12 ms·

Borderwise: App and a lawyer for immigrants, for $1

63 points by hackuser 10y ago

gnopgnip 10y ago
How can low income immigrants qualify for permanent residence in the US if they do not earn enough to support themselves?
- ceejayoz 10y ago
  They can be related to a US citizen (parent/child/spouse), have received a job offer in some skilled fields but be currently out of work or underemployed, be a refugee, etc.
  - wiz21c 10y ago
    spot on. I work on a database tracking the help given by the State to maaaany refugees, poors, whatever you call them, etc. The situations in which those people are very often extremely complex, confusing, etc. If one focus on money only, or self-determination, then you end up with a very tough, unfriendly, non human system...
    - hackuser 10y ago
      > The situations in which those people are very often extremely complex, confusing, etc. If one focus on money only, or self-determination, then you end up with a very tough, unfriendly, non human system... Could you share some examples. It would be valuable to learn about the reality of these issues on a personal level, rather than statistics. > refugees, poors, whatever you call them Let's call them people: People who are refugees, people who are poor, etc. (It's a general point and not a criticism of the parent, which like any comment I don't think should be taken literally and dissected.)
      - danso 10y ago
        Reminds me of the Onion report on the study that found "human babies, long thought by psychologists to be highly inquisitive and adaptable, are actually extraordinarily stupid." [0]. My parents were Vietnam War refugees. They had the legal clearance, and I believe eventually proved themselves to be hard-working and contributors to society, but they probably would have floundered if not for the initial cushion of government assistance (food stamps, welfare, etc) and the generosity of American host families. [0] http://www.physics.mcgill.ca/~arobic/funny/babies.html http://www.physics.mcgill.ca/~arobic/funny/babies.html
      - wiz21c 10y ago
        Indeed, those are the "people", no offense. So for example of a situation... Immigrant I comes in my country. He's intercepted by the police, I is sick, so the police send him to hospital. As the guy as no social security number, the hospital gives him a temporary one. The hospital pays the bill (yes, my country is socially very advanced). Then guy is better but, because the hospital paid the bill, he now has a special "register number" (more or less a social security number). The guy now reaches a "social help center". They find him a place to sleep. At the same time the guy request a request for asylum. For that he needs a lawyer because, well, he doesn't speak our language and our administration is sometimes complex. Now the guy is interviewed, because the state wants to make sure he is in the condition for asylum. Problem, he'll have to wait 6 months before the first real interview. So the guy starts to run out of money (eating, paying lawyer,...) so he seeks friends. Ah, those friends are somewhere else in my country. So he moves. Ah, friends are in deep shit for some reason, so he moves again. Now he has to be tied to another center for social help, more papers, more complex administration. He now has his first interview. Not a good one, the guy didn't manage to offer all the proofs. So the lawyer will help him to gather some more proofs. Second interview, better this time, he's on track to be recognized as a political refugee; but that'll take a year or two. More lawyers, more money, more small job, more moves from place to place. And all of this is OK if the guy keeps sane (yes, they are people who try to abuse the weaks). If this sound like a pile of facts, it is. But all those facts are gathered, analyzed, to determine what kind of help the person can receive from the state. And that makes my little database and rule model extremely complicated (or sophisticated, depending on your point of view).
- ucaetano 10y ago
  $10,000 - $30,000 is enough to support yourself in most places across the country. Yearly minimum wage @ 40hrs/week is $15,080.
- hackuser 10y ago
  Is there a rule saying they can't? I hope they can; my attitude toward immigration is that those are the people that need help and will benefit the most. From a statue in NY harbor: Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name MOTHER OF EXILES. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. . "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
  - mynameishere 10y ago
    Did you know that awful poetry tacked onto unrelated statuary does not dictate public policy? The entire media doesn't know this, so it's no shame if you don't either.
  - hasenj 10y ago
    Bringing people to a foreign land does not really help them that much. It is a much better form of help if you were to help them fix their own countries. Having to adjust to a new culture is not really fun (unless you had an interest in that culture for some reason; but this did not apply to "poor"immigrants).
    - zeroxfe 10y ago
      > It is a much better form of help if you were to help them fix their own countries. As an immigrant, let me tell you that immigration had a huge positive impact my family's lives. Of course fixing my country would be great... if it were even remotely possible.
      - hasenj 10y ago
        As an immigrant, I've seen many immigrants who have absolutely no interest in the culture or society of the country they immigrated to. Most people just want to get a citizenship because their own country's passport sucks and their country's economy and education and health care sucks.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
