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Forgive me if this is me being dense, but from an outsider's perspective I don't understand what makes Lyft any better than Uber. Neither company properly cate

Forgive me if this is me being dense, but from an outsider's perspective I don't understand what makes Lyft any better than Uber. Neither company properly categorizes their drivers (as employees), both have a rather sizeable cut from fares, both depended on being basically illegal cabs--except for Uber Black, which uses licensed black car services--to get started, and neither has a financially viable business model. Why is either business the cat's meow?

late2part 10y ago
Because the industry (TAM) is very large and they generate a tremendous amount of revenue. Because their platform is considered very scalable and once they get it figured out they could operate at much lower margins and make more profit. The problem is they're not profitable today.
Kalium 10y ago
In a lot of places, Uber/Lyft is a significantly better experience. The cars show up when you call them - reliably and quickly. The drivers don't long-haul you to rip you off. They go places taxis won't to pick you up. They're generally cheaper and cleaner. Ten years ago, taxis were terrible. Even in San Francisco. Now there's Uber and Lyft.
- prawn 10y ago
  The question wasn't really why are they better than taxis, but why is Lyft considered a more ethical business than Uber, which has faced criticism, especially recently.
  - mikeyouse 10y ago
    Admittedly one of the first reasons I preferred Uber to taxis was that I didn't have to deal with tipping but Lyft does at least offer the option whereas Uber drivers are left with whatever scraps the company decides to throw them that week.
    - smileysteve 10y ago
      Uber's official tipping policy changed last year to suggest that drivers can ask for tips, have tip jars, and HBR suggests trade tips for reviews. https://hbr.org/2016/05/ubers-new-tipping-policy-is-a-mistake https://hbr.org/2016/05/ubers-new-tipping-policy-is-a-mistak... An uber driver even offered square for tip.
  - techsupporter 10y ago
    That's what I was getting at, thank you. I understand that taxis are regarded as horrible but I don't get why Lyft is seen as "the better way" (either by investors or customers) when Uber is increasingly reviled. Lyft has the same systemic flaws as Uber but does so behind a pink mustache and a CEO that seems a bit more restrained. Neither company took the opportunity to "fix" a broken taxi system by ensuring that both drivers and passengers get a better deal. If anything, it looks like Uber and Lyft looked at the taxi industry and said "hey, if we made that into an app, we can make bank for ourselves while incrementally shafting the very people we need for our service!" and proceeded to do so and Lyft does so in a more camouflaged way.
    - cgag 10y ago
      Seems likely to me that many of the 100k+ Lyft/Uber drivers are better off than they were before Lyft and Uber.
    - bendoernberg 10y ago
      Setting aside the merits of Lyft, everyone is watching to see what consequences Uber experiences as a result of their chronic antisocial behavior. If people continue to use Uber and their business succeeds, it sends a message to other companies that treating workers humanely is optional and unnecessary. Even if Lyft is substantively identical, there is still signaling value in punishing Uber and helps establish norms. Weak, but better than nothing.
    - Fomite 10y ago
      "...and a CEO that seems a bit more restrained." When distinguishing between two effectively identical products, something like "The CEO seems less of an asshole" is a perfectly reasonable means of differentiating.
    - jschwartzi 10y ago
      I would rather not give money to a company which pays Mike #2's salary.
  - ironchef 10y ago
    I know one nice thing was last I knew they were like ... half female executives. So they would appear to be doing better on diversity issues than most of the valley. Anecdata I know...
Vadoff 10y ago
It's not any better, but it's also worth less than 1/10th the valuation of the other, meaning it could be undervalued in comparison.
WaxProlix 10y ago
Lyft differentiates itself by throwing slightly more scraps to the drivers and not being Uber. It's shit, but cabbies aren't exactly working with a full benefits package and stock options either. I agree that Lyft is only marginally better than Uber, but it's hard to know where to go when basically every service industry seems to exist to exploit workers for profit. Do you just walk everywhere? Go live in the woods? It's a shit deal but we live in this system - worrying about 'ethical' consumption choices rather than trying to untangle root causes can feel like missing the point. Not that there's much chance of meaningful change there, either. Idunno.
