13 ms·

The Privacy Revolution that never came

144 points by remx 10y ago

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
scandox 10y ago
> Kids today are growing up with iPads in their laps that teach them how to code. No. They're growing up with iPads in their laps that teach them how not to code. Computing used to be creative perforce. Now the larger trend is to consumption - perforce. There is a heartening smaller trend to creativity with Pi, Arduino etc...but it is tiny compared to the mainstream use of computers.
- owebmaster 10y ago
  I would love to see some stats about the percentage of internet users that studied how to code in 1990's and today. I bet it will be at least one order of magnitude in favour of the former.
  - endless1234 10y ago
    And? In the 1990s _nobody_ but the people most interested in computers used the Internet, now it's a commodity. Of course there's going to be a huge difference in that statistic.
    - owebmaster 10y ago
      That is the point. The ratio of people developing and people consuming is, imo, a healthy indicator of the internet. And we are, in the last decade and amid all the efforts to encourage people to code, having less people interested in software development than before. My main guess is that a lot of potential developers became content creators in silloed social networks.
      - glhaynes 10y ago
        Why do you say there are less people interested in software development than before? (And do you mean less absolutely or less as a fraction of the whole?)
        owebmaster 10y ago
        Because before, to be a content creator on the internet you had to be a developer. Now, you don't need, you can use software created by others. This is good, is abstraction building. But it doesn't come for free. I don't have numbers to back my impression, though :) (I mean fraction of the whole, but I would love to have the data to see if we are not having more people leaving software development due to increasing complexity or retired tech than joining. How many have left software development with the downfall of Delphi, Visual Basic, Clipper?).
- danijelb 10y ago
  Yes. I've noticed that trend too. A lot of today's teenagers spend most of the time on their phones to consume content and to communicate. Most of them use PC only for homework. I feel like the amount of time spent in front of the screen is the same, but not for the same purpose, and not the same screen. I was a teenager during the transition, the iPhone was released just on my generation's transition between primary and secondary education. Still, we all prefer laptops. Naturally, since we spent bunch of time on PCs, we tried and explored many different things. I started learning HTML when I was 11 or 12, I don't remember precisely, but I discovered it accidentally. I found out about View source and how to save a web page (HTML), then I started playing with the code. This was enough to get me interested and I started learning HTML and later, programming. Today I am 23 and I work as a mobile developer. I heard a lot of similar stories, not just in programming, but for graphic design and other fields that use a computer as a tool. The smartphone is simply not a creative tool, and it's not an open platform. You can't "peek" inside of a mobile app like I was able to peek into HTML. If I didn't, I would never discover it and it would never lead me to other platforms and programming languages. You can't see and play with raw files. You can't just open a photo in an editor, which leads you later into some creative fields like graphic design. Sure, you can "get creative" in Snapchat with your photos, but Snapchat is not a professional tool. When we wanted to edit our photos, we had to first get Photoshop, and learn the basics of working with it. Since it is a professional tool, it is an invaluable skill. I feel like this doesn't happen anymore. Applications like Snapchat are enough to fill their need for creativity and those kids are less likely to discover useful tools.
  - Quarrelsome 10y ago
    I got into tinkering with my PC because I had to edit config.sys and autoexec.bat to change virtual memory settings in order to play the computer games I wanted. I share the concern that a phone is a consumer gadget much like the console was as a gaming platform compared to the Amiga/ST/PC stack. I'd imagine that kids that grew up with Amiga/ST/PC were much more likely to become programmers than those that grew up with consoles (Megadrive/SNES).
    - intended 10y ago
- rimantas 10y ago
  And how many reading books 60 years ago were learning to write them?
  - 1_2__3 10y ago
    What a profoundly ridiculous comparison.
    - lowkeyokay 10y ago
      Why do you think it is rediculous?
  - xkxx 10y ago
    Books are just one form of text. There are plenty of others. Everybody who knows how to read books also knows how to write at least something. It's not true for software. There are plenty of people who can use some applications, but can't write any application, even as simple as a helloworld.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - owebmaster 10y ago
    Genius comparison. I don't think the evolution of tech caused the current situation. Proprietary code does :) Only free software could change it. I hear a lot of people feeling entitled to bash RMS, but it happens because they don't get the big picture.
  - lowkeyokay 10y ago
    I actually had the same thaught. Learning to read or even basic writing doesn't compare to the skill and effort it takes to write something interesting, let alone a novel. You just know enough to consume what others have written. Basically the same as learning to use an iPad.
- jhoechtl 10y ago
  The original sense of creativity has gone lost towards 'tying things together'. You can easily tie things together on an iPad but its comparatively hard to actually create something new. Umfortunately many people praised the shareconomy without seing the downside that a shareconomy seldom creates new.
- sigi45 10y ago
  Came here to write this. I heard this 10 years ago and it didn't came true. It is not coming true in the next 10 years. It is not a skill at all to comprehend how to select the wlan, open apps, download apps and enter some email address for some free internet.
