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I've tried a Heddy Topper (it was offered to me in a restaurant in Burlington), I live near Goose Island, and I've consumed New Glarus in Wisconsin. To me it's

I've tried a Heddy Topper (it was offered to me in a restaurant in Burlington), I live near Goose Island, and I've consumed New Glarus in Wisconsin. To me it's all about the scarcity. People waiting overnight for limited-edition brews, crossing state lines to buy exclusive brands...it adds this psychological value to the beer. When you strip that away you're left with another 100+ IBU beer that my palate eventually can't take anymore.

whistlerbrk 10y ago
Yeah, the obsession in America over IPAs really needs to end. I'm sure this is a good brew, but the vast majority of them seem to me to be an exercise in absurdity. Too high ABV and so bitter you can't taste the fact that most of these beers have nothing else to offer in terms of body or flavor. I liken it to Starbucks drip, you like it because in order to make it palatable you have to dump sugar and cream into it.
- jhbadger 10y ago
  I think it is more like getting used to spice. In the 1980s it used to be often repeated in the US that Mexican, Thai, and Indian food was ridiculously spiced and that there was no flavor except peppers and that the only reason to eat these dishes was to prove that you could take it. But eventually a lot of even US people developed palettes used to spice and could appreciate that there is a reason these dishes have a lot of spice. It's the same with hops.
  - beat 10y ago
    Meh. There's a difference between a complex flavor that happens to be spicy, and a mere heat bomb. Take a Wendy's spicy chicken sandwich, for example. That's a heat bomb. It's awful, but it's very spicy. Meanwhile, two of my favorite Indian restaurants in town (well, one Indian, and one Trinidad) can serve most of their dishes with zero peppers - no heat, just flavor. Peppers can be added all the way up to gut-melting levels, of course. Beer is the same way. Complexity and bitterness are two different things, and you don't need a ton of bitterness to get the complexity.
- SippinLean 10y ago
  >Too high ABV and so bitter You're describing "West Coast" style IPAs, "NE-style" (like Heady) are almost entirely different, and rarely bitter; Monkish famously had a "0 IBU" IPA >you can't taste the fact that most of these beers have nothing else to offer in terms of body or flavor What? IPA, especially DIPA is one of the most full-bodied styles available. Imperials can go into the ~10% category but a lot of IPAs are closer to ~5%. >I liken it to Starbucks drip, you like it because in order to make it palatable you have to dump sugar and cream into it. I guess the argument could apply to adjunct stouts, but the flavors and aromas hops add to a beer aren't valid anymore? We've used them since the 9th century (granted not to IPA levels).
- joezydeco 10y ago
  most of these beers have nothing else to offer in terms of body or flavor The hoppiness can also hide a lot of problems in the beer. Having spent a lot of time in Germany I can appreciate the pilsners, where the mistakes have nowhere to hide.
  - SippinLean 10y ago
    >The hoppiness can also hide a lot of problems in the beer. A common myth, the hardest part of a pils is maybe the decoction mash and having good water. IPAs and DIPAs are much more complex recipes requiring several steps post-fermentation, pils really just needs to be lagered. Any commercial brewery will have solved sanitation and 90% of off-flavors, they don't brew IPA because they are easy, they do it because they sell. https://www.reddit.com/r/beercirclejerk/comments/5dqvu0/double_ipas_the_easiest_beer_in_the_world_to_make/ https://www.reddit.com/r/beercirclejerk/comments/5dqvu0/doub...
    - kd0amg 10y ago
      What steps did you have in mind? It's been some time since I last made an IPA, but I don't remember it involving any more post-fermentation work than anything else I've made.
- arprocter 10y ago
  I had no idea of the hype around this particular beer. My friend in MA had some in his fridge, I cracked one open and it wasn't particularly life-changing - another hoppy IPA. If you're into lagers check out Jack's Abby
cafard 10y ago
Scarcity: persons at or approaching Social Security age can remember when Coors was a real big deal in the Eastern US. Those of us living in Colorado didn't really understand this, though some of us did get through a fair bit of Coors.
- joezydeco 10y ago
  Thankfully we have wonderful documentary about it all: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076729 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076729
SippinLean 10y ago
This dogmatic view has become so common it's a widely-mocked cliche: https://www.reddit.com/r/beercirclejerk/comments/25tsuh/dae_not_like_ipas_and_is_therefore_an_superior/ https://www.reddit.com/r/beercirclejerk/comments/25tsuh/dae_...
bendykstra 10y ago
The amount of competition in the beer world is just incredible. (I just checked with a beer-enthusiast friend and he tried over 1000 different beers just in 2016.) To get people's attention and then to maintain a reputation as a great beer for several years, a beer has to be more than just an extreme example of a certain style. No doubt, though, the ambition to be interesting to aficionados of a given style does push certain beers towards the extreme. These beers are not bad, just niche in their appeal. There is truth in what you say about the psychological value of scarce beers. However, being hard to acquire cuts both ways in a world of so many alternatives: the beer enthusiasts that I know are quick to dismiss a beer as not worth the effort after one sip.
tptacek 10y ago
Part of the problem is that you're in Chicago, and Heady Topper doesn't travel well. Also, you already live in one of the country's three centers for Double IPA production. :)
- joezydeco 10y ago
  The gist of my story was that I just placed Heddy Topper in that bin with all the other hops-bombs that really did nothing for me. On a meta-level I was amused by the number of brewers and coffee roasters in Vermont, given the fact that neither hops nor coffee beans are grown anywhere even remotely local to the state. But hey, it's a hip thing to do right? 802ers gotta be who they are and that's cool.
  - SippinLean 10y ago
    There are several hop farms in Vermont, Addison being the largest probably. This article about the boon in hop farming there is almost six years old: http://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/resurrecting-hops/Content?oid=2144031 http://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/resurrecting-hops/Content... Most of the US is in the wrong climate to grow coffee, do people drink it across the country just because it's "hip"?

