4 ms·

This is what happens when you have a populist president, people start disregarding the law and listen to the President even if he/she is wrong. Imagine this ha

by nevi-me 10y ago

This is what happens when you have a populist president, people start disregarding the law and listen to the President even if he/she is wrong. Imagine this happening at the time when companies are starting to accept that you can't interview candidates solely by asking them to solve algorithms on a whiteboard, then some inexperienced staff go to Wikipedia and expect people to be able to recite it. The question's what happened as he said he was too exhausted, does he get flagged for secondary screening? The travel ban is suspended AFAIK. We are witnessing self-division at sad levels. We had a flare up of xenophobic attacks in South Africa last week. In an earlier incarnation of such attacks in 2008, mostly Zulu people would ask you what certain things are in Zulu, and if they perceived that you don't know what they are, they would accuse you of being a foreigner, and anything could happen to you. An example that became popular was "what is an elbow or knee in Zulu?". I'm not making this up, and this happened in a country with 11 official languages. The point I'm getting at is that this lawlessness started because a populist president and other leaders started shooting from the hip, making inflammatory statement and playing political football with our lives. Trump is worse IMHO as he signs an Executive Order and things go crazy until the courts can act. You should worry when your first citizen is not well-acquainted with your Constitution like our dear Jacob Zuma and your Donald Trump are. The country ends up being run through the courts, and the courts don't act expediently.

umanwizard 10y ago
Is there any evidence that this guy was specifically singled out for being non-white, or that this has anything to do with Trump at all? Border guards are allowed to ask you questions to see how you react and to corroborate your story. If someone (from any country) entered claiming to be a physicist, would it be reasonable to ask him to try to solve some integrals?
- bobwaycott 10y ago
  How would a border agent even prove they possess the necessary skills and knowledge to even verify the veracity of an answer? As a tech consultant who spends inordinate amounts of time explaining to clients various kinds of plausible-sounding bullshit from others, I seriously doubt border agents can fare better.
  - eh78ssxv2f 10y ago
    Well, they might have the key. If your answer does not match the answer in the key, BAM, you are not allowed. (Not saying that this is the correct approach, just saying that this is possible if correctness is not a goal.)
  - briandear 10y ago
    That's not the purpose of questioning - the answer doesn't matter, it's how the questions are answered. How are immigration officers supposed to do their jobs? The purpose of immigration officers isn't to just blindly stamp passports; they actually have to determine if the person attempting to enter should be allowed to enter. Which interestingly, is the job of immigration officers across the world. I feel like people are just looking for fight and begging for something about which to be outraged. Immigration and Customs officers from all countries have been doing this as long as there have been Customs and Immigration.
    - moftz 10y ago
      You could give any answer to those kind of questions and as long as you seem confident and sound truthful, you breeze past and aren't given a second look. The CBP officer might just happen to be knowledgeable in your field enough to be able to verify your answer or he may have no clue and just pulled a question from his ass. They are just looking for a reaction and the tone of your answer.
- nevi-me 10y ago
  I never said he was singled out, or by race/ethnicity/color even. Whether this relates to Trump: As others have pointed out, yes this has been happening before Trump, I'm not alluding to Trump being the sole cause. The point that I'm making is that leaders (president and even local leaders) who can make statements or take actions that are contrary to the country's laws have an effect on the guy on the streets. If you tell me that foreigners are taking our jobs (regardless of its truth), I might not be very objective as a CBP employee. I might even be biased against certain people, but that's hard to judge as we are different as humans. The guy on the tweet said he was asked 10 other questions, and they seemed to expect textbook/Wikipedia type answers. A blog post from him will hopefully have more details for us to make better observations. You make a fair point about the physicist, but everything in moderation is fair. My point if any, is that what leaders/politicians say affects our attitude and often opinions. Whether we like such leader or not, I hope we can agree on that at least.
  - 67726e 10y ago
    This story has nothing to do with Trump, his policies, or rhetoric. CBP tries to assess if a story is valid, this sounds like some kid who took a few classes being a dick. Stop trying to make every little thing about Trump because of your personal bias. You sound just as ignorant as the idiots who tried to pillory Obama at every turn.