- maxxxxx 10y ago
  that's pretty normal. Once a technology goes into the mainstream and matures, people don't have to learn how it works anymore but juts use it. 50 years ago every car driver needed to have a pretty good understanding of their car. Now not too many people have even a basic understanding of cars but they still use one.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
hammerandtongs 10y ago
If you'd like something concrete to DO about this as a software developer - Deploy your server into sandstorm.io https://sandstorm.io/news/2014-07-21-open-source-web-apps-require-federated-hosting https://sandstorm.io/news/2014-07-21-open-source-web-apps-re...
- simplehuman 10y ago
  Yes, or cloudron.io. https://cloudron.io/get.html#selfhost https://cloudron.io/get.html#selfhost
saycheese 10y ago
Author is wrong, privacy is driven by culture, not technology.
- strombourg 10y ago
  I think it's both of these things plus money. If the culture has an interest in privacy, the technology exists to make privacy feasible and someone can make money from it, you have a path of least resistance (or at least a level playing field) towards more privacy.
- ckozlowski 10y ago
  I don't think I could agree that the "author is wrong" without some cavets, but I do agree that privacy is in part driven by culture. As an anecdote, I recall when I lived abroad just how many of my German friends used false information in their Facebook profiles. They were rarely under their real name, and the pictures were often obscure and few in number. It wasn't universal in every instance, but it was common enough that the expat Americans such as myself would sometimes talk about "going anonymous" like the Germans did. When I asked a friend or two about this, the answer was always the same. Privacy. There was simply a much greater concern over groups that had their data. (I'm inclined to believe there's a historical basis for this, but it's just supposition.) So I think people will be more concerned about privacy when it becomes important enough for them to do so. And I believe that's not likely to happen until the evidences of the abuses against themselves becomes too large to ignore. But the abuses of privacy today are largely unseen and unheard. And so the culture of being social and sharing is more dominant than the culture of privacy. I don't hold developers and engineers directly responsible for ensuring people's privacy (though they could certainly do more to improve it. Their business model often relies on people giving up their privacy, true. But as Facebook stated long ago, "the information users provide is voluntary." Users do not seem to mind volunteering.
  - lnanek2 10y ago
    China is considerably different as well. My completely non-techie first wife could still quite easily use VPNs and knew what they did, for example. If you are in a culture where the government interferes with network access, constantly watches what you do, censors you, and sometimes even confiscates property, then the work arounds become much more common place knowledge.
facepalm 10y ago
There seem to be many privacy solutions, but little adoption. Sorry, but I have to blame the consumers, not developers. I am actually amazed at how much manpower is being poured into doomed privacy projects. Like how many encrypted messenger apps are there, that never stand a chance against WhatsApp and Facebook?
- Joeboy 10y ago
  I'm not sure you can really blame the consumers. All products claim to be "secure", and consumers have no way of knowing what is and isn't secure. Plus of course security isn't a binary and all security solutions have problems of one kind or another, which makes things extra-confusing.
  - facepalm 10y ago
    But how can you change the situation, if consumers don't care enough to educate themselves? A government decree wouldn't help in this case, as governments can't be trusted with protecting privacy.
    - Joeboy 10y ago
      Since you ask, I think a neglected part of the solution might lie in getting businesses to communicate securely. Unlike individuals, businesses actually care quite a lot if their data leaks. I think maybe people have wasted a lot of time trying to peddle crypto to hippies and politicos, when lawyers and insurance companies might have been a more receptive audience. The only way PGP was ever going to get any adoption was if people feared getting fired for sending unencrypted private info. And of course once there's a critical mass of people who know what a private key is due to their work, it's a smaller step to get individuals to encrypt things voluntarily.
      - 794CD01 10y ago
        >businesses actually care quite a lot if their data leaks. How are you coming to that conclusion? Companies may say they take security seriously and they want to avoid becoming the next Sony or Home Depot, but how many actually allocate resources accordingly? It's much more efficient to just issue a press release and offer to pay for credit monitoring services that virtually nobody will actually use.
educar 10y ago
Many people are doing something about this. Change is slow but surely happening. We don't have the right products to trigger a privacy revolution but they are being built. Deploying a server and installing most of the apps required for day to day use had never been simpler. See cloudron.io and sandstorm.io (though sandstorm seems to have failed to find a business model).
ThePhysicist 10y ago
The problem is not that software developers are sleeping, it's that most users do not care much and are not willing to pay for privacy despite saying it's important for them. This might change when people actually realize what companies can and will do with their personal data and how easy it is to categorize, predict and manipulate people with only a little of their behavior data. Until then, people will just enjoy their free search engines, social networks, phone operating systems and will be content paying with their private data. Some things are changing for the better though: Many people finally become a bit more informed about privacy, also thanks to the effort of journalists uncovering some of the biggest data scandals. In addition, at least for EU citizens the situation should massively improve on May 25, 2018, as then the new EU data protection directive will come into force, which will significantly increase the rights of people to control how, when and by whom their data can be used. And with a maximum fine corresponding to 4 % of the worldwide revenue, companies will finally have some good incentives to be more careful with the data of their users.
