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Here is how I see it. I rely on those rides to go to work every single day and here what it (would) costs me. Uber: $250 a month.(Majority) Lyft: $500 a month

Here is how I see it. I rely on those rides to go to work every single day and here what it (would) costs me. Uber: $250 a month.(Majority) Lyft: $500 a month (Whenever Uber is too expensive) Bus : $100 a month (1h:15 for 6 miles and 3 buses... No) Politics and all internal conflicts aside, there is a need for these services whether we like it or not. When I need to make a decision in the morning I take whatever is the least expensive and more convenient. I don't want to spend hours on the bus and I do not want a good chunk of my paycheck to go to simply getting to work. Speaking with drivers everyday, I understand their frustration of driving all around town only for very small profit. Just today, I took a ride with a driver that seemed very frustrated. I didn't want to intrude but he ended up tell me how much he hates UberPool (that's what I use). 70 cents per mile, and when a second rider joins the rate goes down, and for the next even lower. We were 3 different riders. In the riders perspective, we want the cheapest and most reliable. Sure I want to support those who work for a company that respect them but at the end of the day it is not a charity. What is the answer in the consumer's perspective? Edit: Formatting

yunti 10y ago
The answer is that, you are using a service that is unsustainably too cheap. In the longer term the price will have to increase, probably quite significantly and you'll have to choose whether you think it's still worth it or take the bus. Unfortunately you, and many others are the ones benefitting from drivers being underpaid.
- kagamine 10y ago
  It's almost like Uberpool could be a privately run bus service using larger vehicles and transporting more people at once, instead of private taxis. Depending on the angle you view it from, perhaps the Uberpool service isn't too cheap, but simply a bad idea from the start, without the infrastructure or a suitable class of vehicle to make it viable.
  - jordigh 10y ago
    So... privatised public transportation? Maybe that's what it'll take for the US to improve its public transportation. Having good ol' fashioned private enterprise instead of the government paying for it.
  - wcummings 10y ago
    If a bus went down every side street and picked up riders from their house it would take forever to get anywhere, cause bunching etc.. Most people would probably rather walk 5 minutes to a bus stop for a more reliable ride.
- patrickaljord 10y ago
  > Unfortunately you, and many others are the ones benefitting from drivers being underpaid. To be fair, these drivers would be out of jobs without Uber. They are not qualified enough to find better paying jobs. Being underpaid is still better than not being paid at all. However, there's a limit to how little Uber can pay its drivers before they start looking for better paying jobs elsewhere. Uber needs to balance this with their need to be profitable in order to keep existing. And they're not profitable already in spite of these low wages. If anything, it's Uber who needs to worry about its existence. Drivers will find jobs elsewhere. I think Uber started as a high margin business, which is always a great place to be but they quickly turned into a (very) low/negative margin business because of competition which requires exponential growth and constant injection of money to pay for the growth. The amount of pressure on the ceo must be insane, glad I'm not in his shoes (doesn't justify him being a-hole to his driver though obviously).
  - ryhamz 10y ago
    To be even more fair, a huge factor in them being underpaid is that the average driver will have a hard time factoring in depreciation, which hits you on a delay.
    - aedron 10y ago
      Not to mention that Uber pretty much bait-and-switched a lot of drivers, starting with artificially high payouts and then aggressively pushing the price down, fishing money out of the drivers' pockets and making their investments unprofitable. Which is what the driver in the recent video was complaining to Kalanick about.
  - jarjoura 10y ago
    That's not entirely fair or accurate to call them out on lack of skill. Many of the drivers I've met along the way over the years have all enjoyed the flexibility. College kids making extra party/food money, stay at home moms who are avoiding being bored. Just the other day I had a driver who was in between jobs and was using the time for interviews. Any serious driver who is full time will most likely move up to the black cars and get private clients over time.
- naravara 10y ago
  >The answer is that, you are using a service that is unsustainably too cheap. In the longer term the price will have to increase, probably quite significantly and you'll have to choose whether you think it's still worth it or take the bus. Unfortunately you, and many others are the ones benefitting from drivers being underpaid. Uber is already hiring lobbyists with the goal of boondoggling municipalities into providing Uber subsidies in lieu of investing in public transit. They talk a big game about how self-driving cars are what's going to make Uber profitable, but that's just marketing to earn some 'cool points' because that tech won't be ready before the VC funding runs dry. They're banking on public subsidies.
savanaly 10y ago
I think the answer is that as long as both sides agree to it then we let the trade go through (if uber can find someone who would exchange their time for money at the going rate, and you likewise). If the driver is frustrated that uber sets the rate too low, I think what they should be frustrated at is that there is no better alternative use for their time-- or if there is then no company has found out a way to hook them up with it with minimal transaction costs like uber does for ride sharing. More companies that lower transaction costs (these are all the rage in Silicon Valley these days apparently) for this sort of trade would help, as maybe that guy giving you your ride would be better used (and thus slightly better paid) tutoring your kid in math, but the transaction cost of him moving into that line of work is too high. If nothing else exists or can be found that's a good use of their time I'm afraid that's just the breaks. Back to school, or lower your standard of living so that the amount you make is enough. I'm all for a basic income type proposal by the way, but that's a whole other story.
Nutomic 10y ago
This can't really be solved by individual consumers. Instead, the government should introduce laws to ensure that drivers make at least minimum wage (after fuel, maintenance, taxes etc). If that is not enough, it might be necessary to raise the minimum wage.
- ZainRiz 10y ago
