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Fasting diet 'regenerates diabetic pancreas'
- amelius 10y ago> He told the BBC: "It boils down to do not try this at home, this is so much more sophisticated than people realise." He said people could "get into trouble" with their health if it was done without medical guidance. Ok, where can I find more information?
- hownottowrite 10y agohttp://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(17)30130-7 http://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(17)30130-7 It's called a fast mimicking diet or FMD. Quantified Bob took it on last year: https://www.quantifiedbob.com/2016/04/fasting-mimicking-diet/ https://www.quantifiedbob.com/2016/04/fasting-mimicking-diet...
- JustSomeNobody 10y agoA doctor?
- austinjp 10y agoReddit thread with lots of discussion: http://reddit.com/r/science/comments/5vufpb/the_pancreas_can_be_triggered_to_regenerate/ http://reddit.com/r/science/comments/5vufpb/the_pancreas_can...
- cromulent 10y agoA friend of mine was on the brink of Type 2 diabetes and reversed the symptoms / indicators after reading about the Newcastle University study. Worked for him. http://www.ncl.ac.uk/press/news/2015/10/type2diabetes/ http://www.ncl.ac.uk/press/news/2015/10/type2diabetes/
- noir_lord 10y agoI had metabolic syndrome x, pretty much the final stage before type 2 diabetes. I also had an undiagnosed (despite every test the docs could think off). I went on a 1500 calorie a day diet for 7 months and dropped weight from 245lbs to 185lbs (I'm 6 foot) at the next doc appointment indicators where all in normal range and at the most recent they where all excellent for someone my age. Diet for this 7 months was cottage cheese, veg, nuts and rolled oat porridge with either chicken or fish and veg. No fruit, lots of supplements and a protein shake before bed. First month was grim I felt terrible all the time but every month after was easier.
- mwpmaybe 10y agoUndiagnosed what?
- rb1 10y agoAFAIK, type 1 diabetes is thought to be an autoimmune disease, where the immune system incorrectly identifies the beta cells as an infection/foreign body and destroys them. With that in mind, I wonder how effective this actually is. I (I'm a T1 diabetic) grow some new beta cells, my overly aggressive immune system wipes them out again.. EDIT: reading the reddit thread (https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/5vufpb/the_pancreas_can_be_triggered_to_regenerate/ https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/5vufpb/the_pancrea... - thanks austinjp) i'm not the only one to ask this. The general consensus is it's not going to be useful for T1 diabetics, it's just treating the symptoms, not the cause (the immune system), again (like injecting insulin).
- 6d6b73 10y agoThis might have something to do with that study few years ago that indicated that fast 3 day fast resets the immune system. Prolonged Fasting Reduces IGF-1/PKAto Promote Hematopoietic-Stem-Cell-Based Regeneration and Reverse Immunosuppression https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B97CJJ5YOfctTUoxWkVFN3Y4b3M https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B97CJJ5YOfctTUoxWkVFN3Y4b3M
- cmdrfred 10y agoI wonder if this might of been a repair mechanism evolved when going some time without access to food was more common. Perhaps there is a biological reason certain organs can't be repaired while the digestive system is running at full capacity.
- hajderr 10y agoI'm a fan of fasting, thanks for sharing this! All guys/gals with any sort of disease, I pray you all get well and better soon!
- mrfusion 10y agoI'm confused. I thought type 2 diabetes was cells becoming resistant to insulin. Not anything wrong with the pancreas.
- ak39 10y agoEventually pancreas stop producing insulin. That's the full stage diabetes.
- cowpewter 10y agoHigh blood sugar damages the pancreas beta cells. If you have poorly controlled high blood sugar for long enough, you will lose the ability to make insulin in addition to being insulin resistant.
- consp 10y agoThat is type 2 diabetes, and is genrerally avoidable with proper diet anyways for most people. (your results may vary). This won't fix any type 1 people otherwise plenty of teenage girls would have been gotten rid of t1 diabetes already.
- cowpewter 10y agoI was replying to a comment about T2 diabetes. If you're genetically predisposed, then "proper diet" is pretty strict. I am a T2 diabetic, and control my blood sugar with a low carb diet. I'm pretty familiar.
- consp 10y agoThere are many form but the general thin is that cells get resistant to massive amounts of insulin, which are caused by high blood sugars, resulting in higher blood sugars and/or higher insulin levels which can cause damage to any tissue. As far as I know (I have T1 diabetes, no doctor though) the Beta cells producing insulin have (like any cells) a sort-of define lifetime/production level and stressing them out doesn't help you in the long run. You can take medication to allow cells to have easier access to insulin, be more susceptible to it or increase the betacell insulin production but these are generally stopgap measures which in the end result in nearing Type 1 insulin levels if no change in lifestyle is taken. Many old people will get it (Type 2) anyway since the pancreas is simply out of juice, but with relatively simple medication it can be managed. Eating like a fat pig will definitely accelerate the reduction in betacell insulin production capacity and increase the insulin resistance of other cells as described above (nice feedback effect).
- bresc 10y agoI don't understand why it's potentially so dangerous to try it out on your own. Fasting is kinda natural. Assuming you go back to the roots and live in the forest. You are not going to eat every day... so why is it suddenly so dangerous? Some explanation on the risks would have been helpful.
- oskarth 10y agoIt isn't risky. It's a liability thing. Disclaimer: Not a doctor.
- miguelrochefort 10y agoVery meta.
- azinman2 10y agoSo you state something as fact yet don't actually have the expertise to understand if that's even true? I'm not a medical doctor, but it seems fairly reasonable to me that people with diabetes shouldn't arbitrarily and radically change their diet because of an article they read on the internet...