- unknown2374 10y ago
  To add to that, I have found that a lot of my friends in the software developer community, who used to have the "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" mentality, are finally paying more attention to privacy related issues in light of the new administration in the States. Reminds me of what Snowden said a few years back, "Even if you trust the government today, what happens when it changes?”. I have noticed a similar phenomenon happening among my non-technical family members as well. So yes, I am totally with you that things are changing, I am excited to see how the dynamic changes in Silicon Valley for companies that used to rely on that mentality. However, I am still worried that this might just be an initial reaction to the regime change in the States and it might die down soon as people, at the very least the non-technical people, might become tired of how hard it is to use products that are privacy and "freedom" respecting and might fall back to the convenience of the products and services offered "free" but for the price of their privacy.
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    I can't help wonder if it is a generational memory thing. The people doing tech now didn't grow up or live through a massive war and police states. Because those that did had insulated them from that. It seems like we humans are incapable of learning from past events because we primarily learn by experiencing. End result is that we take the status quo for granted until it changes, boiling frog like.
jasonkostempski 10y ago
"Apathetic software developers who refuse to take the privacy fight seriously." This article is hosted by a third-party and has Google Analytics.
- snarf21 10y ago
  Exactly. The whole premise is a cop out. Software engineers will collectively all care about privacy and security when their employers do. The employers will when their users/customers demand it. For right now, they prefer free to private/secure. It will take an outside force to change that like legislation or if people get in "trouble" for sharing things that disagree with the powers that be. The super hard thing is to help people value their privacy/security. They already share everything on their social accounts showing they don't really care. They only care when an ex uses that information to stalk them or something. Or they make stupid myopic comments like "I have nothing to hide..." until you do because one of your FB friends has a muslim sounding name. Then they want privacy and security but still only from that person/group.
  - Nomentatus 10y ago
    Actually I prefer the original Google privacy policy, I would not have signed up to gmail if it had, then, the current non-privacy policy. It's going to take me years - at least - to back out of using Google products, but I am starting that process; and just hoping I end up actually having a choice. Privacy is one more "race to the bottom" where the government has to intervene, since acting one at a time consumers are helpless.
- kerkeslager 10y ago
  If a murderer says murder is wrong, does that mean murder is right? Just because someone is a hypocrite doesn't mean they're wrong.
  - devmunchies 10y ago
    nobody would disagree. The point was that there is no accountability in the article. It even says "they're sleeping" instead of "we're sleeping". Everybody else is too lazy but not me because I'm writing about it so I'm doing something (you're not).
bicknergseng 10y ago
> The difference between reading and managing servers is childhood. That analogy is crap. Is the difference between reading and launching people into space childhood, too? We don't blame authors for kids who can't read any more than you can solve technical illiteracy by bludgeoning software authors. Can we help? Yes, certainly (and check out https://www.cs-first.com/en/home https://www.cs-first.com/en/home if you haven't). But throwing shade isn't going to magically make an entire class of folks learn something they don't care about.
superkuh 10y ago
Says the guy who choses to use a centralized Medium web service to host his words.
- tbking 10y ago
  Exactly!
- newsat13 10y ago
  And uses Google Analytics
tbking 10y ago
Irony: Blogging about data ownership and hosting the blog on medium.
dsschnau 10y ago
This dude is 100% right. Every developer I've worked with ever gives zero fucks about privacy. This is one change that has to happen with us, because you're damn right users aren't going to care.
libertymcateer 10y ago
I am a practicing IP, software and information attorney. I wrote (as in, me personally, in Node) and just released http://gibber.it http://gibber.it , which is currently in beta, to allow users to send end-to-end encrypted messages through basically any place in a browser that you can enter text. It currently works quite well on gmail, nytimes.com comment boards and on reddit. It will soon be working on facebook (their content-security-policy is very strict - rightly so - and I am making the extension compatible with these requirements). * It currently functions as a chrome extension. * Sign up, invite connections just like any other social network. * Encryption is end to end, AES 128 with nonce'd salts. * Use a password you share with your connection (NOT your login password) to send connection invites - this is used to encrypt your keys during the invite process. (Make sure to accept the return invite! This is how your connection sends his or her keys back to you. Also note that you will likely need to reload any tab running the extension after accepting an invite in order to get the keys to load.) * Use the chrome extension to encrypt and decrypt messages as you browse. You can see it in action here: https://www.gibberit.com/#!how https://www.gibberit.com/#!how Mobile coming soon. HIPAA compliance coming soon. Terms of Service Here: https://www.gibberit.com/terms https://www.gibberit.com/terms Privacy Policy Here: https://www.gibberit.com/privacy https://www.gibberit.com/privacy Please note that the system is in BETA. Still many tweaks to work out. Use is at your own risk. Please feel free to ask any questions you may have. I welcome any and all feedback. Love the system? Hate the system? Please let me know. More about me here: http://www.lawyernamedliberty.com http://www.lawyernamedliberty.com Edit: Please note that the gibberit homepage - AND NO OTHER PAGE - uses google analytics. This is clearly detailed in my privacy policy. Aside from that, I do not use any tracking software.