- 467568985476 10y ago
  No, it wouldn't? What does a border guard know about calculus, much less some physicist's particular area of research? The whole reason this is farcical is that self-balancing search tree algorithms are notoriously based on multiple balancing cases and it's ridiculous to expect someone to have memorized them. Some even rely on amortized bounds which only complicates the implementation and explanation further.
  - comex 10y ago
    Even ignoring the border guard's competence, there's a difference between being able to solve problems and being able to solve problems after traveling for 23 hours straight - as @cyberomin said he had been. Maybe if it's pure recital from memory, something so basic that it should come to mind automatically without active thought (self-balancing trees are not even close), then I might trust myself to answer while sleep-deprived to that extent; but even then, I might easily make very stupid mistakes. If solving the problem requires even a bit of active intellectual effort, then forget about it; I'm too tired for that shit.
oh_sigh 10y ago
> This is what happens when you have a populist president, people start disregarding the law and listen to the President even if he/she is wrong. Where are you getting this from? You're linking the questions supposedly asked to someone entering the US to the president that was inaugurated a little more than 30 days ago, who has not passed any kind of legislation or EOs that would have any impact on what border control agents ask their clients. > The point I'm getting at is that this lawlessness started because a populist president and other leaders started shooting from the hip, making inflammatory statement and playing political football with our lives. Zuma has been in power since 2009. Ah yes, I remember the SA of 2008, such a peaceful, strife-free wonderland.
- nevi-me 10y ago
  I'll presume you to either also be South African or at least following politics here. Yes, Zuma wasn't in power, but this was around campaigning time leading up to 2009. The violence wasn't pervasive around most of the country, but was in many people's post-analysis linked to local politicking. The country wasn't different between 2008 and 2009, but as a township living black South African I can tell you that because of what populists have said, and the role of the media incorrectly reporting to click-bait us, things have gotten worse. To answer your first question, many people have posted that this has been happening in the US, what I'm saying is that if a senior political can say something popular yet Constitutionally incorrect, people who have the "power" to act on that will use their power.
lacampbell 10y ago
> This is what happens when you have a populist president Spare me. This stuff was happening pre-Trump, and it will happen post-Trump.
- matt_wulfeck 10y ago
  This is what happens when you have a president you don't like. Everything you don't like around you becomes their fault.
- lovelearning 10y ago
  People have been asked CS questions at airport security earlier too?
  - briandear 10y ago
    First, this wasn't airport security, this was immigration. Secondly, CBP officers routinely ask questions to incoming passengers -- even to Americans! Binary Trees? I don't know -- but neither does anyone else because we're talking hundreds of thousands of people per day and only a self-selecting few post their encounters on Twitter; all of the oil field workers returning from Africa probably aren't posting their every encounter with Immigration on Twitter. People having their bags ripped apart by Thai Customs aren't likely getting featured on Hacker News. How are Serbians treated when they transit the Frankfurt Airport? I have a friend who is a designer who was asked to open his computer and show some of his designs and I have had others who entered Germany/France with no problem. Most people don't post play-by-play of their travel experiences -- so we see a very narrow and potentially inaccurate view based on stereotypes and anecdotes rather than fact. All of this "anecdotes are now valid data" nonsense seems to be contradictory for a group of people who purport to be interested in software engineering and the implied respect for statistical validity that would encompass. Why is this even a story? Immigration officers ask questions to detect inconsistencies -- nothing at all new about that-- nothing even wrong with that. The guy couldn't even answer it and was still admitted. If he was arrested because he couldn't solve binary trees, now THAT would be a story.
- morgante 10y ago
Buge 10y ago
This was happening before Trump: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13742349 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13742349 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13741979 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13741979 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13742737 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13742737 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13741871 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13741871

