6 ms·

> Lyft has in app digital tipping (drivers keep 100% of tips). One of the reasons I don't like Lyft. How about this system: pay the drivers a fair wage up fron

by freyr 10y ago

> Lyft has in app digital tipping (drivers keep 100% of tips). One of the reasons I don't like Lyft. How about this system: pay the drivers a fair wage up front, so they don't need to subsist on the generosity of strangers. If they get great ratings, you can give them a bonus.

partycoder 10y ago
With several ride sharing services waging a war of attrition in terms of fare prices, it is challenging to prevail with higher pricing. Unfortunately many people do not care why prices are lower, they just prefer the cheaper service. Regulations could help setting a limit to that, but then half of the US believes that regulations are bad for businesses and jobs. Part of that is true, but then what is the point of a job that makes you poorer at the end of each day? A workaround are tips. And it is not ideal, I concur on that, but it is more viable than getting the government to regulate ridesharing jobs to ensure a minimum wage or teaching people at a large to be socially responsible.
dietrichepp 10y ago
This is a complaint against American culture in a broader sense, not really Lyft specifically. Valid complaint for sure, just misdirected.
- freyr 10y ago
  No, it's a complaint against Lyft since they made a conscious decision to include tipping, while their main competitor demonstrated that modern American companies do not need to bow to stupid customs. [edit: shouldn't have implied that Uber is financially successful]
  - teach 10y ago
    I think it's still an open question whether Uber has shown that "American companies can be successful." They are losing hundreds of millions per quarter and are only still afloat due to venture capital.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - smileysteve 10y ago
    > their main competitor demonstrated that American companies can be successful without bowing to stupid customs. And then Uber bent in May 2016.
    - selestify 10y ago
      What happened then? I still do not tip
      - smileysteve 10y ago
        They officially changed tipping policy as a result of a contractor/employee lawsuit. Drivers are now allowed to ask for tips, have tip "jars", etc.
  - azernik 10y ago
    That same competitor pays its drivers less (Lyft takes a smaller cut than Uber). So in this case, tipping has not served as an excuse to pay employees/"contractors" less than the competition.
pkaye 10y ago
Lyft has already split the fare 20% for themselves and 80% for the driver. Lets assume there is an additional tip of 20% kept by the driver so effectively a bulk of the fare. Now is that by itself equal to a living wage or does the fare need to go up? If the fare goes up will consumers continue to use the service?
rimantas 10y ago
I thought drivers are not employees…
marcell 10y ago
You can think of it as something similar to price discrimination: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination
mc32 10y ago
Exactly! Charge me what you're going to charge. None of this tipping nonsense. It's really a vestige of former times when if someone felt nice enough they'd offer you a tip --not that you deserved it, but it was to show they had heart, a kind of virtue signal. Why would Lyft want to continue this anachronistic idea which puts the burden on a fare? It's the number one reason I do not use Lyft.
- yladiz 10y ago
  The number one reason you don't use Lyft is because of tipping? What do you use instead, Uber, taxi, or do you drive? If it's the first, how do you justify using Uber when its practices are significantly worse than an optional tipping for the users? If it's the second, how do you justify using a taxi when tips (in the US) are almost mandatory?
  - mc32 10y ago
    Uber. It's just mentally easier to deal with. After spending time in other countries, I have come to dislike tipping. Having to decide --do they deserve it, do they not? I don't want to deal with it. Tipping used to be an optional thing in transactions but it has become pervasive. Tipping jars. Just charge me more and pay the barista a wage a highschooler or recent graduate can live on.
    - eropple 10y ago
      I agree with you that tipping sucks, but using Uber doesn't the functional reliance on it go away, it just means you don't see it (and the people working for you can't benefit from it). That's not an awesome look.
    - duiker101 10y ago
      But that is what Lyft is doing... they charge your more to give a little more to the driver. And on top of that they offer the tipping. On the other hand Uber pays less and doesn't offer tipping. The worse of both worlds. I agree with you on tipping but your reasoning seems to need some work.
balladeer 10y ago
Why is that sentiment (general sentiment, not just yours) different in case of restaurants? When I meet Americans and when I leave w/o tipping, which is not common but normal where I live, they feel really offended and sometimes, I suspect, they might have thought they have to hangout with stingy persons like me. I am not sure whether I am meeting a very different kind of Americans or it's ingrained in the culture there in US. Problem is they are usually not even willing to see that it's a different culture here, or that we tip based on the service and/or the fact whether the restaurant charges a "service charge" or not (it's additional to service tax).