cuillevel3 10y ago
Tell that to my manager?
forgottenpass 10y ago
Why software developers are holding us back I know it's more fun to play blame the nerds, but this author needs to sit down and have a bit of a think about why they're blaming people for building the things they were paid to build, rather than the people who decided that the things should be built. But there are no easy answers there, all you get is a sense that there are an overwhelming number of force vectors that all make the status quo happen. If the moral imperative is on engineers to band together, and refuse work for the purpose of breaking us out of the feedback loops we're in, you're going to need a lot more principle and actionable advice in your argument than some shitty hand-waving to throw developers under the bus so you can huck your notetaking app.
- philovivero 10y ago
  Best and most-relevant comment, as always, just sitting down here at the bottom and all lonely. Blaming engineers for this problem is shooting the messenger. Engineers, so far as I can tell, are the only group who do care about privacy, and spend their hard-earned free hours making products to address it. They're soundly ignored by consumers, who quite frankly don't give a shit. But I guess "blame the nerds" is all the rage these days. Just like it was when I was a nerdy kid in the 1980's. And just like it was when my dad was a nerdy kid in the 1950's. It's never enough, nerds. Give more to society. Work harder for free.
ComodoHacker 10y ago
>In a hundred years, advanced tech savviness by all individuals will be as standard as reading. That's a bit too optimistic.
spunker540 10y ago
The doomsaying about privacy in this article is way overblown if you ask me. I agree that most of these big companies/governments are greedily collecting as much data as they can without even a clear plan of how it all will be used, and that the amount of data being collected is definitely way more than most users know. But will I someday be prosecuted for the news articles I read or the songs I listen to or my amazon purchases or my google searches? I guess maybe, but that is a HUGE maybe. If the number one motivator for internet privacy is so that if there is someday an oppressive totalitarian government I will be safe, then I'm not convinced. Besides - I doubt the new government will really be stymied by my use of a private server. The truth is most of the data collection benefits us all in at least some small way. Spotify provides better recommendations, google provides better search results. Even the ads we are served are more appropriate for us (for better or for worse). And when people do absolutely need privacy there are suitable options already available. But these are niche products for a reason: most people lead innocuous lives.
- Mc_Big_G 10y ago
  Given the current political situation in the US, I'm surprised you're doubtful there will one day be an oppressive totalitarian government that uses this information against you. Do you really doubt that there are currently politicians in power who would not hesitate to leverage this data to their benefit? If so, it seems we're living in different realities.
  - spunker540 10y ago
    Could you give a specific example of how typical data (ie internet browsing records) could be exploited by a politician? Will they arrest me? Tax me? Publicly shame me for reading the New York Times?
    - cowpig 10y ago
      sure: https://medium.com/startup-grind/how-the-trump-campaign-built-an-identity-database-and-used-facebook-ads-to-win-the-election-4ff7d24269ac https://medium.com/startup-grind/how-the-trump-campaign-buil...
sorenstoutner 10y ago
I agree with the general premise of the article that software developers need to focus more on privacy, something that neither large corporations nor closed source programs are likely to do. A few years ago I became so frustrated with the privacy behavior of the major browsers, which treat users like a commodity to be sold to advertisers and corporations with large internet presences, that I developed Privacy Browser. Currently it is only available for Android, although future development will bring it to other platforms. https://www.stoutner.com/privacy-browser/ https://www.stoutner.com/privacy-browser/ Regarding the article being published on Medium.com, I think it is ironic that anyone with strong privacy views would use a platform that requires accepting third-party cookies to create an account or post a comment.
mahyarm 10y ago
This kind of argument is like shaming people for not using solar panels or some other green tech because they are too 'lazy' to make the sacrifice. Or shaming people for not using linux as their desktop operating system. Or for using MP3s. The reality is you need to make the economics and usage of it better than the current de facto reality. There are reasons why the current status quo is the status quo, and you have to be more compelling than the status quo to beat it. It's why signal forces everyone to use phone numbers as identifiers & use google play services. It is why PGP has failed. It is why your next consumer privacy product will probably still use those cloud services, but client side encrypt. Now that solar panels are meeting the price of gas, we will very soon see solar overtaking a lot power plant production in the world. Because it will be the cheapest.
alxmdev 10y ago
If anyone else is curious about the cool title artwork, the artist is Josan Gonzalez and you can find more here: https://www.neondystopia.com/cyberpunk-art-photography/the-future-is-now-an-interview-with-josan-gonzalez/ https://www.neondystopia.com/cyberpunk-art-photography/the-f...

