7 ms·

This is a good review. Nice pictures, and some real-world usage scenarios, especially concerning battery life. I really wanted to like the Switch, but the addi

by coldpie 10y ago

This is a good review. Nice pictures, and some real-world usage scenarios, especially concerning battery life. I really wanted to like the Switch, but the addition of and focus on motion controls during their January press conference really killed it for me. Alternate input methods for games have failed, but Nintendo keeps pursuing this. My worry about the fact that the console supports motion controls is that games will use them. Motion controls killed the Mario Galaxy series for me, I couldn't get past the first hour or so without having so many frustrating input problems. I have a Wii U and Nintendo's games insist on using the microphone for stupid gameplay mechanics, like blowing on it to move platforms. Nintendo makes really good games, but they're tied to crap hardware and forced to use really awful input gimmicks. This feels crummy to say, but I kind of hope the Switch fails so that they're forced to go third party, drop their crap hardware division, and put out their excellent software on game consoles I actually want to own and use.

TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago
> Alternate input methods for games have failed Is that really so? Motion controls work very well for certain niches. Some types of games are better without them, but so long as developers allow the choice of conventional inputs in cases where they don't work well, it shouldn't be a problem.
- ronnier 10y ago
  Joy stick for fighters. Mouse and keyboard for FPS and similar games. Traditional controller for platformers/side scrollers Touch for a few types of games on mobile, not many though. Almost never do I want to use motion.
  - treehau5 10y ago
    Wii bowling
    - ferongr 10y ago
      Random waggling do not true motion control make.
    - kbenson 10y ago
      And tennis. And golf. And baseball. And many others where people either don't have or don't let their preconceptions steer their preferences. Motion controls never caught on because game studios aren't interested in making games locked to one console, and motion controls are far less standardized.
      - ashark 10y ago
        > And tennis. And golf. And baseball. Until you realize your standing-up-arm-waving strategy is being destroyed by the person sitting on the couch making little wrist flicks, who may as well be pushing buttons for all the motion they're making. And that person isn't experiencing severe RSI, the likes of which doesn't happen playing those sports for real, 5 minutes into the match.
        treehau5 10y ago
        I mean, I am not going to complain if I am sitting there taking my time diligently trying to aim my controller and then my 7 year old brother comes running around the corner with his machine gun just spamming AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA and gets an ace. It's all part of the fun. If you aren't having fun playing a video game, stop playing.
        ashark 10y ago
        The mode of play that is more fun hurts and loses to a mode that is basically button pressing (mostly because when you're making the "real" motions it can't figure out what you're trying to do half the time, and does something else instead, while wrist-flicks are picked up reliably). The failure is (at least their implementation of) motion controls. Was great for rail shooters, though. Don't know why they didn't make an effort to get a port of every rail shooter ever made on the Wii. Only console ever where they'd be (the only?) first-class citizens.
  - virusduck 10y ago
    Motion controls actually worked really well for the Madden series on Wii. Only, EA put some bargain-basement coders on the Wii versions, and that, coupled with the below-average graphics, are what made it not as successful a game series.
  - thenomad 10y ago
    ...Motion control for VR. It works incredibly well in VR - whereas I know a fair few people find gamepad controls immersion-breaking, compared to interacting with the virtual world with your hands and your body.
- kbenson 10y ago
  I would posit that some limited motion controls could benefit most, if not almost all games. The big problem is the controllers are poorly adapted for motion in most cases. The Wii is able to do more with motion because the controller setup makes that possible, with the separated joystick portion and motion portion. It causes problems in that it's not as button-rich as contemporary controllers, so cross-platform titles often require changes, but when used appropriately, the motion controls can enhance play quite nicely. Unfortunately, there's little incentive for established third party developers to put much effort into motion controls, as they want their games on as many platforms as possible and large differences in control schemes make that hard. That said, the PSVR stuff is really the next level of motion controls. Unfortunately, it looks like they ignored where I think Nintendo had good foresight, and didn't include a way to use analog joysticks with the controllers, so it appears you either use the VR controllers or a regular Playstation controller, and there's no hybrid solution equivalent to the Wiimote nunchuck joystick (I hope I'm wrong, or they have a way to fix this with an attachment). Motion controls are still going strong, we're just still evolving past the equivalents of the Atari joystick and original NES controllers.