whistlerbrk 10y ago

Yeah, the obsession in America over IPAs really needs to end. I'm sure this is a good brew, but the vast majority of them seem to me to be an exercise in absurdity. Too high ABV and so bitter you can't taste the fact that most of these beers have nothing else to offer in terms of body or flavor. I liken it to Starbucks drip, you like it because in order to make it palatable you have to dump sugar and cream into it.

jhbadger 10y ago
I think it is more like getting used to spice. In the 1980s it used to be often repeated in the US that Mexican, Thai, and Indian food was ridiculously spiced and that there was no flavor except peppers and that the only reason to eat these dishes was to prove that you could take it. But eventually a lot of even US people developed palettes used to spice and could appreciate that there is a reason these dishes have a lot of spice. It's the same with hops.
- beat 10y ago
  Meh. There's a difference between a complex flavor that happens to be spicy, and a mere heat bomb. Take a Wendy's spicy chicken sandwich, for example. That's a heat bomb. It's awful, but it's very spicy. Meanwhile, two of my favorite Indian restaurants in town (well, one Indian, and one Trinidad) can serve most of their dishes with zero peppers - no heat, just flavor. Peppers can be added all the way up to gut-melting levels, of course. Beer is the same way. Complexity and bitterness are two different things, and you don't need a ton of bitterness to get the complexity.
SippinLean 10y ago
>Too high ABV and so bitter You're describing "West Coast" style IPAs, "NE-style" (like Heady) are almost entirely different, and rarely bitter; Monkish famously had a "0 IBU" IPA >you can't taste the fact that most of these beers have nothing else to offer in terms of body or flavor What? IPA, especially DIPA is one of the most full-bodied styles available. Imperials can go into the ~10% category but a lot of IPAs are closer to ~5%. >I liken it to Starbucks drip, you like it because in order to make it palatable you have to dump sugar and cream into it. I guess the argument could apply to adjunct stouts, but the flavors and aromas hops add to a beer aren't valid anymore? We've used them since the 9th century (granted not to IPA levels).
joezydeco 10y ago
most of these beers have nothing else to offer in terms of body or flavor The hoppiness can also hide a lot of problems in the beer. Having spent a lot of time in Germany I can appreciate the pilsners, where the mistakes have nowhere to hide.
- SippinLean 10y ago
  >The hoppiness can also hide a lot of problems in the beer. A common myth, the hardest part of a pils is maybe the decoction mash and having good water. IPAs and DIPAs are much more complex recipes requiring several steps post-fermentation, pils really just needs to be lagered. Any commercial brewery will have solved sanitation and 90% of off-flavors, they don't brew IPA because they are easy, they do it because they sell. https://www.reddit.com/r/beercirclejerk/comments/5dqvu0/double_ipas_the_easiest_beer_in_the_world_to_make/ https://www.reddit.com/r/beercirclejerk/comments/5dqvu0/doub...
  - kd0amg 10y ago
    What steps did you have in mind? It's been some time since I last made an IPA, but I don't remember it involving any more post-fermentation work than anything else I've made.
arprocter 10y ago
I had no idea of the hype around this particular beer. My friend in MA had some in his fridge, I cracked one open and it wasn't particularly life-changing - another hoppy IPA. If you're into lagers check out Jack's Abby

cafard 10y ago

Scarcity: persons at or approaching Social Security age can remember when Coors was a real big deal in the Eastern US. Those of us living in Colorado didn't really understand this, though some of us did get through a fair bit of Coors.

joezydeco 10y ago
Thankfully we have wonderful documentary about it all: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076729 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076729

SippinLean 10y ago

This dogmatic view has become so common it's a widely-mocked cliche: https://www.reddit.com/r/beercirclejerk/comments/25tsuh/dae_not_like_ipas_and_is_therefore_an_superior/ https://www.reddit.com/r/beercirclejerk/comments/25tsuh/dae_...

bendykstra 10y ago

The amount of competition in the beer world is just incredible. (I just checked with a beer-enthusiast friend and he tried over 1000 different beers just in 2016.) To get people's attention and then to maintain a reputation as a great beer for several years, a beer has to be more than just an extreme example of a certain style. No doubt, though, the ambition to be interesting to aficionados of a given style does push certain beers towards the extreme. These beers are not bad, just niche in their appeal. There is truth in what you say about the psychological value of scarce beers. However, being hard to acquire cuts both ways in a world of so many alternatives: the beer enthusiasts that I know are quick to dismiss a beer as not worth the effort after one sip.

tptacek 10y ago

Part of the problem is that you're in Chicago, and Heady Topper doesn't travel well. Also, you already live in one of the country's three centers for Double IPA production. :)

joezydeco 10y ago
The gist of my story was that I just placed Heddy Topper in that bin with all the other hops-bombs that really did nothing for me. On a meta-level I was amused by the number of brewers and coffee roasters in Vermont, given the fact that neither hops nor coffee beans are grown anywhere even remotely local to the state. But hey, it's a hip thing to do right? 802ers gotta be who they are and that's cool.
- SippinLean 10y ago
  There are several hop farms in Vermont, Addison being the largest probably. This article about the boon in hop farming there is almost six years old: http://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/resurrecting-hops/Content?oid=2144031 http://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/resurrecting-hops/Content... Most of the US is in the wrong climate to grow coffee, do people drink it across the country just because it's "hip"?