matthewowen 10y ago
> When he married an American woman and could then apply for a green card, he figured with his legal background he’d have no trouble filling out the paperwork himself. But the forms were so overly complicated and frustratingly counterintuitive that he gave up and hired an immigration attorney. When I applied for my green card I thought the whole process was pretty simple and straightforward. I do think it might be harder for someone with more complicated circumstances, or who doesn't speak english as a first language. But I do find it surprising how hard many people with (what seem to me to be) simple cases think it is...
- tptacek 10y ago
  You may not be aware of this, but lawful permanent resident status in the US is based on a quota system by country of origin. Immigrants from Central America can experience wait times for LPR status approaching twenty years. I haven't kept a consistently non-expired drivers license or license plate tag for more than 2 years. But if you screw up any of the procedural details of an LPR application in the US --- for instance, failing to timely notify any time your residence changes for any reason --- the penalty isn't a ticket, but rather the likely forfeiture of your application. So no, the process is not pretty simple and straightforward for a great many applicants.
  - matthewowen 10y ago
    As I mentioned in my original comment, I'm sure there are circumstances different from my own that are much more challenging. I can only speak to the experience coming from the UK (and I confess to assuming that the experience from Canada is comparable), and that's where I find surprise: people from the UK who presumably went through the same experience as me often claim that it's impossible to navigate without a lawyer. That's just not true.
    - tptacek 10y ago
      In fact, the overwhelming majority of resident aliens in this country seeking lawful permanent status face far more difficult challenges than you did. I'm not criticizing you, I'm just reporting a fact.
xienze 10y ago
In all seriousness, with the way certain cities, states, and a political party so ardently defend illegal immigrants, why is anyone bothering come here legally? If you live in SF, no one's gonna deport you. If you have a kid while in the country, they become a citizen. They'll get to use our public schools. When they get older they'll get in-state tuition for college. When you get sick you can feel free to go to any hospital you'd like, free of charge. And if you wait long enough, you'll probably be the beneficiary of a blanket amnesty act. Doing it legally is for suckers. There, I saved anyone looking to come to the US a lot of trouble.
- artursapek 10y ago
  I'm not sure your stance, but that's kind of the argument for beginning to enforce the law again. Our loose enforcement of immigration laws is a bit of a slap in the face to those of us who bothered to come here legally.
  - xienze 10y ago
    Maybe the sarcasm didn't come through well enough. But yes, I agree that all the points I listed show how pathetic or enforcement of immigration law is and how we're being taken advantage, willingly, by anyone who can make it here.
  - ceejayoz 10y ago
    I'm a former green card holder, and I've never personally felt it was a slap in the face. There are still a lot of benefits to the legal route, and knowing it took significant resources and time for an upper-class white kid from Australia gives me a bit of sympathy for the farm worker from Mexico.
- ng12 10y ago
  Just make sure to use the "undocumented" double-speak to mask the fact that you're doing anything unlawful.
  - dang 10y ago
hackuser 10y ago
One reason I posted this is that it gives the immigrants access to real expertise: An app designed by experts, and access to real legal advice. (Caveat: I don't know about the quality of the app or the lawyers beyond what this article says.) I've seen good-willed people try to create their own apps, advice, etc. But without expertise, the best intentions may lead to very bad results. You wouldn't well-intentioned lawyers giving immigrants IT security advice.
Dangeranger 10y ago
Dear creators, You really need to make a Spanish language version available from the home page. Nowhere do I see an easy way to translate the page, or an indication as to what languages the information has been translated to. Your primary audience is going to be native Spanish speakers, they likely have English language skills, but will be much more comfortable in their first language. Think about how this impediment is effecting your conversions, and your prospective customers ability to use your service.
- setra 10y ago
  I think if you use chrome it can auto translate things very easily.
  - hackuser 10y ago
    Auto-translated legal advice and critical information could be dangerous.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- slaveofallah93 10y ago
  Is it really possible to get a green card knowing no English at all?
  - Dangeranger 10y ago
    Probably not, however I am not a lawyer. The point I was trying to make is that it is in the interest of the company and it's users to make translated versions easily available.
  - Retric 10y ago
    It's possible to start the process with very limited English skills.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
manis404 10y ago
Is there any reason that Arabic language is not available? I hope they are not prioritizing one type of immigrant over another...