- techsupporter 10y ago
  > it's hard to know where to go when basically every service industry seems to exist to exploit workers for profit No argument there. I completely agree (with the caveat that some small niches or niche companies seem to be "playing fair" but they're, by far, the exception than he rule). > Do you just walk everywhere? Go live in the woods? I intentionally didn't mention it, but since you asked: I don't use either service because of my objections to them. Where I live, public transit and bicycle infrastructure is pretty good--at least compared to most of North America--so if I can't get there by train, bus, bike, rented or friend's car (when going as a group), or my own two feet, I just don't go. I 197% recognize that this is a choice that many people don't get to make, but I don't think it invalidates the question of "why is Lyft seen as so much better than Uber?"
  - WaxProlix 10y ago
    Sure - I take a bus to work and back, light rail around town, bike when weather permits, walk and eat/drink/shop local. I still take a Lyft when I go out and get drunk or whatever - not a real alternative out there.
envy2 10y ago
It's not—and anyone who says that it is is deluding themselves. I think we've reached the point where ridesharing apps are 100% a commodity: there's no real product differentiation, so I'll choose based on price and how long it'll take the car to arrive. Lyft drivers seem 'happier,' but that hasn't translated into anything significantly different for me in terms of ride quality. This won't be a popular opinion, but I think most drivers—on both services—are too entitled and have unrealistic expectations. Having a driver's license and a car is not rare in the US: it's a job that requires less specialized training/skill than being a fry cook at McDonald's, and should be compensated accordingly. The drivers who are happy are the ones who recognize this and do it to make some extra cash in their spare time after a 'real' job; the ones who are upset are trying to make their living driving. While I sympathize with the latter breed, they're in a dying occupation that's about to be automated out of existence within the next ~5 years.
- hackernewsacct 10y ago
  There are some flaws in your assumptions. You assume everyone that drives has the same license and that driving requires little skill. Some speciality driving requires skills. These drivers have to have Class A CDL licenses and have to pass training. I highly doubt automated vechiles will obselete every driving job that requires a CDL license in the next 5 years. Eventually? Quite possibly. But in 5 years? Most likely no. I'm not claiming every Uber / Lyft driver has a CDL license (most probably don't). But to claim driving requires no special skill is false. There are certain situations that require very specialized driving skills.
  - envy2 10y ago
    I'd be shocked if any significant number of UberX and Lyft drivers had a CDL. Even in NYC, where a TLC license and commercial insurance is required, drivers still don't need a CDL. Some driving definitely requires specialized skills, but driving a Prius around SF or $random_american_city isn't it. Autonomous vehicles have gotten quite good, and I can easily see them filling the taxi/Uber use case by 2022.
    - 10y ago
FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago
I don't know what Lyft's corporate culture is like, but I'd rather not support a company whose attitude towards women is like Sterling Cooper Draper Price or where corporate advancement is a Game of Thrones, lest other firms see this as a model to emulate and these behaviors proliferate. I don't want to work in a corporate culture that resembles a preppy/bro boys club that thinks darwinism is a theory you can apply socially Also, Lyft gives me the option of tipping the driver with my card, which I generally do if the driver provides something more than just transportation from point A to B. Some drivers have told me and a first date a series of jokes, thus being a great icebreaker. Others have helped me carry my drunk friend to the door. I don't like to carry cash and I find Uber's policy to be a commodification of an essentially human experience and almost dehumanizing. A lot of times, I don't tip and I don't feel a whit of guilt about it.
verandaguy 10y ago
