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I believe the driver was itching for a confrontation (he stopped Kalanick as he was getting out of the car to start the conversation). It was only after being

by erdojo 10y ago

I believe the driver was itching for a confrontation (he stopped Kalanick as he was getting out of the car to start the conversation). It was only after being berated for a minute or two and interrupted that Kalanick's composure started to crack. Before then, I don't think anything Kalanick could have said would have mollified this driver. He had an axe and he was going to grind it. Kalanick could have handled it better, but he didn't totally melt down either. And I think the guy is pretty terrible in general.

lambdasquirrel 10y ago
You have to admit there's a bit of karma in it. If you want happier drivers, head over to Lyft where we tip better. :P
- erdojo 10y ago
  I used to use Lyft and Uber interchangebly depending on where I was, but since the Susan Fowler allegations I've defaulted to Lyft. And I love the in-app tipping :), so much less awkward and more convenient. However, I've had more borderline experiences with Lyft than Uber, mostly related to basic cleanliness of the car. Drivers have always been great though.
frgtpsswrdlame 10y ago
Where else should he grind it? Kalanick is the CEO. He made a decision which affects this mans livelihood. Kalanick certainly gets paid enough to face up to people like this. And if he wants to stop facing up to it, maybe he can do something about their pay.
- erdojo 10y ago
  Right person, wrong time, wrong approach. Kalanick was off the clock, clearly on his way home and in a social setting. The driver could have really capitalized on the moment. He could have opened a productive and respectful conversation by saying he was a very early driver and had some feedback - good and bad - asking to sit down at a more appropriate time. That had far more likelihood of achieving any progress. But maybe he didn't want progress. Maybe he just wanted the satisfaction of venting to the CEO.
- dragontamer 10y ago
  > Kalanick is the CEO. And the driver is not an employee. Yeah, I know this has been discussed a lot of times, but the way Uber is set up, there's absolutely no reason for Kalanick to give an Eff about the driver's situation. And indeed: the loyalty cuts both ways. Uber drivers can immediately drop Uber and simply work for Lyft. They have complete and utter independence from the Uber company. Its just the nature of how Uber has been set up. I understand the driver's frustration, but what more does the driver expect?
  - matt4077 10y ago
    > the way Uber is set up, there's absolutely no reason for Kalanick to give an Eff about the driver's situation. Except, you know, "being a human" > loyalty cuts both ways. Uber drivers can immediately drop Uber and simply work for Lyft. They have complete and utter independence from the Uber company. That's actually not that different from being an employee, where you can usually quit on short notice and start working somewhere else as well – at least on the lower end of the market. But it's wrong to consider these relationships as symmetrical in terms of power. Uber (or any employer) has vastly more power over an individual driver than the other way around. That's because loss of the gig can mean financial ruin for the driver, but the company wouldn't even notice it. That's why unions are needed to create a balance of power.
    - computerex 10y ago
      I don't know whether we need unions or not - but until we do, Uber can hardly be faulted for playing the free market. The CEO has a board to answer to and they care about maximizing profits, like any other for profit organization.
      - frgtpsswrdlame 10y ago
        >Uber can hardly be faulted for playing the free market. Why? Seems like we should be holding them responsible in any way we can (even if that's just talking bad on a message board) for their bad actions. I don't know why we need to give them a pass on actions we don't deem moral just because it's legal.
- 1_2__3 10y ago
  > He made a decision which affects this mans livelihood. You don't get to challenge everyone in your life who makes decisions that directly or indirectly affect you.
  - placeybordeaux 10y ago
    It's not like he had a right to challenge him, he had an opportunity, which he took.
  - frgtpsswrdlame 10y ago
    Hypothetically, don't you think a world where you could do that would be better? Besides this isn't exactly indirect. There is a direct line from Kalanick's decisions to this mans paycheck.
  - orthecreedence 10y ago
    > You don't get to challenge everyone in your life who makes decisions that directly or indirectly affect you. I believe the first amendment disagrees. If you have a grievance with someone, it is absolutely within your right to tell them. In fact, I'd argue that a healthy, functional society relies entirely on people being completely honest with each other.
  - random314 10y ago
    > You don't get to challenge everyone in your life who makes decisions that directly or indirectly affect you. Where did you get that idea?
  - Aeolun 10y ago
    Well, yes, you do. At least, there's generally no reason why you couldn't challenge them. No guarantee they'll listen.
- calvinbhai 10y ago
  I'd have agreed with your reasoning, if Uber was a charity. But its not. If Uber didn't cut prices, Lyft would have steamrolled Uber in 2013. So, Travis is not lying when he says "they had to drop prices". When someone tells you how to do your job better, and that someone is not even qualified to do that job, you'll also get angry.

