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Thanks for sharing. I think this is a good data point to prove that most people will not cheat on their take home. There is no incentive to cheat. Why would yo

by vinhboy 10y ago

Thanks for sharing. I think this is a good data point to prove that most people will not cheat on their take home. There is no incentive to cheat. Why would you want a job you are not qualified to do. From your experience, it sounds like these are good tests, because it's screening for qualified candidates, unlike the phone interview.

gambogi 10y ago
> Why would you want a job you are not qualified to do. money.
- gaius 10y ago
  Also, credentialling. Even if you can't do the work and only stay a few months, Google or Goldman or another big name on your CV will still open many doors.
  - wolfgke 10y ago
    In Germany there is a culture of not changing jobs very often (at most every few years, but even this should not happen too often). So if you have a "well-known" name such as Google or Goldman Sachs on your CV, but worked there only for few months, it is a clear sign that you were fired and about every future employer will be very cautious.
    - blisterpeanuts 10y ago
      For medium to large companies, this is true in the U.S. as well. Six months at Facebook, Google, or Bank of America would be a huge red flag.
      - gaius 10y ago
        That person will always be the "Goldman alumni" or the "ex-Googler". Couple that with a semi-prestigious degree and they'll be set.
    - user5994461 10y ago
      What if you joined Goldman Sacchs and was poached by JP Morgan after 6 months? What if you joined Google and was poached by Facebook after 1 year?
      - wolfgke 10y ago
        1. What is most important in your CV is the last employer. If it seems that you were fired, this can cause problems with getting a (decent) job afterwards. If you were poached, it is because the other employer wants you badly. So in your example your new "last" employer becomes JP Morgan or Facebook. So this kind of problem does not occur here. This does not contradict the fact that it still leaves/can leave a bad impression on impression if your were willing to be poached without a very good reason, since can be considered as a strong sign that your are not loyal to your employer and only hunting for money. 2. Poaching is rather uncommon in Germany. As I outlined in 1 being willing to be poached multiple times is a sign that you are not very loyal to your employer. Thus there is a strongly reduced incentive for employees to be poached. Also for poaching to work, you have to offer lots of money - I'd be really surprised if there are lots of employers that are willing to start such an "arms race with money". Why not simply offer decent money in your regular job advertisements and get good people without any arms race? Poaching might make sense if there you want to get "rockstars" that are not available on the "free job market", but can only be poached. But I'm also not aware of any industry sector in Germany where there exist employees that are treated as rockstars. :-(
        user5994461 10y ago
        Your vision is clearly limited to Germany, where poaching doesn't exist because there is no jobs and no strong companies competing. Just imagine a random company in a tech hub. They host a meetup once... the days after the meetup, most of their employees have been contacted by recruiters and other companies who attended. If they want anyone in particular and/or if any employee's salary is not on-par with their value, here they go! :D
    - sidlls 10y ago
      Outside the Valley and startup culture most companies looking for software developers in the US view a tenure of less than two years as being short, and a series of them indicates "job hopping." I'm not commenting on whether that's a good or bad thing, because good or bad it's simply the way it is.
koolba 10y ago
Are you kidding me? People will cheat just for fake internet points. With real cash on the line, they'd do just about anything.
- mathgeek 10y ago
  This. If people didn't lie (or stretch the truth) or cheat, we would only need resumes to know whether someone can do the technical aspects of any job.
matwood 10y ago
I don't even care if the person 'cheats' because I'll figure it out when we discuss the solution.
- avn2109 10y ago
  This has happened at my company. We give a similarly near-trivial hw problem, and sometimes people come in and literally "cannot remember" any single thing about the assignment, including the names of the columns in the data or the approximate objective of the HW. This is after performing plausibly well on a phone screen etc.
- vinhboy 10y ago
  Thanks for clarifying this. This is what I meant when I said "Why would you want a job you are not qualified to do." I am not so good with words sometimes... Haha...
dottedmag 10y ago
From my recruiting experience people cheat even during live-coding interview. I was pretty amused seeng a person whispering to a buddy outside of the video pickup area trying to get _any_ code written. Why do they do it? I have no idea.

