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For many people "doing their own things" is gonna be playing more Counter-Strike. Of course, that's their right, but whether you can make a sustainable economy

For many people "doing their own things" is gonna be playing more Counter-Strike. Of course, that's their right, but whether you can make a sustainable economy out of subsidizing that is another question...a question that is much more pressing than "wouldn't that be better?" and one the article doesn't even attempt to answer, probably because it is largely impossible and anything like it is speculation akin to religion.

forgotpwtomain 10y ago
> For many people "doing their own things" is gonna be playing more Counter-Strike. Also is "more Counter-Strike" at all correlated with a quality of life increase? 45 free minutes you wouldn't have had to get rid of some stress shooting things - probably yes? 5 hours a day - probably not?
thehardsphere 10y ago
> For many people "doing their own things" is gonna be playing more Counter-Strike. Or worse, shooting heroin.
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  Or even worse, building open source software, attending city hall meetings, or parenting.
  - thehardsphere 10y ago
    Right, because everyone in Appalacia who doesn't have a job is doing all of those things with the "leisure" time they have from not working.
  - ThrowawayR2 10y ago
    >Or even worse, building open source software, attending city hall meetings, or parenting. Pretty much none of that is happening in areas where unemployment is chronic, even in a nation as wealthy as the United States. It's quite a mystery as to why well-educated people persist in the mistaken belief that UBI will magically cause recipients to behave nobly.
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      If your assertion was true, then I'd expect those areas to be so full of crime, misery and drug abuse, that it would make international news. > It's quite a mystery as to why well-educated people persist in the mistaken belief that UBI will magically cause recipients to behave nobly. I find the reverse to be the mystery - why some people persist in the belief that people on UBI will mostly turn to spending their days abusing drugs and cheap entertainment? Like if humans were zombies who need an employer to give their life a direction?
      - ThrowawayR2 10y ago
        >If your assertion was true, then I'd expect those areas to be so full of crime, misery and drug abuse, that it would make international news. I invite you to walk the streets of downtown Detroit or, as thehardsphere points out, parts of Appalachia if you still have doubts. The only reason such areas in the US don't make international news is that third-world countries still have it relatively worse and, even then, governments of other nations issue formal cautions to their citizens against travelling to these areas.
        gremlinsinc 10y ago
        Are you so weak as an individual that government giving you 20k extra per year just for being a citizen would drive you personally to become an alcoholic or heroine abuser? Even though all studies on UBI prove otherwise? Or do you just think anyone who can't make it to middle class on their own accord is probably already a drug user?
        ThrowawayR2 10y ago
        >heroine abuser I protest this unseemly slander; I'll have you know that I treat women with respect. /s In answer to your question, A) you can pretty much find a study that says anything you want and B) a considerable number of my high school classmates from lower and lower middle class families did, in fact, fall prey to drug addiction and I know all too well that, had circumstances been just slightly different, I might have joined them. Am I weak? Perhaps, perhaps. But no more so than a great many others. Seriously, go to Detroit or one of these other afflicted areas and walk around. Many of these people are already on public assistance programs. If you survive the experience, come back and see if you can manage to still say to me with a straight face that people will find their own productive purpose in life given UBI.
ryandrake 10y ago
Who cares? For other people, that extra time and the safety net may enable them to start a business or do charity work or run for their local school board. I'd argue it's worth it for society to subsidize 1,000 people playing Counter-Strike for every one person who could be empowered to start the next Google.
- aaron-lebo 10y ago
  We should all care if the discussion is about whether it is sustainable policy. It's not a normative argument, it's a is this even possible? Isn't that a necessary question?
  - ryandrake 10y ago
    If it's impossible, it's only politics and the puritanical "a living must be earned" mentality holding it back. More than enough value is generated in the USA to pay for some form of Basic Income--value that is _currently_ distributed comically unevenly. All it takes is political will.
    - mcbruiser 10y ago
      wealth and value is created, not distributed. I'm sick and tired of hearing from communists about taking money away from hard working people and giving to those less deserving.

forgotpwtomain 10y ago

> For many people "doing their own things" is gonna be playing more Counter-Strike. Also is "more Counter-Strike" at all correlated with a quality of life increase? 45 free minutes you wouldn't have had to get rid of some stress shooting things - probably yes? 5 hours a day - probably not?

thehardsphere 10y ago

> For many people "doing their own things" is gonna be playing more Counter-Strike. Or worse, shooting heroin.

TeMPOraL 10y ago
Or even worse, building open source software, attending city hall meetings, or parenting.
- thehardsphere 10y ago
  Right, because everyone in Appalacia who doesn't have a job is doing all of those things with the "leisure" time they have from not working.
- ThrowawayR2 10y ago
  >Or even worse, building open source software, attending city hall meetings, or parenting. Pretty much none of that is happening in areas where unemployment is chronic, even in a nation as wealthy as the United States. It's quite a mystery as to why well-educated people persist in the mistaken belief that UBI will magically cause recipients to behave nobly.
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    If your assertion was true, then I'd expect those areas to be so full of crime, misery and drug abuse, that it would make international news. > It's quite a mystery as to why well-educated people persist in the mistaken belief that UBI will magically cause recipients to behave nobly. I find the reverse to be the mystery - why some people persist in the belief that people on UBI will mostly turn to spending their days abusing drugs and cheap entertainment? Like if humans were zombies who need an employer to give their life a direction?
    - ThrowawayR2 10y ago
      >If your assertion was true, then I'd expect those areas to be so full of crime, misery and drug abuse, that it would make international news. I invite you to walk the streets of downtown Detroit or, as thehardsphere points out, parts of Appalachia if you still have doubts. The only reason such areas in the US don't make international news is that third-world countries still have it relatively worse and, even then, governments of other nations issue formal cautions to their citizens against travelling to these areas.
      - gremlinsinc 10y ago
        Are you so weak as an individual that government giving you 20k extra per year just for being a citizen would drive you personally to become an alcoholic or heroine abuser? Even though all studies on UBI prove otherwise? Or do you just think anyone who can't make it to middle class on their own accord is probably already a drug user?
        ThrowawayR2 10y ago
        >heroine abuser I protest this unseemly slander; I'll have you know that I treat women with respect. /s In answer to your question, A) you can pretty much find a study that says anything you want and B) a considerable number of my high school classmates from lower and lower middle class families did, in fact, fall prey to drug addiction and I know all too well that, had circumstances been just slightly different, I might have joined them. Am I weak? Perhaps, perhaps. But no more so than a great many others. Seriously, go to Detroit or one of these other afflicted areas and walk around. Many of these people are already on public assistance programs. If you survive the experience, come back and see if you can manage to still say to me with a straight face that people will find their own productive purpose in life given UBI.

ryandrake 10y ago

Who cares? For other people, that extra time and the safety net may enable them to start a business or do charity work or run for their local school board. I'd argue it's worth it for society to subsidize 1,000 people playing Counter-Strike for every one person who could be empowered to start the next Google.

aaron-lebo 10y ago
We should all care if the discussion is about whether it is sustainable policy. It's not a normative argument, it's a is this even possible? Isn't that a necessary question?
- ryandrake 10y ago
  If it's impossible, it's only politics and the puritanical "a living must be earned" mentality holding it back. More than enough value is generated in the USA to pay for some form of Basic Income--value that is _currently_ distributed comically unevenly. All it takes is political will.
  - mcbruiser 10y ago
    wealth and value is created, not distributed. I'm sick and tired of hearing from communists about taking money away from hard working people and giving to those less deserving.