63 points by hackuser 10y ago

How can low income immigrants qualify for permanent residence in the US if they do not earn enough to support themselves?

ceejayoz 10y ago
They can be related to a US citizen (parent/child/spouse), have received a job offer in some skilled fields but be currently out of work or underemployed, be a refugee, etc.
- wiz21c 10y ago
  spot on. I work on a database tracking the help given by the State to maaaany refugees, poors, whatever you call them, etc. The situations in which those people are very often extremely complex, confusing, etc. If one focus on money only, or self-determination, then you end up with a very tough, unfriendly, non human system...
  - hackuser 10y ago
    > The situations in which those people are very often extremely complex, confusing, etc. If one focus on money only, or self-determination, then you end up with a very tough, unfriendly, non human system... Could you share some examples. It would be valuable to learn about the reality of these issues on a personal level, rather than statistics. > refugees, poors, whatever you call them Let's call them people: People who are refugees, people who are poor, etc. (It's a general point and not a criticism of the parent, which like any comment I don't think should be taken literally and dissected.)
    - danso 10y ago
      Reminds me of the Onion report on the study that found "human babies, long thought by psychologists to be highly inquisitive and adaptable, are actually extraordinarily stupid." [0]. My parents were Vietnam War refugees. They had the legal clearance, and I believe eventually proved themselves to be hard-working and contributors to society, but they probably would have floundered if not for the initial cushion of government assistance (food stamps, welfare, etc) and the generosity of American host families. [0] http://www.physics.mcgill.ca/~arobic/funny/babies.html http://www.physics.mcgill.ca/~arobic/funny/babies.html
    - wiz21c 10y ago
      Indeed, those are the "people", no offense. So for example of a situation... Immigrant I comes in my country. He's intercepted by the police, I is sick, so the police send him to hospital. As the guy as no social security number, the hospital gives him a temporary one. The hospital pays the bill (yes, my country is socially very advanced). Then guy is better but, because the hospital paid the bill, he now has a special "register number" (more or less a social security number). The guy now reaches a "social help center". They find him a place to sleep. At the same time the guy request a request for asylum. For that he needs a lawyer because, well, he doesn't speak our language and our administration is sometimes complex. Now the guy is interviewed, because the state wants to make sure he is in the condition for asylum. Problem, he'll have to wait 6 months before the first real interview. So the guy starts to run out of money (eating, paying lawyer,...) so he seeks friends. Ah, those friends are somewhere else in my country. So he moves. Ah, friends are in deep shit for some reason, so he moves again. Now he has to be tied to another center for social help, more papers, more complex administration. He now has his first interview. Not a good one, the guy didn't manage to offer all the proofs. So the lawyer will help him to gather some more proofs. Second interview, better this time, he's on track to be recognized as a political refugee; but that'll take a year or two. More lawyers, more money, more small job, more moves from place to place. And all of this is OK if the guy keeps sane (yes, they are people who try to abuse the weaks). If this sound like a pile of facts, it is. But all those facts are gathered, analyzed, to determine what kind of help the person can receive from the state. And that makes my little database and rule model extremely complicated (or sophisticated, depending on your point of view).
ucaetano 10y ago
$10,000 - $30,000 is enough to support yourself in most places across the country. Yearly minimum wage @ 40hrs/week is $15,080.
hackuser 10y ago
Is there a rule saying they can't? I hope they can; my attitude toward immigration is that those are the people that need help and will benefit the most. From a statue in NY harbor: Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name MOTHER OF EXILES. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. . "Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
- mynameishere 10y ago
  Did you know that awful poetry tacked onto unrelated statuary does not dictate public policy? The entire media doesn't know this, so it's no shame if you don't either.
- hasenj 10y ago
  Bringing people to a foreign land does not really help them that much. It is a much better form of help if you were to help them fix their own countries. Having to adjust to a new culture is not really fun (unless you had an interest in that culture for some reason; but this did not apply to "poor"immigrants).
  - zeroxfe 10y ago
    > It is a much better form of help if you were to help them fix their own countries. As an immigrant, let me tell you that immigration had a huge positive impact my family's lives. Of course fixing my country would be great... if it were even remotely possible.
    - hasenj 10y ago
      As an immigrant, I've seen many immigrants who have absolutely no interest in the culture or society of the country they immigrated to. Most people just want to get a citizenship because their own country's passport sucks and their country's economy and education and health care sucks.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

matthewowen 10y ago

> When he married an American woman and could then apply for a green card, he figured with his legal background he’d have no trouble filling out the paperwork himself. But the forms were so overly complicated and frustratingly counterintuitive that he gave up and hired an immigration attorney. When I applied for my green card I thought the whole process was pretty simple and straightforward. I do think it might be harder for someone with more complicated circumstances, or who doesn't speak english as a first language. But I do find it surprising how hard many people with (what seem to me to be) simple cases think it is...