by erdojo 10y ago

lambdasquirrel 10y ago

You have to admit there's a bit of karma in it. If you want happier drivers, head over to Lyft where we tip better. :P

erdojo 10y ago
I used to use Lyft and Uber interchangebly depending on where I was, but since the Susan Fowler allegations I've defaulted to Lyft. And I love the in-app tipping :), so much less awkward and more convenient. However, I've had more borderline experiences with Lyft than Uber, mostly related to basic cleanliness of the car. Drivers have always been great though.

frgtpsswrdlame 10y ago

Where else should he grind it? Kalanick is the CEO. He made a decision which affects this mans livelihood. Kalanick certainly gets paid enough to face up to people like this. And if he wants to stop facing up to it, maybe he can do something about their pay.

erdojo 10y ago
Right person, wrong time, wrong approach. Kalanick was off the clock, clearly on his way home and in a social setting. The driver could have really capitalized on the moment. He could have opened a productive and respectful conversation by saying he was a very early driver and had some feedback - good and bad - asking to sit down at a more appropriate time. That had far more likelihood of achieving any progress. But maybe he didn't want progress. Maybe he just wanted the satisfaction of venting to the CEO.
dragontamer 10y ago
> Kalanick is the CEO. And the driver is not an employee. Yeah, I know this has been discussed a lot of times, but the way Uber is set up, there's absolutely no reason for Kalanick to give an Eff about the driver's situation. And indeed: the loyalty cuts both ways. Uber drivers can immediately drop Uber and simply work for Lyft. They have complete and utter independence from the Uber company. Its just the nature of how Uber has been set up. I understand the driver's frustration, but what more does the driver expect?
- matt4077 10y ago
  > the way Uber is set up, there's absolutely no reason for Kalanick to give an Eff about the driver's situation. Except, you know, "being a human" > loyalty cuts both ways. Uber drivers can immediately drop Uber and simply work for Lyft. They have complete and utter independence from the Uber company. That's actually not that different from being an employee, where you can usually quit on short notice and start working somewhere else as well – at least on the lower end of the market. But it's wrong to consider these relationships as symmetrical in terms of power. Uber (or any employer) has vastly more power over an individual driver than the other way around. That's because loss of the gig can mean financial ruin for the driver, but the company wouldn't even notice it. That's why unions are needed to create a balance of power.
  - computerex 10y ago
    I don't know whether we need unions or not - but until we do, Uber can hardly be faulted for playing the free market. The CEO has a board to answer to and they care about maximizing profits, like any other for profit organization.
    - frgtpsswrdlame 10y ago
      >Uber can hardly be faulted for playing the free market. Why? Seems like we should be holding them responsible in any way we can (even if that's just talking bad on a message board) for their bad actions. I don't know why we need to give them a pass on actions we don't deem moral just because it's legal.
1_2__3 10y ago
> He made a decision which affects this mans livelihood. You don't get to challenge everyone in your life who makes decisions that directly or indirectly affect you.
- placeybordeaux 10y ago
  It's not like he had a right to challenge him, he had an opportunity, which he took.
- frgtpsswrdlame 10y ago
  Hypothetically, don't you think a world where you could do that would be better? Besides this isn't exactly indirect. There is a direct line from Kalanick's decisions to this mans paycheck.
- orthecreedence 10y ago
  > You don't get to challenge everyone in your life who makes decisions that directly or indirectly affect you. I believe the first amendment disagrees. If you have a grievance with someone, it is absolutely within your right to tell them. In fact, I'd argue that a healthy, functional society relies entirely on people being completely honest with each other.
- random314 10y ago
  > You don't get to challenge everyone in your life who makes decisions that directly or indirectly affect you. Where did you get that idea?
- Aeolun 10y ago
  Well, yes, you do. At least, there's generally no reason why you couldn't challenge them. No guarantee they'll listen.
calvinbhai 10y ago
I'd have agreed with your reasoning, if Uber was a charity. But its not. If Uber didn't cut prices, Lyft would have steamrolled Uber in 2013. So, Travis is not lying when he says "they had to drop prices". When someone tells you how to do your job better, and that someone is not even qualified to do that job, you'll also get angry.