by vinhboy 10y ago

gambogi 10y ago

> Why would you want a job you are not qualified to do. money.

gaius 10y ago
Also, credentialling. Even if you can't do the work and only stay a few months, Google or Goldman or another big name on your CV will still open many doors.
- wolfgke 10y ago
  In Germany there is a culture of not changing jobs very often (at most every few years, but even this should not happen too often). So if you have a "well-known" name such as Google or Goldman Sachs on your CV, but worked there only for few months, it is a clear sign that you were fired and about every future employer will be very cautious.
  - blisterpeanuts 10y ago
    For medium to large companies, this is true in the U.S. as well. Six months at Facebook, Google, or Bank of America would be a huge red flag.
    - gaius 10y ago
      That person will always be the "Goldman alumni" or the "ex-Googler". Couple that with a semi-prestigious degree and they'll be set.
  - user5994461 10y ago
    What if you joined Goldman Sacchs and was poached by JP Morgan after 6 months? What if you joined Google and was poached by Facebook after 1 year?
    - wolfgke 10y ago
      1. What is most important in your CV is the last employer. If it seems that you were fired, this can cause problems with getting a (decent) job afterwards. If you were poached, it is because the other employer wants you badly. So in your example your new "last" employer becomes JP Morgan or Facebook. So this kind of problem does not occur here. This does not contradict the fact that it still leaves/can leave a bad impression on impression if your were willing to be poached without a very good reason, since can be considered as a strong sign that your are not loyal to your employer and only hunting for money. 2. Poaching is rather uncommon in Germany. As I outlined in 1 being willing to be poached multiple times is a sign that you are not very loyal to your employer. Thus there is a strongly reduced incentive for employees to be poached. Also for poaching to work, you have to offer lots of money - I'd be really surprised if there are lots of employers that are willing to start such an "arms race with money". Why not simply offer decent money in your regular job advertisements and get good people without any arms race? Poaching might make sense if there you want to get "rockstars" that are not available on the "free job market", but can only be poached. But I'm also not aware of any industry sector in Germany where there exist employees that are treated as rockstars. :-(
      - user5994461 10y ago
        Your vision is clearly limited to Germany, where poaching doesn't exist because there is no jobs and no strong companies competing. Just imagine a random company in a tech hub. They host a meetup once... the days after the meetup, most of their employees have been contacted by recruiters and other companies who attended. If they want anyone in particular and/or if any employee's salary is not on-par with their value, here they go! :D
  - sidlls 10y ago
    Outside the Valley and startup culture most companies looking for software developers in the US view a tenure of less than two years as being short, and a series of them indicates "job hopping." I'm not commenting on whether that's a good or bad thing, because good or bad it's simply the way it is.

koolba 10y ago

Are you kidding me? People will cheat just for fake internet points. With real cash on the line, they'd do just about anything.

mathgeek 10y ago
This. If people didn't lie (or stretch the truth) or cheat, we would only need resumes to know whether someone can do the technical aspects of any job.

matwood 10y ago

I don't even care if the person 'cheats' because I'll figure it out when we discuss the solution.

avn2109 10y ago
This has happened at my company. We give a similarly near-trivial hw problem, and sometimes people come in and literally "cannot remember" any single thing about the assignment, including the names of the columns in the data or the approximate objective of the HW. This is after performing plausibly well on a phone screen etc.
vinhboy 10y ago
Thanks for clarifying this. This is what I meant when I said "Why would you want a job you are not qualified to do." I am not so good with words sometimes... Haha...

dottedmag 10y ago

From my recruiting experience people cheat even during live-coding interview. I was pretty amused seeng a person whispering to a buddy outside of the video pickup area trying to get _any_ code written. Why do they do it? I have no idea.