144 points by remx 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

> Kids today are growing up with iPads in their laps that teach them how to code. No. They're growing up with iPads in their laps that teach them how not to code. Computing used to be creative perforce. Now the larger trend is to consumption - perforce. There is a heartening smaller trend to creativity with Pi, Arduino etc...but it is tiny compared to the mainstream use of computers.

owebmaster 10y ago
I would love to see some stats about the percentage of internet users that studied how to code in 1990's and today. I bet it will be at least one order of magnitude in favour of the former.
- endless1234 10y ago
  And? In the 1990s _nobody_ but the people most interested in computers used the Internet, now it's a commodity. Of course there's going to be a huge difference in that statistic.
  - owebmaster 10y ago
    That is the point. The ratio of people developing and people consuming is, imo, a healthy indicator of the internet. And we are, in the last decade and amid all the efforts to encourage people to code, having less people interested in software development than before. My main guess is that a lot of potential developers became content creators in silloed social networks.
    - glhaynes 10y ago
      Why do you say there are less people interested in software development than before? (And do you mean less absolutely or less as a fraction of the whole?)
      - owebmaster 10y ago
        Because before, to be a content creator on the internet you had to be a developer. Now, you don't need, you can use software created by others. This is good, is abstraction building. But it doesn't come for free. I don't have numbers to back my impression, though :) (I mean fraction of the whole, but I would love to have the data to see if we are not having more people leaving software development due to increasing complexity or retired tech than joining. How many have left software development with the downfall of Delphi, Visual Basic, Clipper?).
danijelb 10y ago
Yes. I've noticed that trend too. A lot of today's teenagers spend most of the time on their phones to consume content and to communicate. Most of them use PC only for homework. I feel like the amount of time spent in front of the screen is the same, but not for the same purpose, and not the same screen. I was a teenager during the transition, the iPhone was released just on my generation's transition between primary and secondary education. Still, we all prefer laptops. Naturally, since we spent bunch of time on PCs, we tried and explored many different things. I started learning HTML when I was 11 or 12, I don't remember precisely, but I discovered it accidentally. I found out about View source and how to save a web page (HTML), then I started playing with the code. This was enough to get me interested and I started learning HTML and later, programming. Today I am 23 and I work as a mobile developer. I heard a lot of similar stories, not just in programming, but for graphic design and other fields that use a computer as a tool. The smartphone is simply not a creative tool, and it's not an open platform. You can't "peek" inside of a mobile app like I was able to peek into HTML. If I didn't, I would never discover it and it would never lead me to other platforms and programming languages. You can't see and play with raw files. You can't just open a photo in an editor, which leads you later into some creative fields like graphic design. Sure, you can "get creative" in Snapchat with your photos, but Snapchat is not a professional tool. When we wanted to edit our photos, we had to first get Photoshop, and learn the basics of working with it. Since it is a professional tool, it is an invaluable skill. I feel like this doesn't happen anymore. Applications like Snapchat are enough to fill their need for creativity and those kids are less likely to discover useful tools.
- Quarrelsome 10y ago
  I got into tinkering with my PC because I had to edit config.sys and autoexec.bat to change virtual memory settings in order to play the computer games I wanted. I share the concern that a phone is a consumer gadget much like the console was as a gaming platform compared to the Amiga/ST/PC stack. I'd imagine that kids that grew up with Amiga/ST/PC were much more likely to become programmers than those that grew up with consoles (Megadrive/SNES).
  - intended 10y ago
rimantas 10y ago
And how many reading books 60 years ago were learning to write them?
- 1_2__3 10y ago
  What a profoundly ridiculous comparison.
  - lowkeyokay 10y ago
    Why do you think it is rediculous?
- xkxx 10y ago
  Books are just one form of text. There are plenty of others. Everybody who knows how to read books also knows how to write at least something. It's not true for software. There are plenty of people who can use some applications, but can't write any application, even as simple as a helloworld.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- owebmaster 10y ago
  Genius comparison. I don't think the evolution of tech caused the current situation. Proprietary code does :) Only free software could change it. I hear a lot of people feeling entitled to bash RMS, but it happens because they don't get the big picture.
- lowkeyokay 10y ago
  I actually had the same thaught. Learning to read or even basic writing doesn't compare to the skill and effort it takes to write something interesting, let alone a novel. You just know enough to consume what others have written. Basically the same as learning to use an iPad.
jhoechtl 10y ago
The original sense of creativity has gone lost towards 'tying things together'. You can easily tie things together on an iPad but its comparatively hard to actually create something new. Umfortunately many people praised the shareconomy without seing the downside that a shareconomy seldom creates new.
sigi45 10y ago
Came here to write this. I heard this 10 years ago and it didn't came true. It is not coming true in the next 10 years. It is not a skill at all to comprehend how to select the wlan, open apps, download apps and enter some email address for some free internet.
maxxxxx 10y ago
that's pretty normal. Once a technology goes into the mainstream and matures, people don't have to learn how it works anymore but juts use it. 50 years ago every car driver needed to have a pretty good understanding of their car. Now not too many people have even a basic understanding of cars but they still use one.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

hammerandtongs 10y ago

If you'd like something concrete to DO about this as a software developer - Deploy your server into sandstorm.io https://sandstorm.io/news/2014-07-21-open-source-web-apps-require-federated-hosting https://sandstorm.io/news/2014-07-21-open-source-web-apps-re...