  Considering how Uber and Lyft are both loosing money as it is, using government intervention to force them to pay their drivers more will just increase their chances of going out of business and mean there will be no driving jobs at all. In this situation I'd prefer letting the market decide the prices for drivers. They had jobs before Uber, and if Uber starts paying too little then they can try going back to those kinds of jobs. Ultimately though, as we run out of unskilled jobs, we may need to implement some sort of living wage the government provides to everyone to give society a floor.
  - kuschku 10y ago
    > Considering how Uber and Lyft are both loosing money as it is... ... maybe they should be subsidized by taxes.
    - pyrale 10y ago
      Maybe they should be subsidized by consumers.
  - icantdrive55 10y ago
    There's a fair amount of drivers who went out and bought a late model four door Uber approved vechicle; in order to get their side hussle on. That's the rub. If Uber allowed any car, and let the customer decide if it was worthy--I wouldn't have a problem. Until Uber supplies the vechicle--I'm all for making them pay minimum wage. I know it seems crazy because we are used to this rediculious Uber model of doing business. I couldn't imagine applying for a taxi cab job, and this is said, "Oh yea--you need to buy the yellow taxi? Is that a problem dude?" And I don't buy the Uber presumption that wanna be drivers just happen to have a late model four door vechicle collecting dust in the garage.
kagamine 10y ago
I have never used the any of the 3 services you describe except the bus, can you or someone else explain how the driver makes less when taking on more passengers? Surely that works in an opposite way to the bus. The more paying passengers using the bus service simultaneously, the greater the margin per vehicle. But for some reason Uber turns this on its head? Note: I am a country bumpkin who grew up in the sticks and still lives in the sticks, I had to learn how to bus as an adult. Forgive my ignorance.
- digitalzombie 10y ago
  > can you or someone else explain how the driver makes less when taking on more passengers? Summer Lyft driver here. As a passenger you get the option to choose to get a ride alone, just you and the lyft driver, to your destination like a taxi. This is the default option and it's the most expensive one. The new option that Uber have and Lyft is doing is pooled rides. Instead of having the Lyft car to yourself, you're willing to share that car with other passengers. Lyft can stop the driver and pick up more passengers that are opting for the pool ride along the way. The one trick to save money is just do the pool ride option and maybe you won't have a passenger to share with if Lyft can't find any other passenger to pool with. Club goers such as a bunch of guys or girls wanting to get a lyft ride to the same destination and are friends usually do the first option. It doesn't count as a pool ride. You're all friends not stranger going to the same place and such. There's other trick but that's not as important. If those club goers or group of friends went pool option that won't work because iirc it's meant for single passenger sharing the car with other passenger.
  - orange_county 10y ago
    But that doesn't explain how the driver gets less money when they pick up more pool riders? The rates goes down when they pick up the 2nd and 3rd rider, but then at the same time they are gaining more fares. So shouldn't that make up for the rate drop? It's pretty obvious why doing pool for one rider is a huge loss, but I'm not quite sure how it is more of a loss if a 2nd or 3rd rider joins in.
    - 10y ago
deusex_ 10y ago
In Europe, your bus fare would be half of the price and probably you would need one or two connections. The public transport is much more developed and to me seems like a much better mass transportation alternative. More ecological, cheaper, less cars overall.
- trustfundbaby 10y ago
  It also helps that Europe and its cities are ... smaller.
  - semi-extrinsic 10y ago
    I don't know if you're thinking about area or population, but by either metric London is bigger than any city in the US, and has a much better public transport system.
    - afarrell 10y ago
      It also helps significantly that London's busses are double-decker and come more often so you don't have to wait as long for a bus you can board. (I lived in Cambridge, MA for many years and this wasn't rare with the #1 bus)
      - sokoloff 10y ago
        The most aggravating thing that I saw about the #1 was it was on a nominally ~10 minute schedule at peak times. Pretty regularly, I'd wait 20+ minutes only to see three #1 buses, nose-to-tail, arriving.
    - argonaut 10y ago
      The New York and Los Angeles metropolitan areas are larger in area than the London metropolitan area The NY metro area is much more populous than London, and the LA metro area is very slightly less populous.
      - 10y ago
empath75 10y ago
Uber pool wasn't meant to be for professional drivers. If he's doing that, he's doing it wrong.
- TulliusCicero 10y ago
  Oh, you sweet summer child. Just because Uber says "ridesharing" doesn't mean it's actually ridesharing.
  - IMTDb 10y ago
    Oh, you sweet summer child. Just because empath75 says "not meant for professional driver" doesn't mean there can't be people doing that for money.
pseud0r 10y ago
Damn Uber is cheap where you live. For me to go to work it would be Uber: $1000 a month, 15 minute drive. Train: $75 a month, takes 5 minutes
- kobeya 10y ago
  Damn trains are fast and frequent and subsidized where you live.
- vacri 10y ago
  Is the train door-to-door?
  - pseud0r 10y ago
    Almost. I have a five minute walk to the office from the train station. While uber might be door-to-door for now, the streets around my office will probably soon be closed for cars that doesn't deliver goods or workers doing construction or maintenance work, so then it wouldn't even be any different from the train.
  - wcummings 10y ago
    My old commute was pretty much door-to-door on the bus, I had to walk one block to the stop and it dumped me right next to the office. Not a bad deal for under $2. If I want to take a train downtown, I can take one of three bus lines to one of two different train lines, all without walking much more than a block. The buses have GPS on them so I don't even have to leave my house until the bus is nearly at the stop. There's also a bike path that gets me 90% of the way from my house to one of the stations. I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't want to pay 5-10x more for Uber to avoid 5 minutes of walking.
    - xyzzy_plugh 10y ago
      Yes, but you are one of likely very few with that experience available. You are beholden to the bus schedule. Your choice of where to live greatly affects your commute. You have to combine multiple transportation options. If the weather is bad, you are exposed to the elements. Uber remedies all of the above, and yes, for a price, but not wholly unreasonable. Sure there will always be less expensive options, but Uber appears to be quite reasonable when you consider the big picture. Is it sustainable? They'll show us. It also has the neat feature of being able to continuously optimise and become more efficient. Most other public transportation does not, is heavily subsidized, and extremely difficult to change.
