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> the Chinese are shocked Um, every Chinese person I've ever talked to is well aware of the propaganda status of government news, and know that if you want a 3

> the Chinese are shocked Um, every Chinese person I've ever talked to is well aware of the propaganda status of government news, and know that if you want a 3rd-party (not necessarily 'unbiased') opinion you can load up a VPN and go read some non-domestic sources, whether in English or Chinese. > even most Chinese don't know Yes, Xi Jinping's primary rival for top posts was Li Keqiang. The Chinese press regularly leaks juicy tidbits regarding political rivalries, because different factions of the CCP control different media outlets. Sometimes that rivalry breaks out so far that even Western outlets pick up on it [1]. What you have to understand is that many traditional societies (and most Asian societies) do not like to bring conflicts into public and into the open. Disputes are best resolved behind closed doors via negotiation. This isn't just how things are done in politics, but this ethic permeates every level of Chinese society. Japan is very similar in this regard, and even though Japan nominally has voting, good luck being able to tell apart their two parties in policy terms or figuring out how policies were devised. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonchang/2016/07/24/chinas-xi-li-grudge-match-paralyzing-economy/#4517c1926a15 https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonchang/2016/07/24/chinas-x...

narrator 10y ago
This is what I'm talking about. I think the sociological and political learning and culture needs to go both ways. The west takes the position of moral superiority to the East in every possible way and thus can't learn. There was some grudging implementation of "The Toyota Way" and Japanese production principles in the 90s after the American auto makers got totally destroyed by Japanese automakers in the 80s, but there needs to be more of that learning going on. Has anybody even written a book praising the Chinese government for bringing an enormous number of people out of poverty and explaining how it goes about its business?
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  It is funny: the east thinks the west is trying to take the position of moral superiority while the west thinks the same about the east. In truth, there is really no such thing as moral superiority, they are just excuses for whataboutisms. Chinese people are very smart and resilient. They thrive despite the communist party, not because of it. It wasn't until Deng Xiaoping said "hey, let's get out of the way" that things really took off. Of course, if you think Mao was so great, I guess we have to agree to disagree.

narrator 10y ago

This is what I'm talking about. I think the sociological and political learning and culture needs to go both ways. The west takes the position of moral superiority to the East in every possible way and thus can't learn. There was some grudging implementation of "The Toyota Way" and Japanese production principles in the 90s after the American auto makers got totally destroyed by Japanese automakers in the 80s, but there needs to be more of that learning going on. Has anybody even written a book praising the Chinese government for bringing an enormous number of people out of poverty and explaining how it goes about its business?

seanmcdirmid 10y ago
It is funny: the east thinks the west is trying to take the position of moral superiority while the west thinks the same about the east. In truth, there is really no such thing as moral superiority, they are just excuses for whataboutisms. Chinese people are very smart and resilient. They thrive despite the communist party, not because of it. It wasn't until Deng Xiaoping said "hey, let's get out of the way" that things really took off. Of course, if you think Mao was so great, I guess we have to agree to disagree.