8 ms·

Inside NASA’s Space Farming Labs

98 points by dsr12 10y ago

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Ninjalicious 10y ago
I see more metal than dirt in all of their experiments. No biohazard markers anywhere so probably not using waste. The best way to farm in space is to convert human waste into manure and compost, and you need to have other organisms to do that. I don't see red worms either. NASA won't be able to engineer plants in space, it will have to adopt a microbiome that exists on earth already that can be modularized into a spacecraft. Growing lettuce is a joke, you need to figure out how to make pigs and chickens into astronauts. I'm not joking.
- Cthulhu_ 10y ago
  Indeed; even if they can make lettuce grow, it's very low in nutritional value so they'd need to sacrifice a lot of space and energy into creating something edible. Potatoes would work better. Space pigs, too, but they'd require a lot of nutrients to keep alive and grow. iirc they need ten times as much food than what their meat is worth in nutritional value. The future is probably artificially produced food, like the porridge / sludge shown in the Matrix. Something out of a chemical process instead of a biological one.
  - molsongolden 10y ago
    Algae and fungi have been popular in some recent "near-future" sci-fi.
    - kiliantics 10y ago
      This makes much more sense, then you can make soylent with it.
  - infinite8s 10y ago
    Well, there is the recent innovation in vat-grown meat that supposedly has the same texture as 'real' meat.
  - Pfhreak 10y ago
    Potatoes are an interesting case, but they require rooting around through soil to harvest. (Having grown potatoes in my garden last year, it was a much messier endeavor than my greens.) I'm not sure we're ready for all that soil to be floating around in the ISS, literally mucking things up. Not saying it isn't possible, but why not use lettuces to solve all the 'simple' problems about growing things in space first. Also, don't discount the quality of life improvement of eating some fresh lettuce.
    - eutectic 10y ago
      Aeroponics or hydroponics would help eliminate the mess issue.
  - IndianAstronaut 10y ago
    >The future is probably artificially produced food, like the porridge / sludge shown in the Matrix. Something out of a chemical process instead of a biological one. I imagine we can synthesize relatively simple molecules such as glucose to supplement calories when needed by astronauts.
  - jelliclesfarm 10y ago
    I agree. Artificial food can be 3-D printed for various textures and flavours can be added to make it seem familiar for those need the nostalgia.
- Pfhreak 10y ago
  Keep in mind that floating soil is problematic. There may be soil in the pouches there. Step one, discover whether pouches can support plant life in space, with ideal conditions set up beforehand on earth. Step two, discover whether you can manufacture said conditions in space using in situ materials. Lettuce is a great way to explore step one. Consider that we're not confident that root systems will behave correctly when water doesn't flow through the strata like it normally does with gravity. There are still fundamental research elements to be done.
dekhn 10y ago
Wait, why do we send people to space in the first place?
- M_Grey 10y ago
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27721383 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27721383 Good question! The answer is that we know so little about surviving there for any appreciable length of time (compared to a human lifespan), that most don't understand the challenges. Meanwhile they're relative experts with the problems faced by a terrestrial existence. TL;DR The hydrogen is always redder in the other man's H-Alpha band.
  - dekhn 10y ago
    The paper you cited explained why we shouldn't send people to space, not why we should.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- Anchor 10y ago
  The classic answer would be http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/08/why-explore-space.html http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/08/why-explore-space.html
  - dekhn 10y ago
    I'm fine with exploring space. My question is (given the context of how expensive it was to produce lettuce in space), why send humans?
    - Anchor 10y ago
      A less of a classic but a really good discussion http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/08/how-and-why-spacex-will-colonize-mars.html http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/08/how-and-why-spacex-will-coloni... (the whole Musk series is worth the read too).
junipergreen 10y ago
The blogs of the scientists who lived on fake Mars for a year in Hawaii make it clear how important food is for astronaut's mental health as well as physical nutritional needs: https://walking-on-red-dust.com/2016/06/18/domemade-food/ https://walking-on-red-dust.com/2016/06/18/domemade-food/
- sampo 10y ago
  A couple of years ago I listened to a talk by a plant scientist from Florida. They had some experiments, seedlings growing in the International Space Station. Every day one of the astronauts took photos of the seedlings, to document growth. He said that it was more or less everyone's favorite task in the space station. "Today I get to look at the plants", the astronauts would say.
CodeSheikh 10y ago
These are some very EXPENSIVE organic veggies.
imaginenore 10y ago
Why do they even need soil? Aeroponics is way more efficient.
mtchtrnr 10y ago
I was part of the USU team mentioned in the article. There are a lot of variables to take into account when growing plants in micgrogravity: Particulates, like soil, are actually considered a hazardous material in space because it can float into and clog up the ventilation. Capillary action is a dominant force in microgravity and water will coat everything. Roots are respiratory and will absorb the oxygen in the water around them, but the bubbles of CO2 they create won't naturally rise to the surface. This can cause the roots to suffocate. Hydroponics are the logical route because regular soil will deplete its nutrient supply, but you still need a root growth substrate. The current "Veggie" system uses vermiculite clay chips contained in a pouch. They had to use the right gauge of particle diameter though: too small and it will saturate with water and suffocate the roots, too big and there won't be enough pressure gradient from the capillary action and the roots will dry out. Also, if you don't have your hydroponic nutrient solution just right, salts will build up in your substrate, so the pouches are typically single use. Our team developed a method for 3D printing a growth substrate. This eliminates the problem with particulates and it also allows you control the gauge of the holes in the material to get the right air/water ratio. You can even vary the hole sizes so the water is pulled by the capillary action more at the dry end and fills the medium more evenly with water. It's not a perfect solution. The hydrophilic nylon filament we used liked to warp when it was printed. It also doesn't work for root vegetables like potatoes and stuff. However, it is reusable, cleanable, recyclable, scalable, largely passive, and safe. Plus, everyone loves 3D printers. TL;DR Microgravity creates a lot of problems for growing plants in space, many of which aren't immediately obvious. 3D printed growth mediums might be a solution.
- mtchtrnr 10y ago
  (BTW... I recently graduated and am looking for a job. If anyone has any leads for a mech/aero engineer with some programming background, please get in touch via my profile )
  - grouplinkdave 10y ago
    Reading through the comments from the main article it seems the commentators are in two camps: 1) "...let's improve our engineering capabilities to solve this intriguing challenge..." [and later enjoy all the other side-benefits that come from being great engineers and problem-solvers]; and 2) why challenge ourselves in the first place [?]. I like to encourage and invest in visionary [and realistic] problem-solvers. Let's connect on that.
schwarze_pest 10y ago
There is an aerospace engineer (ex NASA or Air Force IIRC) who youtubes the science he does in his backyard: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd8t8Dq8oZeAjGDx_87azBw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd8t8Dq8oZeAjGDx_87azBw
openasocket 10y ago
Interesting quote: "In microgravity, your taste sensation is dulled." I haven't heard that before: anyone know why that is?
- takingflac 10y ago
  It has to do with the mucus in the nasal cavity not draining properly do to the lack of gravity. Most of your sense of taste is actually due to smell which is reduced when you have a stuffy nose. There are probably other contributing factors, but this is one I remember hearing.
jelliclesfarm 10y ago
I don't understand why we have to try and grow earth food plants in space? I don't even get it. We can't even grow food crops of tropical climes in America. Also Lettuce is not really a 'food' calories or nutrient wise. I don't get it.