intrasight 10y ago
I assume is a form of internal corporate welfare. One has to assume that the company would be bigger and healthier without the hardware division.
jclardy 10y ago
Hmm, I have to disagree here. I'm actually really excited about the Joy-Con's and the Switch's portability. Mainly because you take the tablet with you and you have the ability to do same-screen co-op just like that. For a game like Towerfall or Mariocart (Or a launch title, like Snipperclips) that is amazing. And the ability to play Zelda on an airplane sounds awesome. I do think they flubbed a ton of stuff on the software side (and even hardware...digital triggers on the joy-cons...) mainly by making 1-2 switch a $50 title and not a pack-in, so I see that flopping hard. At this point the only reason to buy is Zelda, so in that regard it seems like a soft launch for the dedicated fans, then the real launch will be this holiday season. I do agree on disliking motion controls for a console like this, but motion controls do have their place in VR, so maybe Nintendo has some future plans in that space...
- coldpie 10y ago
  Yeah, the portability is really cool! And the ad-hoc networking for multiplayer seems neat. The joycon controllers seem pretty neat, simple little controllers, which means you can focus on gameplay. I was really excited for it. But... then the January demo happened. It's all dumb mini-games with shit motion controls. It's an ice cube vibration demo(?!?). It's some poorly-defined camera vision detection thing. They seem to be doubling down on awful input methods, instead of showing us good games that I want to play on hardware I want to own.
  - jwcooper 10y ago
    > It's all dumb mini-games with shit motion controls. Do you mean 1-2 Switch? That's one game out of quite a few games that are coming out this year. 1-2 switch is definitely heavy on the Nintendo gimmick though. I was somewhat surprised at how few 'gimmick' games were announced. Most of the games are standard controller-type games. Mario, Mario Kart, Zelda, Splatoon 2, and all the indie games that were announced yesterday. Edit: You're right..forgot about Arms being motion controlled too.
    - coldpie 10y ago
      What I remember from the press conference was 1-2 Switch (motion controls barf), Arms (motion controls barf), Zelda (getting it on Wii U), Splatoon (probably actually good), something about ice cubes (what), Skyrim (isn't this game like 8 years old?), some distant-future titles, and a handful of nebulous 3rd party statements of support. Maybe I'll pick one up in a year or two if they don't lean to heavily on the motion controls gimmick after all. But I'm not holding my breath.
ajeet_dhaliwal 10y ago
Experimentation is great but yes it's been (and continues to be) overdone. The best games in my opinion still use the standard controller, I just got done with FFXV and I never longed for anything but that DualShock4.
givinguflac 10y ago
I disagree, I thought the use of microphone in gameplay was an interesting addition, and it's not like it's something that you had to do more than a few times total in a game. Also, there's no possible way that motion controls will be the main input for most games- it's portable.
k__ 10y ago
If I look at all the controllers since SNES, alternate input methods were always their thing. And since they have a big hardware divison, they need to come up with innovative ideas to sell hardware.
- coldpie 10y ago
  Nah, N64 and Gamecube were pretty standard. Buttons and joysticks.
  - k__ 10y ago
    Yes, for todays standards. N64 was a weird trident with a thumb-stick, PSX added these sticks later with the DualShock controller. GC had this freaky button-layout.
    - ashark 10y ago
      GC was the first with analog-plus-click triggers too, I think.
    - Nadya 10y ago
      The GC controller is the best gaming controller, IMHO. Followed by the SNES controller. My hands have never cramped playing my Gamecube or SNES. They cramp constantly trying to play FF15 on my PS4 and playing Xbox isn't much better.
      - coldpie 10y ago
        The 360 controller gets my vote, but the Gamecube comes in at a close second :)
      - __david__ 10y ago
        I love the PS4 controller. I would get hand fatigue with the PS1/2/3 controller but the PS4 is just the right shape for my hands and I never notice anything even after extended play times. I like it a lot.
  - 10y ago
ashark 10y ago
> I have a Wii U and Nintendo's games insist on using the microphone for stupid gameplay mechanics, like blowing on it to move platforms. Haha, really? They've done that crap since the Famicom. Didn't make it to the states, but the Japanese controllers had a microphone. Had to blow into it for a couple games (Japanese version of Zelda, for one). They must be really in love with that input method.
timlod 10y ago
The Switch is supposed to have excellent hardware. Also, the majority of people at preview events (greatly) praised the motion controls of the upcoming game ARMS. HD Rumble also is reported to be amazing. I for one am excited to play with what may be the first really great motion controls.
vlunkr 10y ago
The showed what, 2 games that used motion controls? I wouldn't expect most games to even bother with them. I guess we'll see though.
flukus 10y ago
> Alternate input methods for games have failed, but Nintendo keeps pursuing this. The switch support standard input methods and then some.

