I understand the revenue model you are proposing in [3]. Can you ELI5 "creating revenue shared partnerships and branding" like I've never worked in the enterprise market?
    - marknadal 10y ago
      Not quite like a 5 year old (but if you want that, I can/will - just tell me again!). Open Source is your brand/value, which means it is your (genuine) marketing/evangelism. Being the news/story item itself gets you ahead of your competitors, who may be the advertisement along side your article. Use this traffic to create an edifying, positive community. You will be surprised at how high quality of people will show up at your doorstep (if your message from the previous step resonated well) - governments, enterprises, investors, employees at startups, compatriots of complementary technology. Now curate and start building relationships with the most promising of those people, such that they like you better than their own workplace. They are intimately aware of the problems/needs of their organization, and you help them build a solution to that specific need/pain-point on top of your Open Source developer tool. Now that an inside sale is happening, make some moves: 1. There is no need for that person to give his/her custom solution to their employer away for free. 2. Have that person leverage the solution as a massive role promotion, such that they are (or already were) "in charge" and can sign off on large recurring support contracts directly for your technology. OR 2. Have that person require their employer to pay license fees in order to use their customized solution. Guess who now needs outside help/leverage to enforce/deliver on that contract? Your friend, who if the employer doesn't purchase the contracts, will be poached by you. 3. Poach them anyways, acquire the rights, and make them the PM for your customer so you keep happy ties. Now that you've cracked that market open, expand to the rest of their competitors. 4. Fund raise based on all this progress. Of course, it is slightly different depending on what their role/position is, if it is an enterprise or not, etc. you have to make your best call/judgement as the CEO. Like with everything. It is working for us. :D

by orb_yt 10y ago

burrows 10y ago

Prevailing wisdom says developers don't pay for tools so investing in them is stupid.

simplehuman 10y ago
How about heroku?
- spullara 10y ago
  I helped save them from being a developer tool. Originally they were aiming to be an IDE. Instead they stuck with being a mission critical execution environment and then got bought by Salesforce.

daveguy 10y ago

It may be that developer tools by definition have a fairly limited market. I guess if you were to build a developer tool that succeeds in the mythical "make everyone a developer" then people would throw money at you. However, most developer tools have a very limited market: existing developers. That said, there are some very successful developer tool companies: atlassian, github, etc.

andrenotgiant 10y ago

I think this rethinkdb postmortem write-up best explains the original commenter's sentiment http://www.defstartup.org/2017/01/18/why-rethinkdb-failed.html http://www.defstartup.org/2017/01/18/why-rethinkdb-failed.ht...

marknadal 10y ago
RethinkDB guys are great, but not the only reflection of what is happening in the DevTools space. I was interviewed on The Changelog[1] podcast and JavaScript Jabber[2] about some of this stuff, and wrote a follow up piece published on hackernoon[3] about it. It is a good space, it is just shifting in its needs, and I was able to raise just fine from big names like Tim Draper and Marc Benioff of Salesforce for our Open Source Firebase - https://github.com/amark/gun https://github.com/amark/gun . [1] https://changelog.com/podcast/236 https://changelog.com/podcast/236 [2] https://devchat.tv/js-jabber/mjs-002-my-js-story-mark-nadal https://devchat.tv/js-jabber/mjs-002-my-js-story-mark-nadal [3] https://hackernoon.com/the-implications-of-rethinkdb-and-parse-shutdowns-c076460058f7 https://hackernoon.com/the-implications-of-rethinkdb-and-par...
- corysama 10y ago
  I'm not sure I understand the revenue model you are proposing in [3]. Can you ELI5 "creating revenue shared partnerships and branding" like I've never worked in the enterprise market?
  - marknadal 10y ago
    Not quite like a 5 year old (but if you want that, I can/will - just tell me again!). Open Source is your brand/value, which means it is your (genuine) marketing/evangelism. Being the news/story item itself gets you ahead of your competitors, who may be the advertisement along side your article. Use this traffic to create an edifying, positive community. You will be surprised at how high quality of people will show up at your doorstep (if your message from the previous step resonated well) - governments, enterprises, investors, employees at startups, compatriots of complementary technology. Now curate and start building relationships with the most promising of those people, such that they like you better than their own workplace. They are intimately aware of the problems/needs of their organization, and you help them build a solution to that specific need/pain-point on top of your Open Source developer tool. Now that an inside sale is happening, make some moves: 1. There is no need for that person to give his/her custom solution to their employer away for free. 2. Have that person leverage the solution as a massive role promotion, such that they are (or already were) "in charge" and can sign off on large recurring support contracts directly for your technology. OR 2. Have that person require their employer to pay license fees in order to use their customized solution. Guess who now needs outside help/leverage to enforce/deliver on that contract? Your friend, who if the employer doesn't purchase the contracts, will be poached by you. 3. Poach them anyways, acquire the rights, and make them the PM for your customer so you keep happy ties. Now that you've cracked that market open, expand to the rest of their competitors. 4. Fund raise based on all this progress. Of course, it is slightly different depending on what their role/position is, if it is an enterprise or not, etc. you have to make your best call/judgement as the CEO. Like with everything. It is working for us. :D