I think it boils down to PR and ethics at this point. From a consumer's point of view, both services offer a convenience layer over taxis: you have an online account that hooks into your credit card, which means you can just summon a car using your magic pocket computer, step inside, talk to the (generally friendlier-and-more-sociable-than-a-cab-driver) driver, and get out at your destination without having to guide the driver around the city, or having to take your wallet out of your pocket. That they're priced similarly (and frequently lower) than regular cabs means both of these apps are in demand, period. The convenience layer makes them competitive against cabs even at equal fares. If Lyft and Uber are essentially identical (which is arguable), then putting their company culture and PR under scrutiny is fair game and the natural direction consumers will go in.
smileysteve 10y ago
The key points are - CEO never blackmailed journalists - No major revelations of sexual harassment - ~~No major revelations of political support~~ Related to core business - Surge Limit has prevented complaints about emergency pricing vs Uber. - Lyft takes a lower commission capped at 20%/25% - Lyft has in app digital tipping (drivers keep 100% of tips). Uber's tip policy encourages cash, which is an often cited complaint of taxis. - Major investment / partnership with GM (mentioned in an Uber thread that Car Makers will need a cheap / reasonably priced app)
- jbw976 10y ago
  the in app tipping that lyft provides is what seals the deal for me. the drivers are performing a service for me and having an integrated way to enhance their compensation is really nice. a lot of the drivers have a hard time making a good living especially considering vehicle related costs are all on their shoulders. I'm happy to have a 1-click way to give them a bit extra. I've never understood why uber doesn't let you tip from within the app. it further solidifies the perception that uber doesn't care about its drivers. they can't wait to replace all their human drivers with a self driving fleet. can the same be said about lyft? maybe. but at least the humans are being compensated better by lyft right now.
  - mdorazio 10y ago
    Counterpoint: one of the reasons I prefer Uber is that it doesn't allow or encourage in-app tipping. Tipping sucks, is economically dysfunctional, and socially awkward. If the drivers aren't making enough from base fares then the fares need to go up - it's not my job to be a charity.
    - kemayo 10y ago
      I completely agree, and was halfway through writing a similar comment when I saw your post. I actively make choices for things like transit and food which reduce how much I have to think about tipping. I don't like having to judge someone's service, and decide how much it's appropriate to tip them based on some unwritten societal rule. The signal that hiding tips away sends is "the service provider is being compensated already", and if you want to make an extra effort to pay them more you can, but it's not required of you. I'm absolutely in favor of Uber/Lift charging whatever is necessary to pay their drivers properly. Similarly, I love no-tip restaurants which pay their servers and kitchen staff living wages.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
tn13 10y ago
Lyft has chosen a pink mustache as their symbol. Being number 2 they have sympathy of the leftist hippies as they dont like anyone succeeding.
prostoalex 10y ago
> from an outsider's perspective I don't understan I don't either, but it's related to the outsider status. Questions I'd be asking would revolve around unit economics - average gross and net revenues off a ride, average rides per driver per month, average rides per user per month, average driver retention and churn, average user retention and churn, all of the above in historic context broken down per market. Presumably sophisicated investors at this stage are asking for such numbers and base their valuations on cashflow. It's not a pure software business with winner-take-all mentality, Lyft is a Lowe's to Uber's Home Depot.
prostoalex 10y ago
> from an outsider's perspective I don't understan I don't either, but it's related to the outsider status. Questions I'd be asking would revolve around unit economics - average gross and net revenues off a ride, average rides per driver per month, average rides per user per month, average driver retention and churn, average user retention and churn, all of the above in historic context broken down per market. Presumably sophisicated investors at this stage are asking for such numbers and base their valuations on cashflow. It's not a pure software business with winner-take-all mentality, Lyft is a Lowe's to Uber's Home Depot.
dawnerd 10y ago
I feel Uber does a (slightly) better job vetting their drivers. I've had a few very questionable rides with Lyft. Most drivers are great but I've had more bad drivers on lyft.
