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I'll just leave this: Choose Firefox Now, Or Later You Won't Get A Choice (2014) http://robert.ocallahan.org/2014/08/choose-firefox-now-or-later-you-wont.html

I'll just leave this: Choose Firefox Now, Or Later You Won't Get A Choice (2014) http://robert.ocallahan.org/2014/08/choose-firefox-now-or-later-you-wont.html http://robert.ocallahan.org/2014/08/choose-firefox-now-or-la...

Nightshaxx 10y ago
I love the irony of the fact that this post is written on blogger, a Google platform.
- hueving 10y ago
  Blogger is very far from creating a monopoly on blogging platforms.
- eveningcoffee 10y ago
  Blogger did not start as Google platform but was acquired by it. Or what was the irony?
fixermark 10y ago
That's basically true for all software. Unpopular options that no longer receive support recede, regardless of their price-point. Or should I also have an Opera instance hot and ready to run, just in case?
- hackuser 10y ago
  Firefox isn't just any software; the survival of the open web, and therefore open software in general (because the web is a major platform), depends in part on their marketshare.
  - chappi42 10y ago
    Well then Mozilla better would spend their resources more wisely and refrain from political influenced decisions, e.g. Thunderbird, FirefoxOS, Brendan Eich. Mozilla/Firefox lost much respect from me (not that they will or should care;)
    - hackuser 10y ago
      Other than Eich, I don't see any politics in those decisions.
      - chappi42 10y ago
        Those were the 'spend more wisely' part...
  - Karunamon 10y ago
    The survival of the open web, whatever that means, depends on a bit player (~15% marketshare, neck and neck with IE) with an abysmal security record, questionable leadership, and who's in the immediate process of disassembling their only remaining competitive advantage? If this is the case, "the open web" did not go extinct, it committed suicide.
ajross 10y ago
That seems uncharitable. The issue at hand is that Mozilla is dropping support for plug-ins, and hangouts' implementation of media streaming uses a plug-in. Google didn't do anything to break Firefox here except fail to develop an alternative in time. The actual software change being pushed to break the functionality is on Mozilla's end (which I don't disagree with, FWIW). Lots of other stuff is breaking because of this Firefox change too, and it's not a conspiracy.
- chimeracoder 10y ago
  > hangouts' implementation of media streaming uses a plug-in. Sort of. That's true in non-Chrome browsers. In Chrome, Hangouts uses WebRTC. Though the Google Talk plugin that Hangouts uses in Firefox is (as I understand) used as a way of patching Firefox's WebRTC to make it behave more like Chrome's WebRTC.
- Etzos 10y ago
  Considering Mozilla has been planning to remove support for NPAPI plugins for well over a year and had made public announcements of such and considering Chrome has already removed such support it actually is far less uncharitable. How much leeway should be given when they had ample notification of such breakage and had workarounds available for their own browser? I'll agree that the parent's link is a bit uncharitable, but given the circumstances it seems a bit more poignant and dismissing it entirely seems a bit much.
- hackuser 10y ago
  > The issue at hand is that Mozilla is dropping support for plug-ins, and hangouts' implementation of media streaming uses a plug-in Every time two systems need to integrate, the vendors always can and often do point the finger at each other. In this case, Google had since October 2015 to fix this, didn't do it, and now attributes the problem to Firefox. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13764449 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13764449
  - bpodgursky 10y ago
    > Google had since October 2015 to fix this Sorry, but I don't really believe in an internet where the default assumption is "you have to rewrite your application within two years, or if it's broken it is your fault" Hangouts relied on browser support which worked. It's crufty, I get it, but it was supported. If this was Microsoft pulling support for old Windows 98 API calls, everyone on HN would be appalled that their old-but-reliable software no longer worked on a new OS. But then for some reason, they give Mozilla a complete pass on the exact same behavior. Finished webapps should not require a constant refactoring and fixing to keep them usable. We're only hearing about this because it is Hangouts and Google. Sure, Google _could_ throw a bunch of money at it and fix it, but there are thousands of other little sites which will just silently die forever, and I don't believe Google should _have_ to update this.

Nightshaxx 10y ago

I love the irony of the fact that this post is written on blogger, a Google platform.

hueving 10y ago
Blogger is very far from creating a monopoly on blogging platforms.
eveningcoffee 10y ago
Blogger did not start as Google platform but was acquired by it. Or what was the irony?

fixermark 10y ago

That's basically true for all software. Unpopular options that no longer receive support recede, regardless of their price-point. Or should I also have an Opera instance hot and ready to run, just in case?

hackuser 10y ago
Firefox isn't just any software; the survival of the open web, and therefore open software in general (because the web is a major platform), depends in part on their marketshare.
- chappi42 10y ago
  Well then Mozilla better would spend their resources more wisely and refrain from political influenced decisions, e.g. Thunderbird, FirefoxOS, Brendan Eich. Mozilla/Firefox lost much respect from me (not that they will or should care;)
  - hackuser 10y ago
    Other than Eich, I don't see any politics in those decisions.
    - chappi42 10y ago
      Those were the 'spend more wisely' part...
- Karunamon 10y ago
  The survival of the open web, whatever that means, depends on a bit player (~15% marketshare, neck and neck with IE) with an abysmal security record, questionable leadership, and who's in the immediate process of disassembling their only remaining competitive advantage? If this is the case, "the open web" did not go extinct, it committed suicide.

ajross 10y ago

That seems uncharitable. The issue at hand is that Mozilla is dropping support for plug-ins, and hangouts' implementation of media streaming uses a plug-in. Google didn't do anything to break Firefox here except fail to develop an alternative in time. The actual software change being pushed to break the functionality is on Mozilla's end (which I don't disagree with, FWIW). Lots of other stuff is breaking because of this Firefox change too, and it's not a conspiracy.

chimeracoder 10y ago
> hangouts' implementation of media streaming uses a plug-in. Sort of. That's true in non-Chrome browsers. In Chrome, Hangouts uses WebRTC. Though the Google Talk plugin that Hangouts uses in Firefox is (as I understand) used as a way of patching Firefox's WebRTC to make it behave more like Chrome's WebRTC.
Etzos 10y ago
Considering Mozilla has been planning to remove support for NPAPI plugins for well over a year and had made public announcements of such and considering Chrome has already removed such support it actually is far less uncharitable. How much leeway should be given when they had ample notification of such breakage and had workarounds available for their own browser? I'll agree that the parent's link is a bit uncharitable, but given the circumstances it seems a bit more poignant and dismissing it entirely seems a bit much.
hackuser 10y ago
> The issue at hand is that Mozilla is dropping support for plug-ins, and hangouts' implementation of media streaming uses a plug-in Every time two systems need to integrate, the vendors always can and often do point the finger at each other. In this case, Google had since October 2015 to fix this, didn't do it, and now attributes the problem to Firefox. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13764449 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13764449
- bpodgursky 10y ago
  > Google had since October 2015 to fix this Sorry, but I don't really believe in an internet where the default assumption is "you have to rewrite your application within two years, or if it's broken it is your fault" Hangouts relied on browser support which worked. It's crufty, I get it, but it was supported. If this was Microsoft pulling support for old Windows 98 API calls, everyone on HN would be appalled that their old-but-reliable software no longer worked on a new OS. But then for some reason, they give Mozilla a complete pass on the exact same behavior. Finished webapps should not require a constant refactoring and fixing to keep them usable. We're only hearing about this because it is Hangouts and Google. Sure, Google _could_ throw a bunch of money at it and fix it, but there are thousands of other little sites which will just silently die forever, and I don't believe Google should _have_ to update this.