- usaphp 10y ago
  Do you leave no tips in America or in your home country?
lightcatcher 10y ago
I give about 30% of my Lyft drivers a tip, and I'm glad Lyft includes the option in their app. I've occasionally wanted to tip an Uber driver but then not had cash on me. I don't think it's reasonable to expect ride share companies to pay their drivers a fair wage when they are in fierce competition with each other and self-driving cars are on the horizon. I agree "mandatory" tipping like in US restaurants isn't a great system. I don't think including tipping in an app with a default of $0 makes it close to mandatory. Lyft could give stats on what fractions of rides have a tip given; my bet is it that it's relatively low. Making optional tipping easier is a good thing.
- MichaelApproved 10y ago
  > I don't think it's reasonable to expect ride share companies to pay their drivers a fair wage It's always reasonable to expect companies to pay their people a fair wage.
  - lightcatcher 10y ago
    So if you were running Uber, would you increase your prices to pay a more fair wage even if it makes you more expensive than competitors? Would you expect to stay in business if you offered a commodity like transport at 20% higher prices than competitors?
    - smileysteve 10y ago
      If it weren't for the contractor lawsuit, I think Uber should have kept it's anti-tipping policy. The 'Premium' image was black cars, inspected cars, and no need to tip.
    - IanCal 10y ago
      Is it a particularly ethical standpoint to say "I don't pay my driver's a fair wage, but if I did then I wouldn't make money!"? I would rather have companies be forced to pay a reasonable minimum wage and compete by improving the service or efficiency, not just pushing the employees to work for less and less.
inflagranti 10y ago
That's exactly why I like it. This either tip or living wage thinking is so American! How about both!? I want the easy option to tip someone for exceptional service, but I also want them to get payed well enough to not feel obliged to.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- freyr 10y ago
  What do you consider exceptional Lyft service? Exceptional, by definition, is rare. Having an easy option for a rare event is usually bad UI.
Bahamut 10y ago
But if you're using it as a point of Uber above Lyft, keep in mind that Lyft gives its drivers a higher percent of what it charges in addition to allowing to tip...which is much more in Lyft's favor. The complaint should be more towards Uber not paying enough wages than "I don't like tipping" if one is making a living wage argument. You also still don't have to tip if you don't want to.
digitalzombie 10y ago
Or you can not tip them. You can just leave the car and never tip them at all. They won't know it until you confirm and decide on tip or not. I was a lyft driver for summer.
mahyarm 10y ago
One driver told me that lyft kept a portion of tips until you've covered a portion of some incentive. Thats the annoying thing about digital tips and most of this crap, there is no real transparency on who gets what. If you really want to make sure a driver keeps a tip, just give it to them directly in cash.
lordnacho 10y ago
It's not a great system, tipping the way it's done in cabs, restaurants, and "door-opening" (I only see those guys when I'm in America, no idea what to call them). But people have come to rely on it, and there'd be fewer people working those types of jobs if there wasn't some extra money from the customers. If there was a collective way to tell the tipping industry to change, I think a lot of people would be for it. But for now it feels like you're taking away something they reasonably expect if you don't tip.
- gm-conspiracy 10y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doorman_(profession) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doorman_(profession)
- freyr 10y ago
  > there'd be fewer people working those types of jobs if there wasn't some extra money from the customers. And somehow, Europe isn't suffering from a massive taxi driver and server shortage. And here in the U.S., there is no shortage of Uber drivers. > for now it feels like you're taking away something they reasonably expect if you don't tip. Uber drivers never relied on or expected tips. Uber seized the opportunity to change expectations and disrupt the payment model, and customers seem to like it. "This is the way it's always been done" isn't a solid argument IMO.
agumonkey 10y ago
Are you European ? tipping seems to be a big habit in the U.S
- freyr 10y ago
  No, but traveling to Europe for work helped to change perspective.
zenlikethat 10y ago
You don't have to tip, it's just an option to do it in-app. "pay the drivers a fair wage up front" => If Lyft charged more they'd have fewer customers. Uber didn't even bother with tips and takes a higher cut, so drivers make less on Uber already, I don't see what's wrong with optional tipping.