tptacek 10y ago
You may not be aware of this, but lawful permanent resident status in the US is based on a quota system by country of origin. Immigrants from Central America can experience wait times for LPR status approaching twenty years. I haven't kept a consistently non-expired drivers license or license plate tag for more than 2 years. But if you screw up any of the procedural details of an LPR application in the US --- for instance, failing to timely notify any time your residence changes for any reason --- the penalty isn't a ticket, but rather the likely forfeiture of your application. So no, the process is not pretty simple and straightforward for a great many applicants.
- matthewowen 10y ago
  As I mentioned in my original comment, I'm sure there are circumstances different from my own that are much more challenging. I can only speak to the experience coming from the UK (and I confess to assuming that the experience from Canada is comparable), and that's where I find surprise: people from the UK who presumably went through the same experience as me often claim that it's impossible to navigate without a lawyer. That's just not true.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    In fact, the overwhelming majority of resident aliens in this country seeking lawful permanent status face far more difficult challenges than you did. I'm not criticizing you, I'm just reporting a fact.

xienze 10y ago

In all seriousness, with the way certain cities, states, and a political party so ardently defend illegal immigrants, why is anyone bothering come here legally? If you live in SF, no one's gonna deport you. If you have a kid while in the country, they become a citizen. They'll get to use our public schools. When they get older they'll get in-state tuition for college. When you get sick you can feel free to go to any hospital you'd like, free of charge. And if you wait long enough, you'll probably be the beneficiary of a blanket amnesty act. Doing it legally is for suckers. There, I saved anyone looking to come to the US a lot of trouble.

artursapek 10y ago
I'm not sure your stance, but that's kind of the argument for beginning to enforce the law again. Our loose enforcement of immigration laws is a bit of a slap in the face to those of us who bothered to come here legally.
- xienze 10y ago
  Maybe the sarcasm didn't come through well enough. But yes, I agree that all the points I listed show how pathetic or enforcement of immigration law is and how we're being taken advantage, willingly, by anyone who can make it here.
- ceejayoz 10y ago
  I'm a former green card holder, and I've never personally felt it was a slap in the face. There are still a lot of benefits to the legal route, and knowing it took significant resources and time for an upper-class white kid from Australia gives me a bit of sympathy for the farm worker from Mexico.
ng12 10y ago
Just make sure to use the "undocumented" double-speak to mask the fact that you're doing anything unlawful.
- dang 10y ago

hackuser 10y ago

One reason I posted this is that it gives the immigrants access to real expertise: An app designed by experts, and access to real legal advice. (Caveat: I don't know about the quality of the app or the lawyers beyond what this article says.) I've seen good-willed people try to create their own apps, advice, etc. But without expertise, the best intentions may lead to very bad results. You wouldn't well-intentioned lawyers giving immigrants IT security advice.

Dangeranger 10y ago

Dear creators, You really need to make a Spanish language version available from the home page. Nowhere do I see an easy way to translate the page, or an indication as to what languages the information has been translated to. Your primary audience is going to be native Spanish speakers, they likely have English language skills, but will be much more comfortable in their first language. Think about how this impediment is effecting your conversions, and your prospective customers ability to use your service.

setra 10y ago
I think if you use chrome it can auto translate things very easily.
- hackuser 10y ago
  Auto-translated legal advice and critical information could be dangerous.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
slaveofallah93 10y ago
Is it really possible to get a green card knowing no English at all?
- Dangeranger 10y ago
  Probably not, however I am not a lawyer. The point I was trying to make is that it is in the interest of the company and it's users to make translated versions easily available.
- Retric 10y ago
  It's possible to start the process with very limited English skills.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

manis404 10y ago

Is there any reason that Arabic language is not available? I hope they are not prioritizing one type of immigrant over another...