4 ms·

I'm kinda disappoint that the ban is based on country and not whether the individual has negative views towards the Kafir or the USA.

empath75 10y ago
According to the leaked dhs report, immigrants don't tend to get radicalized until they've been in the us for years, or their children do. So screening or vetting wouldn't make a significant difference.
- jlebrech 10y ago
  agreed, they usually come from a secular muslim country and are radicalised when they start going to mosque. maybe creating secular activities for them other than mosque would help them.
  - riyadparvez 10y ago
    I agree. To add more to your point, it would be more worthwhile if the authority and the Muslim community make sure there's no hate preacher in the mosques. As an ex-Muslim living in North America, I find it absolutely ridiculous that some hate preachers, who have been banned in their own countries, are traveling in the Western countries and spreading hatred.
zhengyi13 10y ago
As a practical exercise, try coming up with a system that could determine individual views as you suggest, that: 1) isn't trivially avoidable ("are you now, or have you ever been, a Militant Islamist?"), and 2) doesn't rely on extending the surveillance state further.
- jlebrech 10y ago
  maybe they need teaching about the Quran in a patriotic way.
- xherberta 10y ago
  Islam does allow you to lie to advance the cause. I don't know if it would allow you to eat a ham sandwich. (PS: I'm not serious)
  - tropo 10y ago
    Go ahead and be serious. That might work decently well. We could upgrade it and cover more ground: eat a bacon cheeseburger to get a visa, and then another upon arrival in the USA. If somebody doesn't mind this too much, they are probably harmless.
- jcranmer 10y ago
  The current visa application system? (That's a large part of the reason why there is so much uproar over the ban: the current visa application process in the US already does a good job of keeping out terrorists)
- nradov 10y ago
  Current immigration forms already ask applicants if they are spies. I always found that part hilarious, as if spies don't know how to lie and conceal their pasts?
synicalx 10y ago
How would accurately assess that though? "Do you hate America?" "No" "K, let him in"

empath75 10y ago

According to the leaked dhs report, immigrants don't tend to get radicalized until they've been in the us for years, or their children do. So screening or vetting wouldn't make a significant difference.

jlebrech 10y ago
agreed, they usually come from a secular muslim country and are radicalised when they start going to mosque. maybe creating secular activities for them other than mosque would help them.
- riyadparvez 10y ago
  I agree. To add more to your point, it would be more worthwhile if the authority and the Muslim community make sure there's no hate preacher in the mosques. As an ex-Muslim living in North America, I find it absolutely ridiculous that some hate preachers, who have been banned in their own countries, are traveling in the Western countries and spreading hatred.

zhengyi13 10y ago

As a practical exercise, try coming up with a system that could determine individual views as you suggest, that: 1) isn't trivially avoidable ("are you now, or have you ever been, a Militant Islamist?"), and 2) doesn't rely on extending the surveillance state further.

jlebrech 10y ago
maybe they need teaching about the Quran in a patriotic way.
xherberta 10y ago
Islam does allow you to lie to advance the cause. I don't know if it would allow you to eat a ham sandwich. (PS: I'm not serious)
- tropo 10y ago
  Go ahead and be serious. That might work decently well. We could upgrade it and cover more ground: eat a bacon cheeseburger to get a visa, and then another upon arrival in the USA. If somebody doesn't mind this too much, they are probably harmless.
jcranmer 10y ago
The current visa application system? (That's a large part of the reason why there is so much uproar over the ban: the current visa application process in the US already does a good job of keeping out terrorists)
nradov 10y ago
Current immigration forms already ask applicants if they are spies. I always found that part hilarious, as if spies don't know how to lie and conceal their pasts?

synicalx 10y ago

How would accurately assess that though? "Do you hate America?" "No" "K, let him in"