by freyr 10y ago

partycoder 10y ago

With several ride sharing services waging a war of attrition in terms of fare prices, it is challenging to prevail with higher pricing. Unfortunately many people do not care why prices are lower, they just prefer the cheaper service. Regulations could help setting a limit to that, but then half of the US believes that regulations are bad for businesses and jobs. Part of that is true, but then what is the point of a job that makes you poorer at the end of each day? A workaround are tips. And it is not ideal, I concur on that, but it is more viable than getting the government to regulate ridesharing jobs to ensure a minimum wage or teaching people at a large to be socially responsible.

dietrichepp 10y ago

This is a complaint against American culture in a broader sense, not really Lyft specifically. Valid complaint for sure, just misdirected.

freyr 10y ago
No, it's a complaint against Lyft since they made a conscious decision to include tipping, while their main competitor demonstrated that modern American companies do not need to bow to stupid customs. [edit: shouldn't have implied that Uber is financially successful]
- teach 10y ago
  I think it's still an open question whether Uber has shown that "American companies can be successful." They are losing hundreds of millions per quarter and are only still afloat due to venture capital.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- smileysteve 10y ago
  > their main competitor demonstrated that American companies can be successful without bowing to stupid customs. And then Uber bent in May 2016.
  - selestify 10y ago
    What happened then? I still do not tip
    - smileysteve 10y ago
      They officially changed tipping policy as a result of a contractor/employee lawsuit. Drivers are now allowed to ask for tips, have tip "jars", etc.
- azernik 10y ago
  That same competitor pays its drivers less (Lyft takes a smaller cut than Uber). So in this case, tipping has not served as an excuse to pay employees/"contractors" less than the competition.

pkaye 10y ago

Lyft has already split the fare 20% for themselves and 80% for the driver. Lets assume there is an additional tip of 20% kept by the driver so effectively a bulk of the fare. Now is that by itself equal to a living wage or does the fare need to go up? If the fare goes up will consumers continue to use the service?

rimantas 10y ago

I thought drivers are not employees…

marcell 10y ago

You can think of it as something similar to price discrimination: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_discrimination

mc32 10y ago

Exactly! Charge me what you're going to charge. None of this tipping nonsense. It's really a vestige of former times when if someone felt nice enough they'd offer you a tip --not that you deserved it, but it was to show they had heart, a kind of virtue signal. Why would Lyft want to continue this anachronistic idea which puts the burden on a fare? It's the number one reason I do not use Lyft.

yladiz 10y ago
The number one reason you don't use Lyft is because of tipping? What do you use instead, Uber, taxi, or do you drive? If it's the first, how do you justify using Uber when its practices are significantly worse than an optional tipping for the users? If it's the second, how do you justify using a taxi when tips (in the US) are almost mandatory?
- mc32 10y ago
  Uber. It's just mentally easier to deal with. After spending time in other countries, I have come to dislike tipping. Having to decide --do they deserve it, do they not? I don't want to deal with it. Tipping used to be an optional thing in transactions but it has become pervasive. Tipping jars. Just charge me more and pay the barista a wage a highschooler or recent graduate can live on.
  - eropple 10y ago
    I agree with you that tipping sucks, but using Uber doesn't the functional reliance on it go away, it just means you don't see it (and the people working for you can't benefit from it). That's not an awesome look.
  - duiker101 10y ago
    But that is what Lyft is doing... they charge your more to give a little more to the driver. And on top of that they offer the tipping. On the other hand Uber pays less and doesn't offer tipping. The worse of both worlds. I agree with you on tipping but your reasoning seems to need some work.

balladeer 10y ago

Why is that sentiment (general sentiment, not just yours) different in case of restaurants? When I meet Americans and when I leave w/o tipping, which is not common but normal where I live, they feel really offended and sometimes, I suspect, they might have thought they have to hangout with stingy persons like me. I am not sure whether I am meeting a very different kind of Americans or it's ingrained in the culture there in US. Problem is they are usually not even willing to see that it's a different culture here, or that we tip based on the service and/or the fact whether the restaurant charges a "service charge" or not (it's additional to service tax).