simplehuman 10y ago
Yes, or cloudron.io. https://cloudron.io/get.html#selfhost https://cloudron.io/get.html#selfhost

saycheese 10y ago

Author is wrong, privacy is driven by culture, not technology.

strombourg 10y ago
I think it's both of these things plus money. If the culture has an interest in privacy, the technology exists to make privacy feasible and someone can make money from it, you have a path of least resistance (or at least a level playing field) towards more privacy.
ckozlowski 10y ago
I don't think I could agree that the "author is wrong" without some cavets, but I do agree that privacy is in part driven by culture. As an anecdote, I recall when I lived abroad just how many of my German friends used false information in their Facebook profiles. They were rarely under their real name, and the pictures were often obscure and few in number. It wasn't universal in every instance, but it was common enough that the expat Americans such as myself would sometimes talk about "going anonymous" like the Germans did. When I asked a friend or two about this, the answer was always the same. Privacy. There was simply a much greater concern over groups that had their data. (I'm inclined to believe there's a historical basis for this, but it's just supposition.) So I think people will be more concerned about privacy when it becomes important enough for them to do so. And I believe that's not likely to happen until the evidences of the abuses against themselves becomes too large to ignore. But the abuses of privacy today are largely unseen and unheard. And so the culture of being social and sharing is more dominant than the culture of privacy. I don't hold developers and engineers directly responsible for ensuring people's privacy (though they could certainly do more to improve it. Their business model often relies on people giving up their privacy, true. But as Facebook stated long ago, "the information users provide is voluntary." Users do not seem to mind volunteering.
- lnanek2 10y ago
  China is considerably different as well. My completely non-techie first wife could still quite easily use VPNs and knew what they did, for example. If you are in a culture where the government interferes with network access, constantly watches what you do, censors you, and sometimes even confiscates property, then the work arounds become much more common place knowledge.

facepalm 10y ago

There seem to be many privacy solutions, but little adoption. Sorry, but I have to blame the consumers, not developers. I am actually amazed at how much manpower is being poured into doomed privacy projects. Like how many encrypted messenger apps are there, that never stand a chance against WhatsApp and Facebook?

Joeboy 10y ago
I'm not sure you can really blame the consumers. All products claim to be "secure", and consumers have no way of knowing what is and isn't secure. Plus of course security isn't a binary and all security solutions have problems of one kind or another, which makes things extra-confusing.
- facepalm 10y ago
  But how can you change the situation, if consumers don't care enough to educate themselves? A government decree wouldn't help in this case, as governments can't be trusted with protecting privacy.
  - Joeboy 10y ago
    Since you ask, I think a neglected part of the solution might lie in getting businesses to communicate securely. Unlike individuals, businesses actually care quite a lot if their data leaks. I think maybe people have wasted a lot of time trying to peddle crypto to hippies and politicos, when lawyers and insurance companies might have been a more receptive audience. The only way PGP was ever going to get any adoption was if people feared getting fired for sending unencrypted private info. And of course once there's a critical mass of people who know what a private key is due to their work, it's a smaller step to get individuals to encrypt things voluntarily.
    - 794CD01 10y ago
      >businesses actually care quite a lot if their data leaks. How are you coming to that conclusion? Companies may say they take security seriously and they want to avoid becoming the next Sony or Home Depot, but how many actually allocate resources accordingly? It's much more efficient to just issue a press release and offer to pay for credit monitoring services that virtually nobody will actually use.

educar 10y ago

Many people are doing something about this. Change is slow but surely happening. We don't have the right products to trigger a privacy revolution but they are being built. Deploying a server and installing most of the apps required for day to day use had never been simpler. See cloudron.io and sandstorm.io (though sandstorm seems to have failed to find a business model).

