3 ms·

Yeah... Not going to happen. Americans spend billions on European vacations, and nobody is going to threaten that when push comes to shove (any additional hass

Yeah... Not going to happen. Americans spend billions on European vacations, and nobody is going to threaten that when push comes to shove (any additional hassle is going to send people to Cancun instead). This is just posturing.

Cuuugi 10y ago
That is absolutely true, however the majority of European sway is with Germany, and the lost tourism would hit other countries (Greece, Spain, Croatia) much harder.
- cplanas 10y ago
  There will be a hit in tourism, but I doubt that it will happen on those three countries. When Americans go to Europe they tend to focus on France/Italy; Spain is more popular for Europeans. Think about tourists in Miami (searching for sun) compared to tourists in New York (searching for "history").
- tonfa 10y ago
  What about France?
- kzrdude 10y ago
  There's a ton of tourists in Germany during summer though.
sleavey 10y ago
For me to go on vacation to the US, as a European citizen (outside of the 6 countries that are the reason for this action), I just need to get an ESTA for $15 or so. I guess the EU visa will cost something similar. It's not going to change anything.
- blibble 10y ago
  the EU is already introducing a similar system to the ESTA regardless: http://www.schengenvisainfo.com/brussels-prepares-eu-wide-scheme-visa-free-travel-authorisation/ http://www.schengenvisainfo.com/brussels-prepares-eu-wide-sc... (doesn't apply to Ireland or the UK) they're proposing requiring full visas for US citizens if the US doesn't comply, the sort where you have to book an appointment with the consulate for an interview and pay several hundred dollars.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- vmarsy 10y ago
  there's around 12 million travelers* from the US to Europe every year, so if a ESTA-reciprocity is implemented, it'll bring around $180m of revenue to European immigration offices. * that's only counting leisure travelers, there might be many more business travelers?
  - dottedmag 10y ago
    How much will it cost to staff these offices and process visa applications?
    - vmarsy 10y ago
      ESTA is all electronic, the process would be automatic, I'm sure you can run it for less than $180m a year. It could be as simple as: Enter first name, last name, passport number, passport country, date of flights >>> Cool you have 90 days this year! or >>> You've stayed more than 90 days, please get a real visa. If one gets denied the ESTA, like the US system he'd get refunded $10 of the $14 and if he stills want to travel, he would then have to show up to the embassy for a real, couple of hundreds dollars visa, similar to what today's countries who are not part of the ESTA program have to go through to visit the US.
- phicoh 10y ago
  ESTA is a officially a visa-waiver program that is supposed to be free. I seriously doubt that an actual visa will be as cheap.
  - FabHK 10y ago
    Yup. Visa entails filling out a huge form [1], submitting it and a fee of USD 160, visiting a US consulate for an interview with an official, then getting a visa, or a rejection (with no reasons specified). [1] It's a huge form because, to quote Wikipedia, > The presumption in the law is that every nonimmigrant visa applicant (except certain employment-related applicants, who are exempt) is an intending immigrant unless otherwise proven. Therefore, applicants for most nonimmigrant visas must overcome this presumption by demonstrating that: * The purpose of their trip is to enter the U.S. for a specific, intended purpose; * They plan to remain for a specific, limited period; and * They have a residence outside the U.S. as well as other binding ties which will ensure their return at the end of their stay.
- ascorbic 10y ago
  Citizens of the five countries currently have to get a full B-2 visa to visit the U.S., which costs $160 and involves an interview at the embassy. Why do you think the requirements for U.S. citizens coming to Europe would be much less onerous?
StreamBright 10y ago
Like Europeans spend billions on American trips with the strictest VISA system, handing over even social media accounts and going through other non-standard border procedures. I don't think VISA requirements are a major force in tourism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings
JohnTHaller 10y ago
There will be in uptick in international travelers skipping the US and going elsewhere in Europe. The downward trend in travel to the US is being called the Trump slump. NYC for instance is now projecting 300,000 fewer international tourists in 2017 than the previous year instead of the 400,000 gain over the previous year predicted a few months ago. Travel searches for flights and lodging in the US are down 20 to 50% worldwide outside the US. Those vacationers have to go somewhere besides here. It may as well be EU countries.