by coldpie 10y ago

TazeTSchnitzel 10y ago

> Alternate input methods for games have failed Is that really so? Motion controls work very well for certain niches. Some types of games are better without them, but so long as developers allow the choice of conventional inputs in cases where they don't work well, it shouldn't be a problem.

ronnier 10y ago
Joy stick for fighters. Mouse and keyboard for FPS and similar games. Traditional controller for platformers/side scrollers Touch for a few types of games on mobile, not many though. Almost never do I want to use motion.
- treehau5 10y ago
  Wii bowling
  - ferongr 10y ago
    Random waggling do not true motion control make.
  - kbenson 10y ago
    And tennis. And golf. And baseball. And many others where people either don't have or don't let their preconceptions steer their preferences. Motion controls never caught on because game studios aren't interested in making games locked to one console, and motion controls are far less standardized.
    - ashark 10y ago
      > And tennis. And golf. And baseball. Until you realize your standing-up-arm-waving strategy is being destroyed by the person sitting on the couch making little wrist flicks, who may as well be pushing buttons for all the motion they're making. And that person isn't experiencing severe RSI, the likes of which doesn't happen playing those sports for real, 5 minutes into the match.
      - treehau5 10y ago
        I mean, I am not going to complain if I am sitting there taking my time diligently trying to aim my controller and then my 7 year old brother comes running around the corner with his machine gun just spamming AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA and gets an ace. It's all part of the fun. If you aren't having fun playing a video game, stop playing.
        ashark 10y ago
        The mode of play that is more fun hurts and loses to a mode that is basically button pressing (mostly because when you're making the "real" motions it can't figure out what you're trying to do half the time, and does something else instead, while wrist-flicks are picked up reliably). The failure is (at least their implementation of) motion controls. Was great for rail shooters, though. Don't know why they didn't make an effort to get a port of every rail shooter ever made on the Wii. Only console ever where they'd be (the only?) first-class citizens.
- virusduck 10y ago
  Motion controls actually worked really well for the Madden series on Wii. Only, EA put some bargain-basement coders on the Wii versions, and that, coupled with the below-average graphics, are what made it not as successful a game series.
- thenomad 10y ago
  ...Motion control for VR. It works incredibly well in VR - whereas I know a fair few people find gamepad controls immersion-breaking, compared to interacting with the virtual world with your hands and your body.
kbenson 10y ago
I would posit that some limited motion controls could benefit most, if not almost all games. The big problem is the controllers are poorly adapted for motion in most cases. The Wii is able to do more with motion because the controller setup makes that possible, with the separated joystick portion and motion portion. It causes problems in that it's not as button-rich as contemporary controllers, so cross-platform titles often require changes, but when used appropriately, the motion controls can enhance play quite nicely. Unfortunately, there's little incentive for established third party developers to put much effort into motion controls, as they want their games on as many platforms as possible and large differences in control schemes make that hard. That said, the PSVR stuff is really the next level of motion controls. Unfortunately, it looks like they ignored where I think Nintendo had good foresight, and didn't include a way to use analog joysticks with the controllers, so it appears you either use the VR controllers or a regular Playstation controller, and there's no hybrid solution equivalent to the Wiimote nunchuck joystick (I hope I'm wrong, or they have a way to fix this with an attachment). Motion controls are still going strong, we're just still evolving past the equivalents of the Atari joystick and original NES controllers.

intrasight 10y ago

I assume is a form of internal corporate welfare. One has to assume that the company would be bigger and healthier without the hardware division.