legulere 10y ago
6 Miles is still pretty doable on a bicycle in around half an hour for the months were the weather fits.
ryhamz 10y ago
The services are there. Cheap and slow or expensive and fast. Right now you're spoiled with cheap and fast, which will change eventually; I'd recommend planning for this. >Sure I want to support those who work for a company that respect them Do you really? Clearly not to the tune of an additional $250 for daily private car service or additional commute time on the buses.
- csydas 10y ago
  > Right now you're spoiled with cheap and fast, which will change eventually; I'd recommend planning for this. I think this is the big picture with Uber right now; Uber subsidizing the costs cannot continue forever, or at least it really doesn't look like they can; if public transit isn't an option for you, then you need to be prepared to accept that your costs right now are not reflective of the actual cost to provide the service. The Uber/Lyft model is very cool and it does meet an important need for many US cities, but unfortunately what is offered now doesn't represent the full cost of supporting such a service. I really appreciate the difficulty you have with your commute - before I moved abroad, I lived in a smaller US city which had tragically experienced a catastrophe with its public transit that resulted in it being even further underfunded. An 3 hour total commute each day does take it out of you, but it's the cost of cities in the US being underfunded for public transit and for cities being designed around everyone owning a car. You can continue to live off Uber for as long as it lasts, but if you're going to have the same commute long term, it might be better to start putting your money and effort towards trying to improve the public transit; most cities have public transit boards/committees that are happy to have people join them, and the more people they can get to assist, the more influence they can have on local and state governments to improve the situation. Being reliant on Uber pretty much means you're reliant on public transportation, so your choices are either be ready to start paying the actual cost, or work to improve the cheaper public transit alternatives.
sundvor 10y ago
Get a bicycle? I can ride 22km (about twice your commute?) in 1 hour in Australia, and that's being overweight and unfit.. sadly can't do it every day but if / when I could do it every day I'd do it much faster too. Alas I'm driving my own car most days (3-4 days a week) and that's about $20 in toll fees and fuel, not including finance, insurance, reggo and maintenance. It takes from 40-60 minutes each way, so a bit but not significantly faster than riding. Still if I used uber I'd be looking at $50 each way, easily making car ownership have lower TCO. There's no Lyft in Melbourne, Australia.
- colmvp 10y ago
  I'm a proponent of bicycles, but I acknowledge they aren't a perfect solution for everyone. A city without proper bike lanes or with drivers with contentious attitudes towards bicyclists can make for a problematic and stressful commute. That's also not getting into weather changes. It's unequivocally true that biking in winter can be more dangerous and less enjoyable than biking in warmer temperatures. I personally quite enjoyed biking in beautiful Melbourne, especially along the Portsea Return. But in my home city, the infrastructure is decades behind a truly safe environment for cyclists. Despite the fact that the city is constantly growing and the mass transit system is barely making ends meet, the city council still bickers over the merits of creating more bike lanes which only add to the "War on the Car."
muse900 10y ago
I find uberpool less useful, at least for me. I used it only 4 times until now and I ended up saving £3-4 while I ended up making circles around London to get home and all 4 times I got home 20-30 minutes later than uberx would take me. Although I dont use uber to commute to work, only when I am going somewhere on my own times, it seems like your issue is a bit more trivial and it all comes down to property values. I think its very common now in major tech cities like SF, London, NY etc that the rents are too expensive and you have to get out on the suburbs to get something. The UK Gov has already recognised the problem with the housing market and of course its planning on doing something but I don't see anything actual coming out of it in the next 10 years. A great idea for lyft or uber would be judging by your case and thinking your not the only one doing it, to have a "commute to work" service or something similar, where they arrhythmicaly merge people like you that commute from around your location to town etc putting in minibuses with certain stops. The data is there, I mean they can clearly see that you are using Uber at a specific time going from A to B repetitively, if they can find another 15 people doing it around you going to the same place as you, why not put a minibus and then charge you a bit less or a monthly fee? (Of course the downside would be that this would reduce uber jobs around).
DigitalJack 10y ago
did I misread that? your commute is 6 miles?
- kobeya 10y ago
  Do you think that is high or low?
  - DigitalJack 10y ago
    Low. Mine is 25 miles, which I consider high. But 6 miles... I'd be trying to bike, or maybe even jog that.
chappi42 10y ago
In the end you are the reason that uber drivers are being paid so little and have such bad working conditions! Btw, couldn't you ride a bike sometimes? 6 miles sounds doable and would, likely, benefit your health.
- conanbatt 10y ago
  If you meant to be sarcastic I still dont get it. If you didnt, why do you attribute the first to the op?
  - chappi42 10y ago
    No sarcasm intended. The op chooses to use uber and profit from low cost fares. He pays little and uber is only able to pay out meagre to their drivers. Uber is not profitable, they cannot pay their drivers better without raising the fares. Isn't this a fact? I didn't mean the op personally, but all who use such a service which imho exploit drivers. One chooses to use such a service and has to shoulder part of the responsability of the bad things that happen at uber atm. The op would have the lyft alternative (which afaics) has (slightly) better conditions and/or use the bus (or the bike, maybe).
    - conanbatt 10y ago
