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Donald Trump accuses Obama of 'wire-tapping' his office before election
- tyingq 10y agoI don't usually comment on the political stories here, but... "How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!" It's just surreal to me that we've descended to the point where our President is communicating in this fashion. Not just the typos. The crazy hyperbole, lack of decorum, and the venue. I worry what might happen if he uses this same approach with foreign relations. Sounds alarmist, but could the next war be started via Twitter? Edit: A relatively good summary of the events that led here: https://twitter.com/justinhendrix/status/838010340579426304 https://twitter.com/justinhendrix/status/838010340579426304
- DaUR 10y agoIt's weird to see so many people utterly obsessed with appearances (which all of the above count as) as if the President's job was to be an actor. Prediction: Trump's style will not make it more or less likely for him to declare war than if he had the style of a polished actor.
- tyingq 10y agoIs it that weird that there's an expectation that the US president should think about things before communicating them? There's a difference between "polished actor" and "careful diplomacy". You don't think his communication style might have been risky during the Cuban missle crisis, for example?
- DaUR 10y ago> Is it that weird that there's an expectation What's weird is that you attribute any importance to appearances, and prefer one type of appearances over another. You know what they say: judge people by what they do, solely by what they do. Never by what they say. This isn't even caring about what he says, but caring about the way he says it, even worse. > You don't think his communication style might have been risky during the Cuban missle crisis, for example? During that same Cuban Missile Crisis, the Soviets sent two letters. One that appeared ranting and almost drunkenlike, and one that appeared diplomatic, reasoned and moderate. The first was probably sent by Khrushchev, so he could seem tough, and the other by his advisors, who didn't have as much to prove. Yet the Cuban crisis went fine, because the US expected Khrushchev to behave like that, and weren't surprised by it. Same with Trump, who's just as predictable as any other politician (I would say more so) if you follow him enough. You care about appearances (which never matter) when what matters is expectations and consistency.
- tyingq 10y agoIt's not so much that I care about appearances. It's more that I understand that other people, like foreign leaders, might care about something Trump says off the cuff. Your example of Khrushchev might have worked out differently with blowhards on both sides.
- DaUR 10y ago> Your example of Khrushchev might have worked out differently with blowhards on both sides. Which there were (on the US side, some in the admin wanted to bomb Cuba to shreds), but were overridden. Because leaders have skin in the game in a way advisors don't. It's something to call for total destruction as an advisor, and another thing to be the man in charge, where the decision, responsibility, and blame all lie on you. Human psychology saves the day.
- tyingq 10y agoYour position is basically that poor diplomacy never has consequences.
- DaUR 10y agoI'm arguing that this isn't "bad diplomacy", and only is if you judge it by its appearances. Geopolitics is driven by constraints. Nobody will declare war against Trump because his tie is too long.
- tyingq 10y agoYou're equating the power of speech and communication with a tie being too long. Speech can, and does, incite action, not always the intended action either.
- DaUR 10y ago> Speech can, and does, incite action Action is the sole responsibility of the one committing the action. I don't buy the premises of the fascist "speech is violence" crowd, and thank God that world leaders are not as immature as them.
- travmatt 10y agonotable in this story is trumps confirmation of the fisa surveillance order against him. I'd suggest someone should explain to trump that his taking the time to confirm stories such as these that he is declassifying their existence and enabling people to leak more information, but on the whole it seems that his incompetence is helping to blunt the impact of his treason, so it's probably a net benefit.
- joezydeco 10y agoIf it's declassified now, is it available by FOIA request?
- travmatt 10y agoI don't assume there is a relationship between the two, given that information in the public sphere still gets denied in the foia process. Even better than a foia, Ben Sasse is calling for the release of the warrant. A member of the senate judiciary committee is harder to ignore than a foia request.
- joshontheweb 10y agoWhy does he think he's so special? Didn't Bush followed by Obama tap ALL of our communications via The NSA? Are physical wiretaps even a thing anymore at that high a level? Edit: punctuation.
- 69mlgsniperdad 10y agoThese top comments are blowing my mind! Surreal that we've descended to the point where the president is tweeting? Indeed, I suppose, that the media refuses to publish the truth. How are you not in utter shock, that the president wire-tapped the opposing campaign and pushed a story about Russia they knew was false. This is the biggest political event in my lifetime by a long shot.
- tyingq 10y agoThe comment was more nuanced than "the president is tweeting".
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]