ThePhysicist 10y ago

The problem is not that software developers are sleeping, it's that most users do not care much and are not willing to pay for privacy despite saying it's important for them. This might change when people actually realize what companies can and will do with their personal data and how easy it is to categorize, predict and manipulate people with only a little of their behavior data. Until then, people will just enjoy their free search engines, social networks, phone operating systems and will be content paying with their private data. Some things are changing for the better though: Many people finally become a bit more informed about privacy, also thanks to the effort of journalists uncovering some of the biggest data scandals. In addition, at least for EU citizens the situation should massively improve on May 25, 2018, as then the new EU data protection directive will come into force, which will significantly increase the rights of people to control how, when and by whom their data can be used. And with a maximum fine corresponding to 4 % of the worldwide revenue, companies will finally have some good incentives to be more careful with the data of their users.

unknown2374 10y ago
To add to that, I have found that a lot of my friends in the software developer community, who used to have the "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" mentality, are finally paying more attention to privacy related issues in light of the new administration in the States. Reminds me of what Snowden said a few years back, "Even if you trust the government today, what happens when it changes?”. I have noticed a similar phenomenon happening among my non-technical family members as well. So yes, I am totally with you that things are changing, I am excited to see how the dynamic changes in Silicon Valley for companies that used to rely on that mentality. However, I am still worried that this might just be an initial reaction to the regime change in the States and it might die down soon as people, at the very least the non-technical people, might become tired of how hard it is to use products that are privacy and "freedom" respecting and might fall back to the convenience of the products and services offered "free" but for the price of their privacy.
- digi_owl 10y ago
  I can't help wonder if it is a generational memory thing. The people doing tech now didn't grow up or live through a massive war and police states. Because those that did had insulated them from that. It seems like we humans are incapable of learning from past events because we primarily learn by experiencing. End result is that we take the status quo for granted until it changes, boiling frog like.

jasonkostempski 10y ago

"Apathetic software developers who refuse to take the privacy fight seriously." This article is hosted by a third-party and has Google Analytics.

snarf21 10y ago
Exactly. The whole premise is a cop out. Software engineers will collectively all care about privacy and security when their employers do. The employers will when their users/customers demand it. For right now, they prefer free to private/secure. It will take an outside force to change that like legislation or if people get in "trouble" for sharing things that disagree with the powers that be. The super hard thing is to help people value their privacy/security. They already share everything on their social accounts showing they don't really care. They only care when an ex uses that information to stalk them or something. Or they make stupid myopic comments like "I have nothing to hide..." until you do because one of your FB friends has a muslim sounding name. Then they want privacy and security but still only from that person/group.
- Nomentatus 10y ago
  Actually I prefer the original Google privacy policy, I would not have signed up to gmail if it had, then, the current non-privacy policy. It's going to take me years - at least - to back out of using Google products, but I am starting that process; and just hoping I end up actually having a choice. Privacy is one more "race to the bottom" where the government has to intervene, since acting one at a time consumers are helpless.
kerkeslager 10y ago
If a murderer says murder is wrong, does that mean murder is right? Just because someone is a hypocrite doesn't mean they're wrong.
- devmunchies 10y ago
  nobody would disagree. The point was that there is no accountability in the article. It even says "they're sleeping" instead of "we're sleeping". Everybody else is too lazy but not me because I'm writing about it so I'm doing something (you're not).

bicknergseng 10y ago

> The difference between reading and managing servers is childhood. That analogy is crap. Is the difference between reading and launching people into space childhood, too? We don't blame authors for kids who can't read any more than you can solve technical illiteracy by bludgeoning software authors. Can we help? Yes, certainly (and check out https://www.cs-first.com/en/home https://www.cs-first.com/en/home if you haven't). But throwing shade isn't going to magically make an entire class of folks learn something they don't care about.

superkuh 10y ago

Says the guy who choses to use a centralized Medium web service to host his words.

tbking 10y ago
Exactly!
newsat13 10y ago
And uses Google Analytics

tbking 10y ago

Irony: Blogging about data ownership and hosting the blog on medium.

dsschnau 10y ago

This dude is 100% right. Every developer I've worked with ever gives zero fucks about privacy. This is one change that has to happen with us, because you're damn right users aren't going to care.

libertymcateer 10y ago

I am a practicing IP, software and information attorney. I wrote (as in, me personally, in Node) and just released http://gibber.it http://gibber.it , which is currently in beta, to allow users to send end-to-end encrypted messages through basically any place in a browser that you can enter text. It currently works quite well on gmail, nytimes.com comment boards and on reddit. It will soon be working on facebook (their content-security-policy is very strict - rightly so - and I am making the extension compatible with these requirements). * It currently functions as a chrome extension. * Sign up, invite connections just like any other social network. * Encryption is end to end, AES 128 with nonce'd salts. * Use a password you share with your connection (NOT your login password) to send connection invites - this is used to encrypt your keys during the invite process. (Make sure to accept the return invite! This is how your connection sends his or her keys back to you. Also note that you will likely need to reload any tab running the extension after accepting an invite in order to get the keys to load.) * Use the chrome extension to encrypt and decrypt messages as you browse. You can see it in action here: https://www.gibberit.com/#!how https://www.gibberit.com/#!how Mobile coming soon. HIPAA compliance coming soon. Terms of Service Here: https://www.gibberit.com/terms https://www.gibberit.com/terms Privacy Policy Here: https://www.gibberit.com/privacy https://www.gibberit.com/privacy Please note that the system is in BETA. Still many tweaks to work out. Use is at your own risk. Please feel free to ask any questions you may have. I welcome any and all feedback. Love the system? Hate the system? Please let me know. More about me here: http://www.lawyernamedliberty.com http://www.lawyernamedliberty.com Edit: Please note that the gibberit homepage - AND NO OTHER PAGE - uses google analytics. This is clearly detailed in my privacy policy. Aside from that, I do not use any tracking software.