      I think there is a difference on what the driver gets and what someone pays that the consumer is not responsible for. Its like arguing that you should go to the restaurant that gives its waiters the highest salaries. The consumer cannot have that responsibility, because the consumer doesnt agree with the employee what the employee salary is as much as the employee doesn't dictaminate how much the consumer can pay. Plus its reasonable to react to the best incentives you have, and doing otherwise is actually negative: if uber is cheaper for the same its better to use it. This coming from someone that usually takes Lyft, because i dislike Uber, but if i knew i could get a cheaper ride i would use Uber as I have. You dont do anyone a favor by staying unreasonable :)
      - aussie123 10y ago
mbrock 10y ago
As a counterweight against drivers competing for customers on price, maybe customers should compete for social status through publicly verifiable tipping?
_jdams 10y ago
$100 a month for bus? Hahah Try North Jersey to Port Authority NYC - it will cost you $250+ A typical round trip pass for the day costs $23 ($11.50 each way).
- deleted 10y ago
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- jobigoud 10y ago
  I was going to start my comment the same. $100 a month for bus, this is crazy expensive! You guys had me double check. Where I live (750K city in Europe), you get an unlimited pass for 27€/month. It's your fares that are just unbelievable.
Shinchy 10y ago
May I suggest buying a Bicycle?
kakarot 10y ago
I think Uber knows the answer, and that's why from the beginning they have had the ambition of creating an autonomous workforce.
mtw 10y ago
The solution is reliable public transport. The way i see it, Uber is half price because it is sustained by VC money and ever-decreasing pay for drivers. Taxis or Ubers are in theory your own private vehicle or limo. It should be special occasions. Because you're late to the meeting. Or have to go the airport. Or because you had a drink too much. Having a private vehicle for everyday transport is a luxury and it shouldn't be an easy or sustainable option. Unless you are wealthy.
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  This only works in what, 5 - 15% of the US? Public transport isn't viable for commuting in most of the country. If you factor in time and the raise in tax required to subsidize it there it is likely that it is more cost effective to own and maintain a used car.
  - whafro 10y ago
    Perhaps not for most of the country by surface area, but far more than 5-15% of the population could be effectively served by better public transportation.
    - cmdrfred 10y ago
      I agree but the issue becomes any sweeping legislation or tax increase to fund such a program will negatively many millions of people without any benefit to them. These people are marginalized already and can't take a hit like that so their more wealthy counterparts in the cities can have a higher standard of living. It can only really be implemented at the city level in a fair manner, thus it isn't really a national solution.
      - naravara 10y ago
        >I agree but the issue becomes any sweeping legislation or tax increase to fund such a program will negatively many millions of people without any benefit to them. Except, you know. Less drunk driving, less traffic, less pollution, fewer road fatalities, and less tax money spent on road maintenance. Those little things. And what "many millions of people?" Public transit is mostly paid for by municipal taxes, not federal. Federal taxes paid for a bloated highway system that negatively impacts many people even though we have long since hit the point of diminishing returns on more highway infrastructure.
geodel 10y ago
The mass consumer want cheap price like always. For specific rich and conscientious consumer it will also be respect and good treatment of drivers and thinking about these issues. I also believe this type of consumers may be less inclined to think about decisions, they themselves or companies they work for, have made to pay that rather handsome salaries.
driverdan 10y ago
For $850/m you could buy a really nice electric bike and motorcycle with a lot of money left over. Why do you take Uber and Lyft?
- LoonyBalloony 10y ago
  The weather may not permit that option. Although I see people riding bicycles through winter in the city I live in, thats a risk I wouldn't take myself.
  - lqdc13 10y ago
    Bicycling in the winter is fine. I've ridden across a frozen lake on my commute to school on a mountain bicycle for two winters every weekday. Motorcycling in the winter on a street motorcycle with summer tires, on the other hand, is extremely dangerous.
- Jemmeh 10y ago
  They were showing the comparative cost, not total cost. Using Uber all month, it's $250. If they used Lyft all month -instead-, it's $500. Bus -instead- it would be $100. On top of payments, when you factor in insurance and parking fees(stupidly expensive in some cities), taking Uber/Lyft can work out cheaper.
make3 10y ago
bike there! live longer.
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pentae 10y ago
As a consumer, the only power I have to deal with this situation is to tip my drivers who give good service. I actually hate tipping, and think it should be included, but I don't have any control over Ubers business model. So I tip. Unless the driver annoyed me for whatever reason, then I don't.
asah 10y ago
Chariot: $150/mon
notJim 10y ago
I think this is largely a San Francisco problem. In most US cities, you have a car (which is probably cheaper than $850/mo? Certainly can be if you want it to be.) In NYC, and a few other American cities, there's a subway system. For example, I take the subway to and from work every day for ~$150/mo or something. It takes about 30 minutes. It's kind of shocking to me how bad the public transit is in San Francisco when I go there. I think from a consumer perspective, your best bet is to get involved in politics.
soperj 10y ago
Biking 6 miles would probably only take half an hour and would be the cheapest & healthiest option.
kamaal 10y ago
>>frustration of driving all around town only for very small profit. Wasn't this the whole point of Uber. The very reason why people even use Uber is because of this model. A lot of drivers signed up for this because they didn't need to go through the taxi license process or the medallion business. Now complaining the same doesn't work because there are too many driver driving sending up the supply and lowering demand is some what wrong here. What were these drivers thinking. Those regulations existed for a reason.
dmalvarado 10y ago
Ride a bike to a stop on the most direct bus line. Typically, whenever I want to go downtown for a big event, I'll find a busline that goes to that area, then trace its route to the outskirts. I go ride/drive there and take the bus in. Much cheaper, less parking hassle.
cmsj 10y ago
As the huge tree of replies implies, the mistake here is asking for "the" answer. There is no one answer, but wow does everyone think their opinion is the answer :) You can't boil all possible use cases of "transport" down to a single implementation. You can't boil all possible traveller budgets down to a single pricing model. etc. etc. There are many axes for determining the appropriateness of a given mode of transport, for a given person.