98 points by dsr12 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

I see more metal than dirt in all of their experiments. No biohazard markers anywhere so probably not using waste. The best way to farm in space is to convert human waste into manure and compost, and you need to have other organisms to do that. I don't see red worms either. NASA won't be able to engineer plants in space, it will have to adopt a microbiome that exists on earth already that can be modularized into a spacecraft. Growing lettuce is a joke, you need to figure out how to make pigs and chickens into astronauts. I'm not joking.

Cthulhu_ 10y ago
Indeed; even if they can make lettuce grow, it's very low in nutritional value so they'd need to sacrifice a lot of space and energy into creating something edible. Potatoes would work better. Space pigs, too, but they'd require a lot of nutrients to keep alive and grow. iirc they need ten times as much food than what their meat is worth in nutritional value. The future is probably artificially produced food, like the porridge / sludge shown in the Matrix. Something out of a chemical process instead of a biological one.
- molsongolden 10y ago
  Algae and fungi have been popular in some recent "near-future" sci-fi.
  - kiliantics 10y ago
    This makes much more sense, then you can make soylent with it.
- infinite8s 10y ago
  Well, there is the recent innovation in vat-grown meat that supposedly has the same texture as 'real' meat.
- Pfhreak 10y ago
  Potatoes are an interesting case, but they require rooting around through soil to harvest. (Having grown potatoes in my garden last year, it was a much messier endeavor than my greens.) I'm not sure we're ready for all that soil to be floating around in the ISS, literally mucking things up. Not saying it isn't possible, but why not use lettuces to solve all the 'simple' problems about growing things in space first. Also, don't discount the quality of life improvement of eating some fresh lettuce.
  - eutectic 10y ago
    Aeroponics or hydroponics would help eliminate the mess issue.
- IndianAstronaut 10y ago
  >The future is probably artificially produced food, like the porridge / sludge shown in the Matrix. Something out of a chemical process instead of a biological one. I imagine we can synthesize relatively simple molecules such as glucose to supplement calories when needed by astronauts.
- jelliclesfarm 10y ago
  I agree. Artificial food can be 3-D printed for various textures and flavours can be added to make it seem familiar for those need the nostalgia.
Pfhreak 10y ago
Keep in mind that floating soil is problematic. There may be soil in the pouches there. Step one, discover whether pouches can support plant life in space, with ideal conditions set up beforehand on earth. Step two, discover whether you can manufacture said conditions in space using in situ materials. Lettuce is a great way to explore step one. Consider that we're not confident that root systems will behave correctly when water doesn't flow through the strata like it normally does with gravity. There are still fundamental research elements to be done.

dekhn 10y ago

Wait, why do we send people to space in the first place?