by nevi-me 10y ago

umanwizard 10y ago

Is there any evidence that this guy was specifically singled out for being non-white, or that this has anything to do with Trump at all? Border guards are allowed to ask you questions to see how you react and to corroborate your story. If someone (from any country) entered claiming to be a physicist, would it be reasonable to ask him to try to solve some integrals?

bobwaycott 10y ago
How would a border agent even prove they possess the necessary skills and knowledge to even verify the veracity of an answer? As a tech consultant who spends inordinate amounts of time explaining to clients various kinds of plausible-sounding bullshit from others, I seriously doubt border agents can fare better.
- eh78ssxv2f 10y ago
  Well, they might have the key. If your answer does not match the answer in the key, BAM, you are not allowed. (Not saying that this is the correct approach, just saying that this is possible if correctness is not a goal.)
- briandear 10y ago
  That's not the purpose of questioning - the answer doesn't matter, it's how the questions are answered. How are immigration officers supposed to do their jobs? The purpose of immigration officers isn't to just blindly stamp passports; they actually have to determine if the person attempting to enter should be allowed to enter. Which interestingly, is the job of immigration officers across the world. I feel like people are just looking for fight and begging for something about which to be outraged. Immigration and Customs officers from all countries have been doing this as long as there have been Customs and Immigration.
  - moftz 10y ago
    You could give any answer to those kind of questions and as long as you seem confident and sound truthful, you breeze past and aren't given a second look. The CBP officer might just happen to be knowledgeable in your field enough to be able to verify your answer or he may have no clue and just pulled a question from his ass. They are just looking for a reaction and the tone of your answer.
nevi-me 10y ago
I never said he was singled out, or by race/ethnicity/color even. Whether this relates to Trump: As others have pointed out, yes this has been happening before Trump, I'm not alluding to Trump being the sole cause. The point that I'm making is that leaders (president and even local leaders) who can make statements or take actions that are contrary to the country's laws have an effect on the guy on the streets. If you tell me that foreigners are taking our jobs (regardless of its truth), I might not be very objective as a CBP employee. I might even be biased against certain people, but that's hard to judge as we are different as humans. The guy on the tweet said he was asked 10 other questions, and they seemed to expect textbook/Wikipedia type answers. A blog post from him will hopefully have more details for us to make better observations. You make a fair point about the physicist, but everything in moderation is fair. My point if any, is that what leaders/politicians say affects our attitude and often opinions. Whether we like such leader or not, I hope we can agree on that at least.
- 67726e 10y ago
  This story has nothing to do with Trump, his policies, or rhetoric. CBP tries to assess if a story is valid, this sounds like some kid who took a few classes being a dick. Stop trying to make every little thing about Trump because of your personal bias. You sound just as ignorant as the idiots who tried to pillory Obama at every turn.
467568985476 10y ago
No, it wouldn't? What does a border guard know about calculus, much less some physicist's particular area of research? The whole reason this is farcical is that self-balancing search tree algorithms are notoriously based on multiple balancing cases and it's ridiculous to expect someone to have memorized them. Some even rely on amortized bounds which only complicates the implementation and explanation further.
- comex 10y ago
  Even ignoring the border guard's competence, there's a difference between being able to solve problems and being able to solve problems after traveling for 23 hours straight - as @cyberomin said he had been. Maybe if it's pure recital from memory, something so basic that it should come to mind automatically without active thought (self-balancing trees are not even close), then I might trust myself to answer while sleep-deprived to that extent; but even then, I might easily make very stupid mistakes. If solving the problem requires even a bit of active intellectual effort, then forget about it; I'm too tired for that shit.

oh_sigh 10y ago

> This is what happens when you have a populist president, people start disregarding the law and listen to the President even if he/she is wrong. Where are you getting this from? You're linking the questions supposedly asked to someone entering the US to the president that was inaugurated a little more than 30 days ago, who has not passed any kind of legislation or EOs that would have any impact on what border control agents ask their clients. > The point I'm getting at is that this lawlessness started because a populist president and other leaders started shooting from the hip, making inflammatory statement and playing political football with our lives. Zuma has been in power since 2009. Ah yes, I remember the SA of 2008, such a peaceful, strife-free wonderland.

nevi-me 10y ago
I'll presume you to either also be South African or at least following politics here. Yes, Zuma wasn't in power, but this was around campaigning time leading up to 2009. The violence wasn't pervasive around most of the country, but was in many people's post-analysis linked to local politicking. The country wasn't different between 2008 and 2009, but as a township living black South African I can tell you that because of what populists have said, and the role of the media incorrectly reporting to click-bait us, things have gotten worse. To answer your first question, many people have posted that this has been happening in the US, what I'm saying is that if a senior political can say something popular yet Constitutionally incorrect, people who have the "power" to act on that will use their power.

lacampbell 10y ago

> This is what happens when you have a populist president Spare me. This stuff was happening pre-Trump, and it will happen post-Trump.

matt_wulfeck 10y ago
This is what happens when you have a president you don't like. Everything you don't like around you becomes their fault.
lovelearning 10y ago
People have been asked CS questions at airport security earlier too?
- briandear 10y ago
  First, this wasn't airport security, this was immigration. Secondly, CBP officers routinely ask questions to incoming passengers -- even to Americans! Binary Trees? I don't know -- but neither does anyone else because we're talking hundreds of thousands of people per day and only a self-selecting few post their encounters on Twitter; all of the oil field workers returning from Africa probably aren't posting their every encounter with Immigration on Twitter. People having their bags ripped apart by Thai Customs aren't likely getting featured on Hacker News. How are Serbians treated when they transit the Frankfurt Airport? I have a friend who is a designer who was asked to open his computer and show some of his designs and I have had others who entered Germany/France with no problem. Most people don't post play-by-play of their travel experiences -- so we see a very narrow and potentially inaccurate view based on stereotypes and anecdotes rather than fact. All of this "anecdotes are now valid data" nonsense seems to be contradictory for a group of people who purport to be interested in software engineering and the implied respect for statistical validity that would encompass. Why is this even a story? Immigration officers ask questions to detect inconsistencies -- nothing at all new about that-- nothing even wrong with that. The guy couldn't even answer it and was still admitted. If he was arrested because he couldn't solve binary trees, now THAT would be a story.
morgante 10y ago

Buge 10y ago

This was happening before Trump: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13742349 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13742349 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13741979 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13741979 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13742737 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13742737 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13741871 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13741871