5 ms·

Have you seen the central line at rush hour in London? It's horrendous[1]. We are talking >7people per sqm, plus significant waits to even get on the trains. Bu

Have you seen the central line at rush hour in London? It's horrendous[1]. We are talking >7people per sqm, plus significant waits to even get on the trains. But yet, 100k+s use it every day of all socioeconomic backgrounds. I'd imagine mostly middle class/upper middle class professionals. Why? 1) Traffic is terrible. It will take 1hr+ to do a journey the central line does in 15-20m. 2) Even if you want to drive, parking costs around $1500/month in the square mile. 3) On top of that, you have the congestion charge for entering central London (£11.50/day - soon to be £25/day if you have a particularly polluting vehicle). You're looking at about $2000/month if you want to drive, which takes 4x as long and costs about 15x more than the train. This is what happens when you price effectively for the externalities of traffic congestion. People will switch to transit en masse, and 'loud music' will not be seen as a problem. [1]this also means there is the political will to build massive transit infrastructure, like crossrail, which will relieve the central line at a cost of around $20bn.

tapatio 10y ago
London sounds terrible to live in, way too many people.
- ghaff 10y ago
  Commuting at rush hour can be pretty awful in just about every major city--New York, London, Paris, Tokyo... I wouldn't call any of those places terrible but, yes, there are a lot of people and it can be pretty mobbed if you try to travel at peak times.
  - Pica_soO 10y ago
    How about extra pay for distributed commuters? Start your day early, end it early, start late, end it late and receive a bonus?
    - ghaff 10y ago
      Many cities (including London) have peak fares for transit, trains, etc. The problem is that if you're a typical commuter you probably don't have a lot of control over your schedule. If you're asking why don't companies do this, why would they? If anything, they probably prefer people to be in the office at the same time.
- selectodude 10y ago
  London isn't very dense, which is part of why traffic is so bad.
- tim333 10y ago
  Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded, as they say. Actually it's not so bad - the central line at rush hour is abnormal.
- dx034 10y ago
  It's much nicer when you cycle to work. Many parts of London are not built that densely, at least compared to other European cities.
Symbiote 10y ago
London hasn't adequately priced the externalities of traffic congestion. Air quality is still rather poor by European standards! The more recent changes are well overdue, but still don't go far enough.
- martinald 10y ago
  That's mostly caused by buses though, not private cars. Eg Oxford Street is one of the worst but has no cars on it. Not sure how productive it is taxing buses...
  - tim333 10y ago
    They are working on improving the busses, replacing them with hybrids and the like. Taxis too. https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do/environment/pollution-and-air-quality/improving-air-quality https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do/environment/pollution-a...
  - narag 10y ago
    Electric buses then.
    - dx034 10y ago
      Already started, several lines run on electric buses. But you'll only see improvements once black cabs are electric, too.
  - Symbiote 10y ago
    Oxford Street is packed with black cabs, they always seemed smellier to me. I used to work in Zone 4, and there'd be lines of them outside the station, with engines idling all day, next to the "Buses must switch off engines while on stand" signs. The new taxi regulations are a welcome improvement [1], but they're weaker than they should be. Why are Euro IV cars still allowed as new taxis? Why is it only voluntary for >10 year old vehicles to be replaced? No doubt it was the best deal Kahn etc could get, but it's disappointing that London/Britain can't do better. The buses[2] at least, are all Euro 4 standard or better, with the majority Euro 5 or better, i.e. made since 2010. [1] https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/taxi-and-private-hire-requirements https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/tax... [2] https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/bus-fleet-data-and-audits https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/bus-fl...
nradov 10y ago
Yes I've seen it as a tourist several years ago. Nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there: too crowded.

tapatio 10y ago

London sounds terrible to live in, way too many people.

ghaff 10y ago
Commuting at rush hour can be pretty awful in just about every major city--New York, London, Paris, Tokyo... I wouldn't call any of those places terrible but, yes, there are a lot of people and it can be pretty mobbed if you try to travel at peak times.
- Pica_soO 10y ago
  How about extra pay for distributed commuters? Start your day early, end it early, start late, end it late and receive a bonus?
  - ghaff 10y ago
    Many cities (including London) have peak fares for transit, trains, etc. The problem is that if you're a typical commuter you probably don't have a lot of control over your schedule. If you're asking why don't companies do this, why would they? If anything, they probably prefer people to be in the office at the same time.
selectodude 10y ago
London isn't very dense, which is part of why traffic is so bad.
tim333 10y ago
Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded, as they say. Actually it's not so bad - the central line at rush hour is abnormal.
dx034 10y ago
It's much nicer when you cycle to work. Many parts of London are not built that densely, at least compared to other European cities.

Symbiote 10y ago

London hasn't adequately priced the externalities of traffic congestion. Air quality is still rather poor by European standards! The more recent changes are well overdue, but still don't go far enough.

martinald 10y ago
That's mostly caused by buses though, not private cars. Eg Oxford Street is one of the worst but has no cars on it. Not sure how productive it is taxing buses...
- tim333 10y ago
  They are working on improving the busses, replacing them with hybrids and the like. Taxis too. https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do/environment/pollution-and-air-quality/improving-air-quality https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do/environment/pollution-a...
- narag 10y ago
  Electric buses then.
  - dx034 10y ago
    Already started, several lines run on electric buses. But you'll only see improvements once black cabs are electric, too.
- Symbiote 10y ago
  Oxford Street is packed with black cabs, they always seemed smellier to me. I used to work in Zone 4, and there'd be lines of them outside the station, with engines idling all day, next to the "Buses must switch off engines while on stand" signs. The new taxi regulations are a welcome improvement [1], but they're weaker than they should be. Why are Euro IV cars still allowed as new taxis? Why is it only voluntary for >10 year old vehicles to be replaced? No doubt it was the best deal Kahn etc could get, but it's disappointing that London/Britain can't do better. The buses[2] at least, are all Euro 4 standard or better, with the majority Euro 5 or better, i.e. made since 2010. [1] https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/taxi-and-private-hire-requirements https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/tax... [2] https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/bus-fleet-data-and-audits https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/bus-fl...

nradov 10y ago

Yes I've seen it as a tourist several years ago. Nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there: too crowded.