M_Grey 10y ago
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27721383 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27721383 Good question! The answer is that we know so little about surviving there for any appreciable length of time (compared to a human lifespan), that most don't understand the challenges. Meanwhile they're relative experts with the problems faced by a terrestrial existence. TL;DR The hydrogen is always redder in the other man's H-Alpha band.
- dekhn 10y ago
  The paper you cited explained why we shouldn't send people to space, not why we should.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
Anchor 10y ago
The classic answer would be http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/08/why-explore-space.html http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/08/why-explore-space.html
- dekhn 10y ago
  I'm fine with exploring space. My question is (given the context of how expensive it was to produce lettuce in space), why send humans?
  - Anchor 10y ago
    A less of a classic but a really good discussion http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/08/how-and-why-spacex-will-colonize-mars.html http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/08/how-and-why-spacex-will-coloni... (the whole Musk series is worth the read too).

junipergreen 10y ago

The blogs of the scientists who lived on fake Mars for a year in Hawaii make it clear how important food is for astronaut's mental health as well as physical nutritional needs: https://walking-on-red-dust.com/2016/06/18/domemade-food/ https://walking-on-red-dust.com/2016/06/18/domemade-food/

sampo 10y ago
A couple of years ago I listened to a talk by a plant scientist from Florida. They had some experiments, seedlings growing in the International Space Station. Every day one of the astronauts took photos of the seedlings, to document growth. He said that it was more or less everyone's favorite task in the space station. "Today I get to look at the plants", the astronauts would say.

CodeSheikh 10y ago

These are some very EXPENSIVE organic veggies.

imaginenore 10y ago

Why do they even need soil? Aeroponics is way more efficient.

mtchtrnr 10y ago

I was part of the USU team mentioned in the article. There are a lot of variables to take into account when growing plants in micgrogravity: Particulates, like soil, are actually considered a hazardous material in space because it can float into and clog up the ventilation. Capillary action is a dominant force in microgravity and water will coat everything. Roots are respiratory and will absorb the oxygen in the water around them, but the bubbles of CO2 they create won't naturally rise to the surface. This can cause the roots to suffocate. Hydroponics are the logical route because regular soil will deplete its nutrient supply, but you still need a root growth substrate. The current "Veggie" system uses vermiculite clay chips contained in a pouch. They had to use the right gauge of particle diameter though: too small and it will saturate with water and suffocate the roots, too big and there won't be enough pressure gradient from the capillary action and the roots will dry out. Also, if you don't have your hydroponic nutrient solution just right, salts will build up in your substrate, so the pouches are typically single use. Our team developed a method for 3D printing a growth substrate. This eliminates the problem with particulates and it also allows you control the gauge of the holes in the material to get the right air/water ratio. You can even vary the hole sizes so the water is pulled by the capillary action more at the dry end and fills the medium more evenly with water. It's not a perfect solution. The hydrophilic nylon filament we used liked to warp when it was printed. It also doesn't work for root vegetables like potatoes and stuff. However, it is reusable, cleanable, recyclable, scalable, largely passive, and safe. Plus, everyone loves 3D printers. TL;DR Microgravity creates a lot of problems for growing plants in space, many of which aren't immediately obvious. 3D printed growth mediums might be a solution.

mtchtrnr 10y ago
(BTW... I recently graduated and am looking for a job. If anyone has any leads for a mech/aero engineer with some programming background, please get in touch via my profile )
- grouplinkdave 10y ago
  Reading through the comments from the main article it seems the commentators are in two camps: 1) "...let's improve our engineering capabilities to solve this intriguing challenge..." [and later enjoy all the other side-benefits that come from being great engineers and problem-solvers]; and 2) why challenge ourselves in the first place [?]. I like to encourage and invest in visionary [and realistic] problem-solvers. Let's connect on that.

schwarze_pest 10y ago

There is an aerospace engineer (ex NASA or Air Force IIRC) who youtubes the science he does in his backyard: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd8t8Dq8oZeAjGDx_87azBw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd8t8Dq8oZeAjGDx_87azBw

openasocket 10y ago

Interesting quote: "In microgravity, your taste sensation is dulled." I haven't heard that before: anyone know why that is?

takingflac 10y ago
It has to do with the mucus in the nasal cavity not draining properly do to the lack of gravity. Most of your sense of taste is actually due to smell which is reduced when you have a stuffy nose. There are probably other contributing factors, but this is one I remember hearing.

jelliclesfarm 10y ago

I don't understand why we have to try and grow earth food plants in space? I don't even get it. We can't even grow food crops of tropical climes in America. Also Lettuce is not really a 'food' calories or nutrient wise. I don't get it.