- Fomite 10y ago
  I've had more poor, "I'm in a taxi cab in all but name" drives on Uber.
  - fernandotakai 10y ago
    feels like it's city based. i definitely had bad rides on uber in nyc but only had great ones in sf. in my own town, uber is light-years ahead of taxi drivers. to the point where my parents are using uber (and they are really averse to technology)
    - Fomite 10y ago
      Yeah - I didn't mention it, but the variable that seems to drive the majority of the variability for me is "Where am I?"
  - erroneousfunk 10y ago
    I used to have those a lot, but I think Uber's eliminated a lot of the "off duty taxi drivers" in the last couple years. I used to get picked up by literal taxi cabs when I called for an Uber pretty frequently. Now, "marked, taxi, or salvage vehicles" are not allowed.
pbreit 10y ago
You have a few faulty assumptions: the contractor classification is reasonable, many disagree it is or should be illegal, business model is money-printing machine. They are somewhat interchangeable but have quite different brandings.
JumpCrisscross 10y ago
> Why is either business the cat's meow? I have, for years, commented on Uber's savvy relative to Airbnb [1]. This was partly due to Uber's retention of Obama's campaign manager, David Plouffe [2]. Unfortunately, he left for the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative in January [3]. Uber's problems are, 80%, a PR scandal. #DeleteUber started when Uber seemed to interfere with a taxi strike at New York City's JFK airport [4]. Uber cancelled its surcharge at 7:36PM; the taxi union scheduled the strike, at 4:55PM, for between 6 and 7PM [5]. Biggest winner? Peter Thiel--numpties jumped to Lyft. Almost everyone else rallied against his competitor. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6521376#6521700 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6521376#6521700 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Plouffe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Plouffe [3] http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/10/ubers-david-plouffe-to-join-chan-zuckerberg.html http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/10/ubers-david-plouffe-to-join-c... [4] http://www.businessinsider.com/delete-uber-hashtag-jfk-airport-taxi-strikes-2017-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/delete-uber-hashtag-jfk-airpo... [5] https://www.axios.com/uber-didnt-deserve-deleteuber-2225893201.html https://www.axios.com/uber-didnt-deserve-deleteuber-22258932...
justinzollars 10y ago
I use Lyft because I am able to tip the driver. Also if you ask the drivers which platform they prefer typically they say Lyft treats them better. That is my reason.
hueving 10y ago
Many people have no problem with the contractor model or disrupting the ridiculous cab system. However, systemic sexual harassment and a generally abusive CEO is not something most people want to support.
- jimmywanger 10y ago
  > However, systemic sexual harassment That has yet to be proven with any sort of evidence other than an uncorroborated blog post or two.
cwp 10y ago
I don't feel Lyft is some paragon of virtue. AFAICT they're a regular Silicon Valley tech company with all of the usual tensions associated with that. The service they provide is a huge improvement on what came before, but there are privacy concerns related to the data they collect and use for business purposes. They'll probably push the envelope a bit on what they can do with that information, and then back down whenever there's significant pushback. Uber, on the other hand, is a cesspool. It's run by sociopaths who think business success confers moral authority, and are quite annoyed with all the hullaballoo about "right" and "wrong" that their actions periodically provoke. I have no problem with their business model, but I will not use Uber. I don't trust them with my credit card, and I don't want them tracking my movements.
digitalzombie 10y ago
Uh.... Uber vetting is weak compare to Lyft. They're both may not be super stringent but I've seen Uber vetting process and Lyft. Lyft was felt much better compare to Uber.
imh 10y ago
On iphone, uber's app now requires you to give it permission to see your location always, regardless of whether the app is open. With lyft, the app only needs my location while it is open. That's a huge one in my book. The day uber updated and said it had to track me 24/7 was the day I deleted it.
Apocryphon 10y ago
Tonight I've learned that Uber, on iOS, tracks the user's location even when the app is inactive, for at least ten minutes after a ride is over. Lyft only tracks location while a ride is in session. Would like someone to confirm this.