yunti 10y ago

The answer is that, you are using a service that is unsustainably too cheap. In the longer term the price will have to increase, probably quite significantly and you'll have to choose whether you think it's still worth it or take the bus. Unfortunately you, and many others are the ones benefitting from drivers being underpaid.

kagamine 10y ago
It's almost like Uberpool could be a privately run bus service using larger vehicles and transporting more people at once, instead of private taxis. Depending on the angle you view it from, perhaps the Uberpool service isn't too cheap, but simply a bad idea from the start, without the infrastructure or a suitable class of vehicle to make it viable.
- jordigh 10y ago
  So... privatised public transportation? Maybe that's what it'll take for the US to improve its public transportation. Having good ol' fashioned private enterprise instead of the government paying for it.
- wcummings 10y ago
  If a bus went down every side street and picked up riders from their house it would take forever to get anywhere, cause bunching etc.. Most people would probably rather walk 5 minutes to a bus stop for a more reliable ride.
patrickaljord 10y ago
> Unfortunately you, and many others are the ones benefitting from drivers being underpaid. To be fair, these drivers would be out of jobs without Uber. They are not qualified enough to find better paying jobs. Being underpaid is still better than not being paid at all. However, there's a limit to how little Uber can pay its drivers before they start looking for better paying jobs elsewhere. Uber needs to balance this with their need to be profitable in order to keep existing. And they're not profitable already in spite of these low wages. If anything, it's Uber who needs to worry about its existence. Drivers will find jobs elsewhere. I think Uber started as a high margin business, which is always a great place to be but they quickly turned into a (very) low/negative margin business because of competition which requires exponential growth and constant injection of money to pay for the growth. The amount of pressure on the ceo must be insane, glad I'm not in his shoes (doesn't justify him being a-hole to his driver though obviously).
- ryhamz 10y ago
  To be even more fair, a huge factor in them being underpaid is that the average driver will have a hard time factoring in depreciation, which hits you on a delay.
  - aedron 10y ago
    Not to mention that Uber pretty much bait-and-switched a lot of drivers, starting with artificially high payouts and then aggressively pushing the price down, fishing money out of the drivers' pockets and making their investments unprofitable. Which is what the driver in the recent video was complaining to Kalanick about.
- jarjoura 10y ago
  That's not entirely fair or accurate to call them out on lack of skill. Many of the drivers I've met along the way over the years have all enjoyed the flexibility. College kids making extra party/food money, stay at home moms who are avoiding being bored. Just the other day I had a driver who was in between jobs and was using the time for interviews. Any serious driver who is full time will most likely move up to the black cars and get private clients over time.
naravara 10y ago
>The answer is that, you are using a service that is unsustainably too cheap. In the longer term the price will have to increase, probably quite significantly and you'll have to choose whether you think it's still worth it or take the bus. Unfortunately you, and many others are the ones benefitting from drivers being underpaid. Uber is already hiring lobbyists with the goal of boondoggling municipalities into providing Uber subsidies in lieu of investing in public transit. They talk a big game about how self-driving cars are what's going to make Uber profitable, but that's just marketing to earn some 'cool points' because that tech won't be ready before the VC funding runs dry. They're banking on public subsidies.

savanaly 10y ago

I think the answer is that as long as both sides agree to it then we let the trade go through (if uber can find someone who would exchange their time for money at the going rate, and you likewise). If the driver is frustrated that uber sets the rate too low, I think what they should be frustrated at is that there is no better alternative use for their time-- or if there is then no company has found out a way to hook them up with it with minimal transaction costs like uber does for ride sharing. More companies that lower transaction costs (these are all the rage in Silicon Valley these days apparently) for this sort of trade would help, as maybe that guy giving you your ride would be better used (and thus slightly better paid) tutoring your kid in math, but the transaction cost of him moving into that line of work is too high. If nothing else exists or can be found that's a good use of their time I'm afraid that's just the breaks. Back to school, or lower your standard of living so that the amount you make is enough. I'm all for a basic income type proposal by the way, but that's a whole other story.

Nutomic 10y ago

This can't really be solved by individual consumers. Instead, the government should introduce laws to ensure that drivers make at least minimum wage (after fuel, maintenance, taxes etc). If that is not enough, it might be necessary to raise the minimum wage.