cuillevel3 10y ago

Tell that to my manager?

forgottenpass 10y ago

Why software developers are holding us back I know it's more fun to play blame the nerds, but this author needs to sit down and have a bit of a think about why they're blaming people for building the things they were paid to build, rather than the people who decided that the things should be built. But there are no easy answers there, all you get is a sense that there are an overwhelming number of force vectors that all make the status quo happen. If the moral imperative is on engineers to band together, and refuse work for the purpose of breaking us out of the feedback loops we're in, you're going to need a lot more principle and actionable advice in your argument than some shitty hand-waving to throw developers under the bus so you can huck your notetaking app.

philovivero 10y ago
Best and most-relevant comment, as always, just sitting down here at the bottom and all lonely. Blaming engineers for this problem is shooting the messenger. Engineers, so far as I can tell, are the only group who do care about privacy, and spend their hard-earned free hours making products to address it. They're soundly ignored by consumers, who quite frankly don't give a shit. But I guess "blame the nerds" is all the rage these days. Just like it was when I was a nerdy kid in the 1980's. And just like it was when my dad was a nerdy kid in the 1950's. It's never enough, nerds. Give more to society. Work harder for free.

ComodoHacker 10y ago

>In a hundred years, advanced tech savviness by all individuals will be as standard as reading. That's a bit too optimistic.

spunker540 10y ago

The doomsaying about privacy in this article is way overblown if you ask me. I agree that most of these big companies/governments are greedily collecting as much data as they can without even a clear plan of how it all will be used, and that the amount of data being collected is definitely way more than most users know. But will I someday be prosecuted for the news articles I read or the songs I listen to or my amazon purchases or my google searches? I guess maybe, but that is a HUGE maybe. If the number one motivator for internet privacy is so that if there is someday an oppressive totalitarian government I will be safe, then I'm not convinced. Besides - I doubt the new government will really be stymied by my use of a private server. The truth is most of the data collection benefits us all in at least some small way. Spotify provides better recommendations, google provides better search results. Even the ads we are served are more appropriate for us (for better or for worse). And when people do absolutely need privacy there are suitable options already available. But these are niche products for a reason: most people lead innocuous lives.

Mc_Big_G 10y ago
Given the current political situation in the US, I'm surprised you're doubtful there will one day be an oppressive totalitarian government that uses this information against you. Do you really doubt that there are currently politicians in power who would not hesitate to leverage this data to their benefit? If so, it seems we're living in different realities.
- spunker540 10y ago
  Could you give a specific example of how typical data (ie internet browsing records) could be exploited by a politician? Will they arrest me? Tax me? Publicly shame me for reading the New York Times?
  - cowpig 10y ago
    sure: https://medium.com/startup-grind/how-the-trump-campaign-built-an-identity-database-and-used-facebook-ads-to-win-the-election-4ff7d24269ac https://medium.com/startup-grind/how-the-trump-campaign-buil...

sorenstoutner 10y ago

I agree with the general premise of the article that software developers need to focus more on privacy, something that neither large corporations nor closed source programs are likely to do. A few years ago I became so frustrated with the privacy behavior of the major browsers, which treat users like a commodity to be sold to advertisers and corporations with large internet presences, that I developed Privacy Browser. Currently it is only available for Android, although future development will bring it to other platforms. https://www.stoutner.com/privacy-browser/ https://www.stoutner.com/privacy-browser/ Regarding the article being published on Medium.com, I think it is ironic that anyone with strong privacy views would use a platform that requires accepting third-party cookies to create an account or post a comment.

mahyarm 10y ago

This kind of argument is like shaming people for not using solar panels or some other green tech because they are too 'lazy' to make the sacrifice. Or shaming people for not using linux as their desktop operating system. Or for using MP3s. The reality is you need to make the economics and usage of it better than the current de facto reality. There are reasons why the current status quo is the status quo, and you have to be more compelling than the status quo to beat it. It's why signal forces everyone to use phone numbers as identifiers & use google play services. It is why PGP has failed. It is why your next consumer privacy product will probably still use those cloud services, but client side encrypt. Now that solar panels are meeting the price of gas, we will very soon see solar overtaking a lot power plant production in the world. Because it will be the cheapest.

alxmdev 10y ago

If anyone else is curious about the cool title artwork, the artist is Josan Gonzalez and you can find more here: https://www.neondystopia.com/cyberpunk-art-photography/the-future-is-now-an-interview-with-josan-gonzalez/ https://www.neondystopia.com/cyberpunk-art-photography/the-f...