late2part 10y ago

Because the industry (TAM) is very large and they generate a tremendous amount of revenue. Because their platform is considered very scalable and once they get it figured out they could operate at much lower margins and make more profit. The problem is they're not profitable today.

Kalium 10y ago

In a lot of places, Uber/Lyft is a significantly better experience. The cars show up when you call them - reliably and quickly. The drivers don't long-haul you to rip you off. They go places taxis won't to pick you up. They're generally cheaper and cleaner. Ten years ago, taxis were terrible. Even in San Francisco. Now there's Uber and Lyft.

prawn 10y ago
The question wasn't really why are they better than taxis, but why is Lyft considered a more ethical business than Uber, which has faced criticism, especially recently.
- mikeyouse 10y ago
  Admittedly one of the first reasons I preferred Uber to taxis was that I didn't have to deal with tipping but Lyft does at least offer the option whereas Uber drivers are left with whatever scraps the company decides to throw them that week.
  - smileysteve 10y ago
    Uber's official tipping policy changed last year to suggest that drivers can ask for tips, have tip jars, and HBR suggests trade tips for reviews. https://hbr.org/2016/05/ubers-new-tipping-policy-is-a-mistake https://hbr.org/2016/05/ubers-new-tipping-policy-is-a-mistak... An uber driver even offered square for tip.
- techsupporter 10y ago
  That's what I was getting at, thank you. I understand that taxis are regarded as horrible but I don't get why Lyft is seen as "the better way" (either by investors or customers) when Uber is increasingly reviled. Lyft has the same systemic flaws as Uber but does so behind a pink mustache and a CEO that seems a bit more restrained. Neither company took the opportunity to "fix" a broken taxi system by ensuring that both drivers and passengers get a better deal. If anything, it looks like Uber and Lyft looked at the taxi industry and said "hey, if we made that into an app, we can make bank for ourselves while incrementally shafting the very people we need for our service!" and proceeded to do so and Lyft does so in a more camouflaged way.
  - cgag 10y ago
    Seems likely to me that many of the 100k+ Lyft/Uber drivers are better off than they were before Lyft and Uber.
  - bendoernberg 10y ago
    Setting aside the merits of Lyft, everyone is watching to see what consequences Uber experiences as a result of their chronic antisocial behavior. If people continue to use Uber and their business succeeds, it sends a message to other companies that treating workers humanely is optional and unnecessary. Even if Lyft is substantively identical, there is still signaling value in punishing Uber and helps establish norms. Weak, but better than nothing.
  - Fomite 10y ago
    "...and a CEO that seems a bit more restrained." When distinguishing between two effectively identical products, something like "The CEO seems less of an asshole" is a perfectly reasonable means of differentiating.
  - jschwartzi 10y ago
    I would rather not give money to a company which pays Mike #2's salary.
- ironchef 10y ago
  I know one nice thing was last I knew they were like ... half female executives. So they would appear to be doing better on diversity issues than most of the valley. Anecdata I know...

Vadoff 10y ago

It's not any better, but it's also worth less than 1/10th the valuation of the other, meaning it could be undervalued in comparison.

WaxProlix 10y ago

Lyft differentiates itself by throwing slightly more scraps to the drivers and not being Uber. It's shit, but cabbies aren't exactly working with a full benefits package and stock options either. I agree that Lyft is only marginally better than Uber, but it's hard to know where to go when basically every service industry seems to exist to exploit workers for profit. Do you just walk everywhere? Go live in the woods? It's a shit deal but we live in this system - worrying about 'ethical' consumption choices rather than trying to untangle root causes can feel like missing the point. Not that there's much chance of meaningful change there, either. Idunno.

techsupporter 10y ago
> it's hard to know where to go when basically every service industry seems to exist to exploit workers for profit No argument there. I completely agree (with the caveat that some small niches or niche companies seem to be "playing fair" but they're, by far, the exception than he rule). > Do you just walk everywhere? Go live in the woods? I intentionally didn't mention it, but since you asked: I don't use either service because of my objections to them. Where I live, public transit and bicycle infrastructure is pretty good--at least compared to most of North America--so if I can't get there by train, bus, bike, rented or friend's car (when going as a group), or my own two feet, I just don't go. I 197% recognize that this is a choice that many people don't get to make, but I don't think it invalidates the question of "why is Lyft seen as so much better than Uber?"
- WaxProlix 10y ago
  Sure - I take a bus to work and back, light rail around town, bike when weather permits, walk and eat/drink/shop local. I still take a Lyft when I go out and get drunk or whatever - not a real alternative out there.

envy2 10y ago

It's not—and anyone who says that it is is deluding themselves. I think we've reached the point where ridesharing apps are 100% a commodity: there's no real product differentiation, so I'll choose based on price and how long it'll take the car to arrive. Lyft drivers seem 'happier,' but that hasn't translated into anything significantly different for me in terms of ride quality. This won't be a popular opinion, but I think most drivers—on both services—are too entitled and have unrealistic expectations. Having a driver's license and a car is not rare in the US: it's a job that requires less specialized training/skill than being a fry cook at McDonald's, and should be compensated accordingly. The drivers who are happy are the ones who recognize this and do it to make some extra cash in their spare time after a 'real' job; the ones who are upset are trying to make their living driving. While I sympathize with the latter breed, they're in a dying occupation that's about to be automated out of existence within the next ~5 years.

hackernewsacct 10y ago
There are some flaws in your assumptions. You assume everyone that drives has the same license and that driving requires little skill. Some speciality driving requires skills. These drivers have to have Class A CDL licenses and have to pass training. I highly doubt automated vechiles will obselete every driving job that requires a CDL license in the next 5 years. Eventually? Quite possibly. But in 5 years? Most likely no. I'm not claiming every Uber / Lyft driver has a CDL license (most probably don't). But to claim driving requires no special skill is false. There are certain situations that require very specialized driving skills.
- envy2 10y ago
  I'd be shocked if any significant number of UberX and Lyft drivers had a CDL. Even in NYC, where a TLC license and commercial insurance is required, drivers still don't need a CDL. Some driving definitely requires specialized skills, but driving a Prius around SF or $random_american_city isn't it. Autonomous vehicles have gotten quite good, and I can easily see them filling the taxi/Uber use case by 2022.
  - 10y ago

FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago

I don't know what Lyft's corporate culture is like, but I'd rather not support a company whose attitude towards women is like Sterling Cooper Draper Price or where corporate advancement is a Game of Thrones, lest other firms see this as a model to emulate and these behaviors proliferate. I don't want to work in a corporate culture that resembles a preppy/bro boys club that thinks darwinism is a theory you can apply socially Also, Lyft gives me the option of tipping the driver with my card, which I generally do if the driver provides something more than just transportation from point A to B. Some drivers have told me and a first date a series of jokes, thus being a great icebreaker. Others have helped me carry my drunk friend to the door. I don't like to carry cash and I find Uber's policy to be a commodification of an essentially human experience and almost dehumanizing. A lot of times, I don't tip and I don't feel a whit of guilt about it.

verandaguy 10y ago

I think it boils down to PR and ethics at this point. From a consumer's point of view, both services offer a convenience layer over taxis: you have an online account that hooks into your credit card, which means you can just summon a car using your magic pocket computer, step inside, talk to the (generally friendlier-and-more-sociable-than-a-cab-driver) driver, and get out at your destination without having to guide the driver around the city, or having to take your wallet out of your pocket. That they're priced similarly (and frequently lower) than regular cabs means both of these apps are in demand, period. The convenience layer makes them competitive against cabs even at equal fares. If Lyft and Uber are essentially identical (which is arguable), then putting their company culture and PR under scrutiny is fair game and the natural direction consumers will go in.

smileysteve 10y ago

The key points are - CEO never blackmailed journalists - No major revelations of sexual harassment - ~~No major revelations of political support~~ Related to core business - Surge Limit has prevented complaints about emergency pricing vs Uber. - Lyft takes a lower commission capped at 20%/25% - Lyft has in app digital tipping (drivers keep 100% of tips). Uber's tip policy encourages cash, which is an often cited complaint of taxis. - Major investment / partnership with GM (mentioned in an Uber thread that Car Makers will need a cheap / reasonably priced app)

jbw976 10y ago
the in app tipping that lyft provides is what seals the deal for me. the drivers are performing a service for me and having an integrated way to enhance their compensation is really nice. a lot of the drivers have a hard time making a good living especially considering vehicle related costs are all on their shoulders. I'm happy to have a 1-click way to give them a bit extra. I've never understood why uber doesn't let you tip from within the app. it further solidifies the perception that uber doesn't care about its drivers. they can't wait to replace all their human drivers with a self driving fleet. can the same be said about lyft? maybe. but at least the humans are being compensated better by lyft right now.
- mdorazio 10y ago
  Counterpoint: one of the reasons I prefer Uber is that it doesn't allow or encourage in-app tipping. Tipping sucks, is economically dysfunctional, and socially awkward. If the drivers aren't making enough from base fares then the fares need to go up - it's not my job to be a charity.
  - kemayo 10y ago
    I completely agree, and was halfway through writing a similar comment when I saw your post. I actively make choices for things like transit and food which reduce how much I have to think about tipping. I don't like having to judge someone's service, and decide how much it's appropriate to tip them based on some unwritten societal rule. The signal that hiding tips away sends is "the service provider is being compensated already", and if you want to make an extra effort to pay them more you can, but it's not required of you. I'm absolutely in favor of Uber/Lift charging whatever is necessary to pay their drivers properly. Similarly, I love no-tip restaurants which pay their servers and kitchen staff living wages.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

tn13 10y ago

Lyft has chosen a pink mustache as their symbol. Being number 2 they have sympathy of the leftist hippies as they dont like anyone succeeding.

prostoalex 10y ago

> from an outsider's perspective I don't understan I don't either, but it's related to the outsider status. Questions I'd be asking would revolve around unit economics - average gross and net revenues off a ride, average rides per driver per month, average rides per user per month, average driver retention and churn, average user retention and churn, all of the above in historic context broken down per market. Presumably sophisicated investors at this stage are asking for such numbers and base their valuations on cashflow. It's not a pure software business with winner-take-all mentality, Lyft is a Lowe's to Uber's Home Depot.

prostoalex 10y ago

dawnerd 10y ago

I feel Uber does a (slightly) better job vetting their drivers. I've had a few very questionable rides with Lyft. Most drivers are great but I've had more bad drivers on lyft.