ZainRiz 10y ago
Considering how Uber and Lyft are both loosing money as it is, using government intervention to force them to pay their drivers more will just increase their chances of going out of business and mean there will be no driving jobs at all. In this situation I'd prefer letting the market decide the prices for drivers. They had jobs before Uber, and if Uber starts paying too little then they can try going back to those kinds of jobs. Ultimately though, as we run out of unskilled jobs, we may need to implement some sort of living wage the government provides to everyone to give society a floor.
- kuschku 10y ago
  > Considering how Uber and Lyft are both loosing money as it is... ... maybe they should be subsidized by taxes.
  - pyrale 10y ago
    Maybe they should be subsidized by consumers.
- icantdrive55 10y ago
  There's a fair amount of drivers who went out and bought a late model four door Uber approved vechicle; in order to get their side hussle on. That's the rub. If Uber allowed any car, and let the customer decide if it was worthy--I wouldn't have a problem. Until Uber supplies the vechicle--I'm all for making them pay minimum wage. I know it seems crazy because we are used to this rediculious Uber model of doing business. I couldn't imagine applying for a taxi cab job, and this is said, "Oh yea--you need to buy the yellow taxi? Is that a problem dude?" And I don't buy the Uber presumption that wanna be drivers just happen to have a late model four door vechicle collecting dust in the garage.

kagamine 10y ago

I have never used the any of the 3 services you describe except the bus, can you or someone else explain how the driver makes less when taking on more passengers? Surely that works in an opposite way to the bus. The more paying passengers using the bus service simultaneously, the greater the margin per vehicle. But for some reason Uber turns this on its head? Note: I am a country bumpkin who grew up in the sticks and still lives in the sticks, I had to learn how to bus as an adult. Forgive my ignorance.

digitalzombie 10y ago
> can you or someone else explain how the driver makes less when taking on more passengers? Summer Lyft driver here. As a passenger you get the option to choose to get a ride alone, just you and the lyft driver, to your destination like a taxi. This is the default option and it's the most expensive one. The new option that Uber have and Lyft is doing is pooled rides. Instead of having the Lyft car to yourself, you're willing to share that car with other passengers. Lyft can stop the driver and pick up more passengers that are opting for the pool ride along the way. The one trick to save money is just do the pool ride option and maybe you won't have a passenger to share with if Lyft can't find any other passenger to pool with. Club goers such as a bunch of guys or girls wanting to get a lyft ride to the same destination and are friends usually do the first option. It doesn't count as a pool ride. You're all friends not stranger going to the same place and such. There's other trick but that's not as important. If those club goers or group of friends went pool option that won't work because iirc it's meant for single passenger sharing the car with other passenger.
- orange_county 10y ago
  But that doesn't explain how the driver gets less money when they pick up more pool riders? The rates goes down when they pick up the 2nd and 3rd rider, but then at the same time they are gaining more fares. So shouldn't that make up for the rate drop? It's pretty obvious why doing pool for one rider is a huge loss, but I'm not quite sure how it is more of a loss if a 2nd or 3rd rider joins in.
  - 10y ago

deusex_ 10y ago

In Europe, your bus fare would be half of the price and probably you would need one or two connections. The public transport is much more developed and to me seems like a much better mass transportation alternative. More ecological, cheaper, less cars overall.

trustfundbaby 10y ago
It also helps that Europe and its cities are ... smaller.
- semi-extrinsic 10y ago
  I don't know if you're thinking about area or population, but by either metric London is bigger than any city in the US, and has a much better public transport system.
  - afarrell 10y ago
    It also helps significantly that London's busses are double-decker and come more often so you don't have to wait as long for a bus you can board. (I lived in Cambridge, MA for many years and this wasn't rare with the #1 bus)
    - sokoloff 10y ago
      The most aggravating thing that I saw about the #1 was it was on a nominally ~10 minute schedule at peak times. Pretty regularly, I'd wait 20+ minutes only to see three #1 buses, nose-to-tail, arriving.
  - argonaut 10y ago
    The New York and Los Angeles metropolitan areas are larger in area than the London metropolitan area The NY metro area is much more populous than London, and the LA metro area is very slightly less populous.
    - 10y ago

empath75 10y ago

Uber pool wasn't meant to be for professional drivers. If he's doing that, he's doing it wrong.

TulliusCicero 10y ago
Oh, you sweet summer child. Just because Uber says "ridesharing" doesn't mean it's actually ridesharing.
- IMTDb 10y ago
  Oh, you sweet summer child. Just because empath75 says "not meant for professional driver" doesn't mean there can't be people doing that for money.

pseud0r 10y ago

Damn Uber is cheap where you live. For me to go to work it would be Uber: $1000 a month, 15 minute drive. Train: $75 a month, takes 5 minutes

kobeya 10y ago
Damn trains are fast and frequent and subsidized where you live.
vacri 10y ago
Is the train door-to-door?
- pseud0r 10y ago
  Almost. I have a five minute walk to the office from the train station. While uber might be door-to-door for now, the streets around my office will probably soon be closed for cars that doesn't deliver goods or workers doing construction or maintenance work, so then it wouldn't even be any different from the train.
- wcummings 10y ago
  My old commute was pretty much door-to-door on the bus, I had to walk one block to the stop and it dumped me right next to the office. Not a bad deal for under $2. If I want to take a train downtown, I can take one of three bus lines to one of two different train lines, all without walking much more than a block. The buses have GPS on them so I don't even have to leave my house until the bus is nearly at the stop. There's also a bike path that gets me 90% of the way from my house to one of the stations. I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't want to pay 5-10x more for Uber to avoid 5 minutes of walking.
  - xyzzy_plugh 10y ago
    Yes, but you are one of likely very few with that experience available. You are beholden to the bus schedule. Your choice of where to live greatly affects your commute. You have to combine multiple transportation options. If the weather is bad, you are exposed to the elements. Uber remedies all of the above, and yes, for a price, but not wholly unreasonable. Sure there will always be less expensive options, but Uber appears to be quite reasonable when you consider the big picture. Is it sustainable? They'll show us. It also has the neat feature of being able to continuously optimise and become more efficient. Most other public transportation does not, is heavily subsidized, and extremely difficult to change.

