4 ms·

Kind of a travesty. It's nothing these kids wouldn't hear on the school bus every day.

by douche 10y ago

pnathan 10y ago
Yeah, middle schoolers can have pretty gutter mouths. I wish adults in school boards would connect with reality here. (I have essentially the same rant about alcohol and high schoolers).
Cyph0n 10y ago
So that makes it OK to use expletives in an educational setting? Sounds pretty unprofessional to me. Now, they may have overdone it in this case, but in general, I think that expletives should remain outside of professional settings (classroom/workplace/lecture hall/etc.).
- ajmurmann 10y ago
  Why? What's the argument against them? Having grown up in a foreign country I genuinely don't understand the reasoning.
  - nsxwolf 10y ago
    "Good morning, bitches! Who's ready to do some fuckin' math! Open your books to page 155, let's DO THIS SHIT!" I would prefer my kids not have a teacher that talks that way. I think a majority of parents would not appreciate that.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - losvedir 10y ago
      Ha, the kids would love it, though. I wouldn't be surprised if such a teacher had better educational outcomes.
    - ajmurmann 10y ago
      You answered my question by restating the thing that I'm asking about. Why would you not prefer the far more entertaining version?
    - matwood 10y ago
      If talking this way got more kids interested in actually doing this shit (math), I say go for it.
    - ghostDancer 10y ago
      We are talking here about reading a book, not the teacher's words, i assume that children are not that stupid as to not see it. I guess you are in favor also to cover statues/paintings penises and tits in art books and to rewrite Tintin in Congo and many other books because they are not politically correct.
      - nsxwolf 10y ago
        Right, sure. I'm all for covering up Michelangelo's David. Thanks for being so charitable with my words.
        ghostDancer 10y ago
        I understand you, and people defending it, but i wanted to point that it's a dangerous decision , where do we stop doing it? Who can decide where's the limit between censurable and not?. So Tintin in Congo(they wanted to rewrite it some years ago) it's censurable because it's a comic but Huckleberry Finn not because it's a classic? . And sorry , didn't want to look like was attacking you.
    - DanBC 10y ago
      I agree with you. I don't know why I agree with you. I strongly don't want my child swearing until he's ready to do so. I recognise that this is irrational, and that it's just sounds. Especially because I swear a lot. (Although I feel like this I would support a teacher who chose to use the uncensored version of The Martian in school. )
  - Cyph0n 10y ago
    You hear someone at work say: "Fuck this bug, what a shitty compiler, let's go back to using clang". Or you hear them say: "I'm tired of this bug, what a terribly designed compiler, let's go back to using clang". The second one gets the same message across in my opinion, but without resorting to obscene language. Now imagine a professor saying that during a lecture; sounds even worse to be honest. You mentioned that you grew up in a foreign country. Is it normal to hear your professor or boss speaking like that in a professional setting?
    - matwood 10y ago
      But it actually does not get the same message across. The clean version convey calmness and, well clean. The cursing version conveys the site is down and I've been up 24 fucking hours working around the fucking compiler. Completely different meaning by using words that convey a higher degrees of frustration. Now, I can agree with you if you're talking about using curse words just as a standard course of business. They are words with meaning just like all other words. Use them to convey what you are actually trying to convey.
    - cableshaft 10y ago
      Considering I once worked at a company (in the US) where one programmer had for his Do Not Disturb sign a page that said "FUCK OFF" in giant letters, um... yeah? Granted this was in the video game industry. But actually even in my current corporate business application development job there's a healthy amount of swearing within the department, even from the boss. We don't use it when communicating with people outside the department though (well, usually).
    - ajmurmann 10y ago
      It depends on the person. I did have a amazing high school math teacher who became interim director of the school who quite frequently used swear words. However, he did it usually in a entertaining rather than raging way. He was very popular with the students and a very effective teacher. Others would never swear and yet others occasionally. Just like normal people outside of a school setting. No parents ever complained are were concerned about it. They were just happy their kids were learning shit.
  - castis 10y ago
    Because some parents are incapable of and/or unwilling to teaching their children right from wrong and will rely on the public education system to do it for them.
Mindless2112 10y ago
Kids need models of appropriate behavior. They don't need models of inappropriate behavior -- they've already got it.
- aarpmcgee 10y ago
  I think it is important for people to occasionally remember that the concept of what is "appropriate" is completely made up.
  - nsxwolf 10y ago
    Well lets all walk around class naked and defecate in the trash cans then.
- khedoros1 10y ago
  Stuck alone on Mars? I'd say that the "appropriate behavior" for that situation is pretty well undefined. It seems like a good opportunity for teachable moments: "Okay, Jenny, let's not use our Mars-language at the dinner table." If the parents and other authority figures in the child's life aren't already providing good models of social behavior, then the kid's got bigger problems to worry about than the rough language in the book, and if they do have good models, then I don't see the problem, as long as the context gets explained to them at some point.
- matwood 10y ago
  > Kids need models of appropriate behavior. How about their parents? Should we change every book out there so it can be a children's role model now?
- zem 10y ago
  sure, but what does that have to do with swearing?
lkbm 10y ago
A travesty? Is the story materially hurt by these changes? I see a lot of people saying we shouldn't worry about kids seeing swear words, which I fully agree with, but no one seems to be putting forth any good arguments that these edits are in any way detrimental. If the original text hadn't had him swearing, would you have walked away thinking "Gee, that was nice, but it seems odd that he never said 'fuck'. I'll remove half a star from my rating for that'? If not, why is this edit in any way a negative, let alone a travesty?