Fomite 10y ago
I've had more poor, "I'm in a taxi cab in all but name" drives on Uber.
- fernandotakai 10y ago
  feels like it's city based. i definitely had bad rides on uber in nyc but only had great ones in sf. in my own town, uber is light-years ahead of taxi drivers. to the point where my parents are using uber (and they are really averse to technology)
  - Fomite 10y ago
    Yeah - I didn't mention it, but the variable that seems to drive the majority of the variability for me is "Where am I?"
- erroneousfunk 10y ago
  I used to have those a lot, but I think Uber's eliminated a lot of the "off duty taxi drivers" in the last couple years. I used to get picked up by literal taxi cabs when I called for an Uber pretty frequently. Now, "marked, taxi, or salvage vehicles" are not allowed.

pbreit 10y ago

You have a few faulty assumptions: the contractor classification is reasonable, many disagree it is or should be illegal, business model is money-printing machine. They are somewhat interchangeable but have quite different brandings.

JumpCrisscross 10y ago

> Why is either business the cat's meow? I have, for years, commented on Uber's savvy relative to Airbnb [1]. This was partly due to Uber's retention of Obama's campaign manager, David Plouffe [2]. Unfortunately, he left for the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative in January [3]. Uber's problems are, 80%, a PR scandal. #DeleteUber started when Uber seemed to interfere with a taxi strike at New York City's JFK airport [4]. Uber cancelled its surcharge at 7:36PM; the taxi union scheduled the strike, at 4:55PM, for between 6 and 7PM [5]. Biggest winner? Peter Thiel--numpties jumped to Lyft. Almost everyone else rallied against his competitor. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6521376#6521700 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6521376#6521700 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Plouffe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Plouffe [3] http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/10/ubers-david-plouffe-to-join-chan-zuckerberg.html http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/10/ubers-david-plouffe-to-join-c... [4] http://www.businessinsider.com/delete-uber-hashtag-jfk-airport-taxi-strikes-2017-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/delete-uber-hashtag-jfk-airpo... [5] https://www.axios.com/uber-didnt-deserve-deleteuber-2225893201.html https://www.axios.com/uber-didnt-deserve-deleteuber-22258932...

justinzollars 10y ago

I use Lyft because I am able to tip the driver. Also if you ask the drivers which platform they prefer typically they say Lyft treats them better. That is my reason.

hueving 10y ago

Many people have no problem with the contractor model or disrupting the ridiculous cab system. However, systemic sexual harassment and a generally abusive CEO is not something most people want to support.

jimmywanger 10y ago
> However, systemic sexual harassment That has yet to be proven with any sort of evidence other than an uncorroborated blog post or two.

cwp 10y ago

I don't feel Lyft is some paragon of virtue. AFAICT they're a regular Silicon Valley tech company with all of the usual tensions associated with that. The service they provide is a huge improvement on what came before, but there are privacy concerns related to the data they collect and use for business purposes. They'll probably push the envelope a bit on what they can do with that information, and then back down whenever there's significant pushback. Uber, on the other hand, is a cesspool. It's run by sociopaths who think business success confers moral authority, and are quite annoyed with all the hullaballoo about "right" and "wrong" that their actions periodically provoke. I have no problem with their business model, but I will not use Uber. I don't trust them with my credit card, and I don't want them tracking my movements.

digitalzombie 10y ago

Uh.... Uber vetting is weak compare to Lyft. They're both may not be super stringent but I've seen Uber vetting process and Lyft. Lyft was felt much better compare to Uber.

imh 10y ago

On iphone, uber's app now requires you to give it permission to see your location always, regardless of whether the app is open. With lyft, the app only needs my location while it is open. That's a huge one in my book. The day uber updated and said it had to track me 24/7 was the day I deleted it.

Apocryphon 10y ago

Tonight I've learned that Uber, on iOS, tracks the user's location even when the app is inactive, for at least ten minutes after a ride is over. Lyft only tracks location while a ride is in session. Would like someone to confirm this.