4 ms·

Not a downvoter; what do you mean people who vote with their money?

by ygaf 10y ago

coldtea 10y ago
He means people who have skin in the game.
- ygaf 10y ago
  That being the case, he is implying there is only fiscal skin, and that people on UBI will have no fiscal matter to care about which sounds utopian.
  - douche 10y ago
    No one on UBI will ever vote to have their UBI reduced... Bread and circuses
    - anovikov 10y ago
      This is more or less what i meant. Why someone who is useless and knows it's irreversible, would vote for anything but more free stuff?
      - coldtea 10y ago
        Well, receiving payment from the state doesn't make one "useless" except in the eyes of the protestant work ethic, and all the moralistic garbage that comes with it. In fact people creating much monetary worth could be many orders of magnitude more useless and destructive for society than a welfare recipient.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    I guess he is alluding to a popular conception of welfare recipients as people who are only content to collect their checks, and don't have any other aspirations or financial/social stakes. Which might apply to some, but is a huge carricature on the whole. And even where it does apply, it's more because of a lack of opportunities and felt sense of systematic injustice rather than people being actual lazy stereotypes due to DNA or something.
anovikov 10y ago
Someone who votes decides that way for himself how he wants his or her tax money to be spent: what the guy he votes for will likely do with them? If you pay no taxes, you are not a responsible voter. If these people form a majority at some point, democracy is dead. UBI recipients don't fund the government, it is the other way around. They shouldn't vote (or some way must be found to make their votes irrelevant, like in Russia where they already have same problem because of oil money), or they will run any nation into the ground. Maybe it should be even formal: to vote you must voluntary renounce your UBI entitlement for the next electoral cycle.

Not a downvoter; what do you mean people who vote with their money?

by ygaf 10y ago

Not a downvoter; what do you mean people who vote with their money?

coldtea 10y ago

He means people who have skin in the game.

ygaf 10y ago
That being the case, he is implying there is only fiscal skin, and that people on UBI will have no fiscal matter to care about which sounds utopian.
- douche 10y ago
  No one on UBI will ever vote to have their UBI reduced... Bread and circuses
  - anovikov 10y ago
    This is more or less what i meant. Why someone who is useless and knows it's irreversible, would vote for anything but more free stuff?
    - coldtea 10y ago
      Well, receiving payment from the state doesn't make one "useless" except in the eyes of the protestant work ethic, and all the moralistic garbage that comes with it. In fact people creating much monetary worth could be many orders of magnitude more useless and destructive for society than a welfare recipient.
- coldtea 10y ago
  I guess he is alluding to a popular conception of welfare recipients as people who are only content to collect their checks, and don't have any other aspirations or financial/social stakes. Which might apply to some, but is a huge carricature on the whole. And even where it does apply, it's more because of a lack of opportunities and felt sense of systematic injustice rather than people being actual lazy stereotypes due to DNA or something.

anovikov 10y ago

Someone who votes decides that way for himself how he wants his or her tax money to be spent: what the guy he votes for will likely do with them? If you pay no taxes, you are not a responsible voter. If these people form a majority at some point, democracy is dead. UBI recipients don't fund the government, it is the other way around. They shouldn't vote (or some way must be found to make their votes irrelevant, like in Russia where they already have same problem because of oil money), or they will run any nation into the ground. Maybe it should be even formal: to vote you must voluntary renounce your UBI entitlement for the next electoral cycle.