usaphp 10y ago
Do you leave no tips in America or in your home country?

lightcatcher 10y ago

I give about 30% of my Lyft drivers a tip, and I'm glad Lyft includes the option in their app. I've occasionally wanted to tip an Uber driver but then not had cash on me. I don't think it's reasonable to expect ride share companies to pay their drivers a fair wage when they are in fierce competition with each other and self-driving cars are on the horizon. I agree "mandatory" tipping like in US restaurants isn't a great system. I don't think including tipping in an app with a default of $0 makes it close to mandatory. Lyft could give stats on what fractions of rides have a tip given; my bet is it that it's relatively low. Making optional tipping easier is a good thing.

MichaelApproved 10y ago
> I don't think it's reasonable to expect ride share companies to pay their drivers a fair wage It's always reasonable to expect companies to pay their people a fair wage.
- lightcatcher 10y ago
  So if you were running Uber, would you increase your prices to pay a more fair wage even if it makes you more expensive than competitors? Would you expect to stay in business if you offered a commodity like transport at 20% higher prices than competitors?
  - smileysteve 10y ago
    If it weren't for the contractor lawsuit, I think Uber should have kept it's anti-tipping policy. The 'Premium' image was black cars, inspected cars, and no need to tip.
  - IanCal 10y ago
    Is it a particularly ethical standpoint to say "I don't pay my driver's a fair wage, but if I did then I wouldn't make money!"? I would rather have companies be forced to pay a reasonable minimum wage and compete by improving the service or efficiency, not just pushing the employees to work for less and less.

inflagranti 10y ago

That's exactly why I like it. This either tip or living wage thinking is so American! How about both!? I want the easy option to tip someone for exceptional service, but I also want them to get payed well enough to not feel obliged to.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
freyr 10y ago
What do you consider exceptional Lyft service? Exceptional, by definition, is rare. Having an easy option for a rare event is usually bad UI.

Bahamut 10y ago

But if you're using it as a point of Uber above Lyft, keep in mind that Lyft gives its drivers a higher percent of what it charges in addition to allowing to tip...which is much more in Lyft's favor. The complaint should be more towards Uber not paying enough wages than "I don't like tipping" if one is making a living wage argument. You also still don't have to tip if you don't want to.

digitalzombie 10y ago

Or you can not tip them. You can just leave the car and never tip them at all. They won't know it until you confirm and decide on tip or not. I was a lyft driver for summer.

mahyarm 10y ago

One driver told me that lyft kept a portion of tips until you've covered a portion of some incentive. Thats the annoying thing about digital tips and most of this crap, there is no real transparency on who gets what. If you really want to make sure a driver keeps a tip, just give it to them directly in cash.

lordnacho 10y ago

It's not a great system, tipping the way it's done in cabs, restaurants, and "door-opening" (I only see those guys when I'm in America, no idea what to call them). But people have come to rely on it, and there'd be fewer people working those types of jobs if there wasn't some extra money from the customers. If there was a collective way to tell the tipping industry to change, I think a lot of people would be for it. But for now it feels like you're taking away something they reasonably expect if you don't tip.

gm-conspiracy 10y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doorman_(profession) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doorman_(profession)
freyr 10y ago
> there'd be fewer people working those types of jobs if there wasn't some extra money from the customers. And somehow, Europe isn't suffering from a massive taxi driver and server shortage. And here in the U.S., there is no shortage of Uber drivers. > for now it feels like you're taking away something they reasonably expect if you don't tip. Uber drivers never relied on or expected tips. Uber seized the opportunity to change expectations and disrupt the payment model, and customers seem to like it. "This is the way it's always been done" isn't a solid argument IMO.

agumonkey 10y ago

Are you European ? tipping seems to be a big habit in the U.S

freyr 10y ago
No, but traveling to Europe for work helped to change perspective.

zenlikethat 10y ago

You don't have to tip, it's just an option to do it in-app. "pay the drivers a fair wage up front" => If Lyft charged more they'd have fewer customers. Uber didn't even bother with tips and takes a higher cut, so drivers make less on Uber already, I don't see what's wrong with optional tipping.