legulere 10y ago

6 Miles is still pretty doable on a bicycle in around half an hour for the months were the weather fits.

ryhamz 10y ago

The services are there. Cheap and slow or expensive and fast. Right now you're spoiled with cheap and fast, which will change eventually; I'd recommend planning for this. >Sure I want to support those who work for a company that respect them Do you really? Clearly not to the tune of an additional $250 for daily private car service or additional commute time on the buses.

csydas 10y ago
> Right now you're spoiled with cheap and fast, which will change eventually; I'd recommend planning for this. I think this is the big picture with Uber right now; Uber subsidizing the costs cannot continue forever, or at least it really doesn't look like they can; if public transit isn't an option for you, then you need to be prepared to accept that your costs right now are not reflective of the actual cost to provide the service. The Uber/Lyft model is very cool and it does meet an important need for many US cities, but unfortunately what is offered now doesn't represent the full cost of supporting such a service. I really appreciate the difficulty you have with your commute - before I moved abroad, I lived in a smaller US city which had tragically experienced a catastrophe with its public transit that resulted in it being even further underfunded. An 3 hour total commute each day does take it out of you, but it's the cost of cities in the US being underfunded for public transit and for cities being designed around everyone owning a car. You can continue to live off Uber for as long as it lasts, but if you're going to have the same commute long term, it might be better to start putting your money and effort towards trying to improve the public transit; most cities have public transit boards/committees that are happy to have people join them, and the more people they can get to assist, the more influence they can have on local and state governments to improve the situation. Being reliant on Uber pretty much means you're reliant on public transportation, so your choices are either be ready to start paying the actual cost, or work to improve the cheaper public transit alternatives.

sundvor 10y ago

Get a bicycle? I can ride 22km (about twice your commute?) in 1 hour in Australia, and that's being overweight and unfit.. sadly can't do it every day but if / when I could do it every day I'd do it much faster too. Alas I'm driving my own car most days (3-4 days a week) and that's about $20 in toll fees and fuel, not including finance, insurance, reggo and maintenance. It takes from 40-60 minutes each way, so a bit but not significantly faster than riding. Still if I used uber I'd be looking at $50 each way, easily making car ownership have lower TCO. There's no Lyft in Melbourne, Australia.

colmvp 10y ago
I'm a proponent of bicycles, but I acknowledge they aren't a perfect solution for everyone. A city without proper bike lanes or with drivers with contentious attitudes towards bicyclists can make for a problematic and stressful commute. That's also not getting into weather changes. It's unequivocally true that biking in winter can be more dangerous and less enjoyable than biking in warmer temperatures. I personally quite enjoyed biking in beautiful Melbourne, especially along the Portsea Return. But in my home city, the infrastructure is decades behind a truly safe environment for cyclists. Despite the fact that the city is constantly growing and the mass transit system is barely making ends meet, the city council still bickers over the merits of creating more bike lanes which only add to the "War on the Car."

muse900 10y ago

I find uberpool less useful, at least for me. I used it only 4 times until now and I ended up saving £3-4 while I ended up making circles around London to get home and all 4 times I got home 20-30 minutes later than uberx would take me. Although I dont use uber to commute to work, only when I am going somewhere on my own times, it seems like your issue is a bit more trivial and it all comes down to property values. I think its very common now in major tech cities like SF, London, NY etc that the rents are too expensive and you have to get out on the suburbs to get something. The UK Gov has already recognised the problem with the housing market and of course its planning on doing something but I don't see anything actual coming out of it in the next 10 years. A great idea for lyft or uber would be judging by your case and thinking your not the only one doing it, to have a "commute to work" service or something similar, where they arrhythmicaly merge people like you that commute from around your location to town etc putting in minibuses with certain stops. The data is there, I mean they can clearly see that you are using Uber at a specific time going from A to B repetitively, if they can find another 15 people doing it around you going to the same place as you, why not put a minibus and then charge you a bit less or a monthly fee? (Of course the downside would be that this would reduce uber jobs around).

DigitalJack 10y ago

did I misread that? your commute is 6 miles?

kobeya 10y ago
Do you think that is high or low?
- DigitalJack 10y ago
  Low. Mine is 25 miles, which I consider high. But 6 miles... I'd be trying to bike, or maybe even jog that.

chappi42 10y ago

In the end you are the reason that uber drivers are being paid so little and have such bad working conditions! Btw, couldn't you ride a bike sometimes? 6 miles sounds doable and would, likely, benefit your health.

conanbatt 10y ago
If you meant to be sarcastic I still dont get it. If you didnt, why do you attribute the first to the op?
- chappi42 10y ago
  No sarcasm intended. The op chooses to use uber and profit from low cost fares. He pays little and uber is only able to pay out meagre to their drivers. Uber is not profitable, they cannot pay their drivers better without raising the fares. Isn't this a fact? I didn't mean the op personally, but all who use such a service which imho exploit drivers. One chooses to use such a service and has to shoulder part of the responsability of the bad things that happen at uber atm. The op would have the lyft alternative (which afaics) has (slightly) better conditions and/or use the bus (or the bike, maybe).
  - conanbatt 10y ago
    I think there is a difference on what the driver gets and what someone pays that the consumer is not responsible for. Its like arguing that you should go to the restaurant that gives its waiters the highest salaries. The consumer cannot have that responsibility, because the consumer doesnt agree with the employee what the employee salary is as much as the employee doesn't dictaminate how much the consumer can pay. Plus its reasonable to react to the best incentives you have, and doing otherwise is actually negative: if uber is cheaper for the same its better to use it. This coming from someone that usually takes Lyft, because i dislike Uber, but if i knew i could get a cheaper ride i would use Uber as I have. You dont do anyone a favor by staying unreasonable :)
    - aussie123 10y ago

mbrock 10y ago

As a counterweight against drivers competing for customers on price, maybe customers should compete for social status through publicly verifiable tipping?