jclardy 10y ago

Hmm, I have to disagree here. I'm actually really excited about the Joy-Con's and the Switch's portability. Mainly because you take the tablet with you and you have the ability to do same-screen co-op just like that. For a game like Towerfall or Mariocart (Or a launch title, like Snipperclips) that is amazing. And the ability to play Zelda on an airplane sounds awesome. I do think they flubbed a ton of stuff on the software side (and even hardware...digital triggers on the joy-cons...) mainly by making 1-2 switch a $50 title and not a pack-in, so I see that flopping hard. At this point the only reason to buy is Zelda, so in that regard it seems like a soft launch for the dedicated fans, then the real launch will be this holiday season. I do agree on disliking motion controls for a console like this, but motion controls do have their place in VR, so maybe Nintendo has some future plans in that space...

coldpie 10y ago
Yeah, the portability is really cool! And the ad-hoc networking for multiplayer seems neat. The joycon controllers seem pretty neat, simple little controllers, which means you can focus on gameplay. I was really excited for it. But... then the January demo happened. It's all dumb mini-games with shit motion controls. It's an ice cube vibration demo(?!?). It's some poorly-defined camera vision detection thing. They seem to be doubling down on awful input methods, instead of showing us good games that I want to play on hardware I want to own.
- jwcooper 10y ago
  > It's all dumb mini-games with shit motion controls. Do you mean 1-2 Switch? That's one game out of quite a few games that are coming out this year. 1-2 switch is definitely heavy on the Nintendo gimmick though. I was somewhat surprised at how few 'gimmick' games were announced. Most of the games are standard controller-type games. Mario, Mario Kart, Zelda, Splatoon 2, and all the indie games that were announced yesterday. Edit: You're right..forgot about Arms being motion controlled too.
  - coldpie 10y ago
    What I remember from the press conference was 1-2 Switch (motion controls barf), Arms (motion controls barf), Zelda (getting it on Wii U), Splatoon (probably actually good), something about ice cubes (what), Skyrim (isn't this game like 8 years old?), some distant-future titles, and a handful of nebulous 3rd party statements of support. Maybe I'll pick one up in a year or two if they don't lean to heavily on the motion controls gimmick after all. But I'm not holding my breath.

ajeet_dhaliwal 10y ago

Experimentation is great but yes it's been (and continues to be) overdone. The best games in my opinion still use the standard controller, I just got done with FFXV and I never longed for anything but that DualShock4.

givinguflac 10y ago

I disagree, I thought the use of microphone in gameplay was an interesting addition, and it's not like it's something that you had to do more than a few times total in a game. Also, there's no possible way that motion controls will be the main input for most games- it's portable.

k__ 10y ago

If I look at all the controllers since SNES, alternate input methods were always their thing. And since they have a big hardware divison, they need to come up with innovative ideas to sell hardware.

coldpie 10y ago
Nah, N64 and Gamecube were pretty standard. Buttons and joysticks.
- k__ 10y ago
  Yes, for todays standards. N64 was a weird trident with a thumb-stick, PSX added these sticks later with the DualShock controller. GC had this freaky button-layout.
  - ashark 10y ago
    GC was the first with analog-plus-click triggers too, I think.
  - Nadya 10y ago
    The GC controller is the best gaming controller, IMHO. Followed by the SNES controller. My hands have never cramped playing my Gamecube or SNES. They cramp constantly trying to play FF15 on my PS4 and playing Xbox isn't much better.
    - coldpie 10y ago
      The 360 controller gets my vote, but the Gamecube comes in at a close second :)
    - __david__ 10y ago
      I love the PS4 controller. I would get hand fatigue with the PS1/2/3 controller but the PS4 is just the right shape for my hands and I never notice anything even after extended play times. I like it a lot.
- 10y ago

ashark 10y ago

> I have a Wii U and Nintendo's games insist on using the microphone for stupid gameplay mechanics, like blowing on it to move platforms. Haha, really? They've done that crap since the Famicom. Didn't make it to the states, but the Japanese controllers had a microphone. Had to blow into it for a couple games (Japanese version of Zelda, for one). They must be really in love with that input method.

timlod 10y ago

The Switch is supposed to have excellent hardware. Also, the majority of people at preview events (greatly) praised the motion controls of the upcoming game ARMS. HD Rumble also is reported to be amazing. I for one am excited to play with what may be the first really great motion controls.

vlunkr 10y ago

The showed what, 2 games that used motion controls? I wouldn't expect most games to even bother with them. I guess we'll see though.

flukus 10y ago

> Alternate input methods for games have failed, but Nintendo keeps pursuing this. The switch support standard input methods and then some.