Cuuugi 10y ago

That is absolutely true, however the majority of European sway is with Germany, and the lost tourism would hit other countries (Greece, Spain, Croatia) much harder.

cplanas 10y ago
There will be a hit in tourism, but I doubt that it will happen on those three countries. When Americans go to Europe they tend to focus on France/Italy; Spain is more popular for Europeans. Think about tourists in Miami (searching for sun) compared to tourists in New York (searching for "history").
tonfa 10y ago
What about France?
kzrdude 10y ago
There's a ton of tourists in Germany during summer though.

sleavey 10y ago

For me to go on vacation to the US, as a European citizen (outside of the 6 countries that are the reason for this action), I just need to get an ESTA for $15 or so. I guess the EU visa will cost something similar. It's not going to change anything.

blibble 10y ago
the EU is already introducing a similar system to the ESTA regardless: http://www.schengenvisainfo.com/brussels-prepares-eu-wide-scheme-visa-free-travel-authorisation/ http://www.schengenvisainfo.com/brussels-prepares-eu-wide-sc... (doesn't apply to Ireland or the UK) they're proposing requiring full visas for US citizens if the US doesn't comply, the sort where you have to book an appointment with the consulate for an interview and pay several hundred dollars.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
vmarsy 10y ago
there's around 12 million travelers* from the US to Europe every year, so if a ESTA-reciprocity is implemented, it'll bring around $180m of revenue to European immigration offices. * that's only counting leisure travelers, there might be many more business travelers?
- dottedmag 10y ago
  How much will it cost to staff these offices and process visa applications?
  - vmarsy 10y ago
    ESTA is all electronic, the process would be automatic, I'm sure you can run it for less than $180m a year. It could be as simple as: Enter first name, last name, passport number, passport country, date of flights >>> Cool you have 90 days this year! or >>> You've stayed more than 90 days, please get a real visa. If one gets denied the ESTA, like the US system he'd get refunded $10 of the $14 and if he stills want to travel, he would then have to show up to the embassy for a real, couple of hundreds dollars visa, similar to what today's countries who are not part of the ESTA program have to go through to visit the US.
phicoh 10y ago
ESTA is a officially a visa-waiver program that is supposed to be free. I seriously doubt that an actual visa will be as cheap.
- FabHK 10y ago
  Yup. Visa entails filling out a huge form [1], submitting it and a fee of USD 160, visiting a US consulate for an interview with an official, then getting a visa, or a rejection (with no reasons specified). [1] It's a huge form because, to quote Wikipedia, > The presumption in the law is that every nonimmigrant visa applicant (except certain employment-related applicants, who are exempt) is an intending immigrant unless otherwise proven. Therefore, applicants for most nonimmigrant visas must overcome this presumption by demonstrating that: * The purpose of their trip is to enter the U.S. for a specific, intended purpose; * They plan to remain for a specific, limited period; and * They have a residence outside the U.S. as well as other binding ties which will ensure their return at the end of their stay.
ascorbic 10y ago
Citizens of the five countries currently have to get a full B-2 visa to visit the U.S., which costs $160 and involves an interview at the embassy. Why do you think the requirements for U.S. citizens coming to Europe would be much less onerous?

StreamBright 10y ago

Like Europeans spend billions on American trips with the strictest VISA system, handing over even social media accounts and going through other non-standard border procedures. I don't think VISA requirements are a major force in tourism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings

JohnTHaller 10y ago

There will be in uptick in international travelers skipping the US and going elsewhere in Europe. The downward trend in travel to the US is being called the Trump slump. NYC for instance is now projecting 300,000 fewer international tourists in 2017 than the previous year instead of the 400,000 gain over the previous year predicted a few months ago. Travel searches for flights and lodging in the US are down 20 to 50% worldwide outside the US. Those vacationers have to go somewhere besides here. It may as well be EU countries.