Kind of a travesty. It's nothing these kids wouldn't hear on the school bus every day.

by douche 10y ago

Kind of a travesty. It's nothing these kids wouldn't hear on the school bus every day.

Yeah, middle schoolers can have pretty gutter mouths. I wish adults in school boards would connect with reality here. (I have essentially the same rant about alcohol and high schoolers).

Cyph0n 10y ago

So that makes it OK to use expletives in an educational setting? Sounds pretty unprofessional to me. Now, they may have overdone it in this case, but in general, I think that expletives should remain outside of professional settings (classroom/workplace/lecture hall/etc.).

ajmurmann 10y ago
Why? What's the argument against them? Having grown up in a foreign country I genuinely don't understand the reasoning.
- nsxwolf 10y ago
  "Good morning, bitches! Who's ready to do some fuckin' math! Open your books to page 155, let's DO THIS SHIT!" I would prefer my kids not have a teacher that talks that way. I think a majority of parents would not appreciate that.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - losvedir 10y ago
    Ha, the kids would love it, though. I wouldn't be surprised if such a teacher had better educational outcomes.
  - ajmurmann 10y ago
    You answered my question by restating the thing that I'm asking about. Why would you not prefer the far more entertaining version?
  - matwood 10y ago
    If talking this way got more kids interested in actually doing this shit (math), I say go for it.
  - ghostDancer 10y ago
    We are talking here about reading a book, not the teacher's words, i assume that children are not that stupid as to not see it. I guess you are in favor also to cover statues/paintings penises and tits in art books and to rewrite Tintin in Congo and many other books because they are not politically correct.
    - nsxwolf 10y ago
      Right, sure. I'm all for covering up Michelangelo's David. Thanks for being so charitable with my words.
      - ghostDancer 10y ago
        I understand you, and people defending it, but i wanted to point that it's a dangerous decision , where do we stop doing it? Who can decide where's the limit between censurable and not?. So Tintin in Congo(they wanted to rewrite it some years ago) it's censurable because it's a comic but Huckleberry Finn not because it's a classic? . And sorry , didn't want to look like was attacking you.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    I agree with you. I don't know why I agree with you. I strongly don't want my child swearing until he's ready to do so. I recognise that this is irrational, and that it's just sounds. Especially because I swear a lot. (Although I feel like this I would support a teacher who chose to use the uncensored version of The Martian in school. )
- Cyph0n 10y ago
  You hear someone at work say: "Fuck this bug, what a shitty compiler, let's go back to using clang". Or you hear them say: "I'm tired of this bug, what a terribly designed compiler, let's go back to using clang". The second one gets the same message across in my opinion, but without resorting to obscene language. Now imagine a professor saying that during a lecture; sounds even worse to be honest. You mentioned that you grew up in a foreign country. Is it normal to hear your professor or boss speaking like that in a professional setting?
  - matwood 10y ago
    But it actually does not get the same message across. The clean version convey calmness and, well clean. The cursing version conveys the site is down and I've been up 24 fucking hours working around the fucking compiler. Completely different meaning by using words that convey a higher degrees of frustration. Now, I can agree with you if you're talking about using curse words just as a standard course of business. They are words with meaning just like all other words. Use them to convey what you are actually trying to convey.
  - cableshaft 10y ago
    Considering I once worked at a company (in the US) where one programmer had for his Do Not Disturb sign a page that said "FUCK OFF" in giant letters, um... yeah? Granted this was in the video game industry. But actually even in my current corporate business application development job there's a healthy amount of swearing within the department, even from the boss. We don't use it when communicating with people outside the department though (well, usually).
  - ajmurmann 10y ago
    It depends on the person. I did have a amazing high school math teacher who became interim director of the school who quite frequently used swear words. However, he did it usually in a entertaining rather than raging way. He was very popular with the students and a very effective teacher. Others would never swear and yet others occasionally. Just like normal people outside of a school setting. No parents ever complained are were concerned about it. They were just happy their kids were learning shit.
- castis 10y ago
  Because some parents are incapable of and/or unwilling to teaching their children right from wrong and will rely on the public education system to do it for them.

Mindless2112 10y ago

Kids need models of appropriate behavior. They don't need models of inappropriate behavior -- they've already got it.

aarpmcgee 10y ago
I think it is important for people to occasionally remember that the concept of what is "appropriate" is completely made up.
- nsxwolf 10y ago
  Well lets all walk around class naked and defecate in the trash cans then.
khedoros1 10y ago
Stuck alone on Mars? I'd say that the "appropriate behavior" for that situation is pretty well undefined. It seems like a good opportunity for teachable moments: "Okay, Jenny, let's not use our Mars-language at the dinner table." If the parents and other authority figures in the child's life aren't already providing good models of social behavior, then the kid's got bigger problems to worry about than the rough language in the book, and if they do have good models, then I don't see the problem, as long as the context gets explained to them at some point.
matwood 10y ago
> Kids need models of appropriate behavior. How about their parents? Should we change every book out there so it can be a children's role model now?
zem 10y ago
sure, but what does that have to do with swearing?

lkbm 10y ago

A travesty? Is the story materially hurt by these changes? I see a lot of people saying we shouldn't worry about kids seeing swear words, which I fully agree with, but no one seems to be putting forth any good arguments that these edits are in any way detrimental. If the original text hadn't had him swearing, would you have walked away thinking "Gee, that was nice, but it seems odd that he never said 'fuck'. I'll remove half a star from my rating for that'? If not, why is this edit in any way a negative, let alone a travesty?