_jdams 10y ago

$100 a month for bus? Hahah Try North Jersey to Port Authority NYC - it will cost you $250+ A typical round trip pass for the day costs $23 ($11.50 each way).

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jobigoud 10y ago
I was going to start my comment the same. $100 a month for bus, this is crazy expensive! You guys had me double check. Where I live (750K city in Europe), you get an unlimited pass for 27€/month. It's your fares that are just unbelievable.

Shinchy 10y ago

May I suggest buying a Bicycle?

kakarot 10y ago

I think Uber knows the answer, and that's why from the beginning they have had the ambition of creating an autonomous workforce.

mtw 10y ago

The solution is reliable public transport. The way i see it, Uber is half price because it is sustained by VC money and ever-decreasing pay for drivers. Taxis or Ubers are in theory your own private vehicle or limo. It should be special occasions. Because you're late to the meeting. Or have to go the airport. Or because you had a drink too much. Having a private vehicle for everyday transport is a luxury and it shouldn't be an easy or sustainable option. Unless you are wealthy.

cmdrfred 10y ago
This only works in what, 5 - 15% of the US? Public transport isn't viable for commuting in most of the country. If you factor in time and the raise in tax required to subsidize it there it is likely that it is more cost effective to own and maintain a used car.
- whafro 10y ago
  Perhaps not for most of the country by surface area, but far more than 5-15% of the population could be effectively served by better public transportation.
  - cmdrfred 10y ago
    I agree but the issue becomes any sweeping legislation or tax increase to fund such a program will negatively many millions of people without any benefit to them. These people are marginalized already and can't take a hit like that so their more wealthy counterparts in the cities can have a higher standard of living. It can only really be implemented at the city level in a fair manner, thus it isn't really a national solution.
    - naravara 10y ago
      >I agree but the issue becomes any sweeping legislation or tax increase to fund such a program will negatively many millions of people without any benefit to them. Except, you know. Less drunk driving, less traffic, less pollution, fewer road fatalities, and less tax money spent on road maintenance. Those little things. And what "many millions of people?" Public transit is mostly paid for by municipal taxes, not federal. Federal taxes paid for a bloated highway system that negatively impacts many people even though we have long since hit the point of diminishing returns on more highway infrastructure.

geodel 10y ago

The mass consumer want cheap price like always. For specific rich and conscientious consumer it will also be respect and good treatment of drivers and thinking about these issues. I also believe this type of consumers may be less inclined to think about decisions, they themselves or companies they work for, have made to pay that rather handsome salaries.

driverdan 10y ago

For $850/m you could buy a really nice electric bike and motorcycle with a lot of money left over. Why do you take Uber and Lyft?

LoonyBalloony 10y ago
The weather may not permit that option. Although I see people riding bicycles through winter in the city I live in, thats a risk I wouldn't take myself.
- lqdc13 10y ago
  Bicycling in the winter is fine. I've ridden across a frozen lake on my commute to school on a mountain bicycle for two winters every weekday. Motorcycling in the winter on a street motorcycle with summer tires, on the other hand, is extremely dangerous.
Jemmeh 10y ago
They were showing the comparative cost, not total cost. Using Uber all month, it's $250. If they used Lyft all month -instead-, it's $500. Bus -instead- it would be $100. On top of payments, when you factor in insurance and parking fees(stupidly expensive in some cities), taking Uber/Lyft can work out cheaper.

make3 10y ago

bike there! live longer.

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pentae 10y ago

As a consumer, the only power I have to deal with this situation is to tip my drivers who give good service. I actually hate tipping, and think it should be included, but I don't have any control over Ubers business model. So I tip. Unless the driver annoyed me for whatever reason, then I don't.

asah 10y ago

Chariot: $150/mon

notJim 10y ago

I think this is largely a San Francisco problem. In most US cities, you have a car (which is probably cheaper than $850/mo? Certainly can be if you want it to be.) In NYC, and a few other American cities, there's a subway system. For example, I take the subway to and from work every day for ~$150/mo or something. It takes about 30 minutes. It's kind of shocking to me how bad the public transit is in San Francisco when I go there. I think from a consumer perspective, your best bet is to get involved in politics.

soperj 10y ago

Biking 6 miles would probably only take half an hour and would be the cheapest & healthiest option.

kamaal 10y ago

>>frustration of driving all around town only for very small profit. Wasn't this the whole point of Uber. The very reason why people even use Uber is because of this model. A lot of drivers signed up for this because they didn't need to go through the taxi license process or the medallion business. Now complaining the same doesn't work because there are too many driver driving sending up the supply and lowering demand is some what wrong here. What were these drivers thinking. Those regulations existed for a reason.

dmalvarado 10y ago

Ride a bike to a stop on the most direct bus line. Typically, whenever I want to go downtown for a big event, I'll find a busline that goes to that area, then trace its route to the outskirts. I go ride/drive there and take the bus in. Much cheaper, less parking hassle.

cmsj 10y ago

As the huge tree of replies implies, the mistake here is asking for "the" answer. There is no one answer, but wow does everyone think their opinion is the answer :) You can't boil all possible use cases of "transport" down to a single implementation. You can't boil all possible traveller budgets down to a single pricing model. etc. etc. There are many axes for determining the appropriateness of a given mode of transport, for a given person.