- oskarth 10y agoIf you believe most doctors have expertise in nutrition and fasting you've not been paying attention. It seems fairly obviously no one should arbitrarily and radically do anything just because someone told them to. There are a lot of special circumstances, but thankful there are useful concepts such as personal responsibility and common sense that have generally been useful in keeping humans alive for quite a while.
- cowpewter 10y agoIt's risky if you shoot up insulin every day, or take other drugs that have an effect on blood sugar. You could wind up in a hypoglycemic coma and die.
- baldfat 10y ago
- hannob 10y agoYesterday: BBC story about replication problems in science and weak studies at the top of hacker news. Today: Story about a weak, non-replicated animal study at the top of hacker news.
- baldfat 10y agoYou can always look into fasting as a medical research study. For the last few decades it just keeps increasing. 1) Decades old research on brain capacity and benefits of fasting http://www.johnshopkinshealthreview.com/issues/spring-summer-2016/articles/are-there-any-proven-benefits-to-fasting http://www.johnshopkinshealthreview.com/issues/spring-summer... 2) Fasting increases chemotheraphy effectiveness in some chemos. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fasting-might-boost-chemo/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fasting-might-boo... The research has been going on for a decade about metabolic. I use to fast once a week from dinner to dinner (Prior to midnight day break most of the world's day started at sunset so a day fast was from sunset to sunset). I seriously need to jump back on the fasting bandwagon my self-discipline has gotten lower and lower ever since I hit my mid-thirties and got married.
- hannob 10y agoNot sure what you're trying to tell me. The first link you provide doesn't link to the original research it's talking about. The second is about a mouse study. Maybe you're trying to reinforce my point that the HN audience likes to quote weak scientific evidence.
- leonroy 10y agoI see nothing wrong with the BBC article - it could be more accurate by adding 'in mice' to the subject but that's the only problem I see. Research starts somewhere. If you're genuinely interested in quality, well researched information there's a documentary on the subject of fasting which I can highly recommend. Changed my perspective on the matter: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvdbtt_eat-fast-live-longer-hd_shortfilms http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvdbtt_eat-fast-live-longer...
- perseusprime11 10y agoThere was a headline yesterday on HN that most scientific results cannot be peer reviewed. Maybe this too falls in that category and we have to take it with a grain of salt.
- johnspiral 10y agoType 1 diabetic here, I'm sure if you still retain a small amount of basal insulin in combination with regular glucose monitoring I can't see how it would be dangerous? The real danger would be the billion dollar insulin business looking to discredit this research.
- llccbb 10y agoThe insulin cartels are real!
- karmel 10y agoIt is worth noting that while there is evidence that murine beta cells can regenerate even late into life, there is very little indication that human beta cells can do the same. Many beta cell regeneration studies die in between mouse and human studies. Some more on the questions around regeneration here: http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/59/10/2340 http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/59/10/2340 with discussion of human versus rodent toward the end.
- eyugwefuy 10y agoHow to read this thread: "what's right _for me_" not "what's right". Also, it's impractical to fast when you have work to do and meetings. You risk becoming cranky and grumpy and pissing colleagues off. Better to fast when you have a day off or at night.
- sdiepend 10y agoRecent related discussion from hn: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13686671 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13686671
- micro_cam 10y agoDiabetic and former Diabetes genetic researcher here. To paraphrase an old mentor, curing diabetes in mice is kind of the sport of the field. It's been done a number of times. Mice have some abilities to regrow tissue we don't. It's unclear how well various mouse models for diabetes mimic the human phenotypes. I am very hopefully for this line of research in general but I expect any cure in humans will be more complex and perhaps also deal with somehow suppressing the immune response that destroys the Beta cells in type 1's like myself. For a type 1 the best I'd expect something like this to be able to achieve is a temporary return to the "honeymoon" period where the pancreas still produces enough insulin to make small adjustments but supplemental insulin is required. On a personal level i have found that diet can have massive effects on my diabetes management. I may try a diet like this (with the advice of a doctor in adjusting insulin to handle it well etc and with the realization i may need to break the diet to treat low blood sugars etc). Edit: I also use a continuous glucose monitor which helps greatly with avoiding low bloodsugars while changing diet/activity levels and recommend one to any other diabetics.
- ecesena 10y ago"in mice" should be added to the title. this is (dangerous) clickbait.
- rando444 10y agoI don't think that I would call a low calorie diet that only lasts for a few days out of the entire month 'dangerous'.
- jlg23 10y agoAs the article pointed out it should not be tried without medical supervision, and the root of the comment thread also pointed out that s/he is using a continuous glucose monitor to prevent low blood sugar levels when changing or adjusting diets. For diabetics, diets, esp. radical diets can very easily lead to life-threatening situations.
- roywiggins 10y ago
- overcast 10y agoApparently I've been fasting daily pretty much most of my adult life. Last meal between 17-20, I generally never eat breakfast, and then eat lunch between 12-14. Maybe that explains why I'm rarely sick, and haven't been to a doctor since I was fourteen?
- gukov 10y agoIf T1D is properly managed (frequent testing, insulin injection every meal), fasting actually poses less danger than a typical diet that has carbs in every meal. Carbs set you up for a wild swing.
- consp 10y agoI would like to have some info on that as when I don't eat for extended periods of time my bloodsucker goes haywire no matter what I do (insulin wise), as well as having nightly hypoglycemia no matter what. Nobody reacts the same unfortunately...
- manarth 10y agoTotally irrelevant, but (assuming you don't have a tame vampire) I'm amused that "bloodsugar" gets autocorrected to "bloodsucker" :-D
- gukov 10y agoThe liver dumps some glucose in the morning (partly to wake you up). You're also somewhat insulin resistant in the morning. I take 3-4 units just to stay level until lunch, when insulin starts working again. As the day progresses, I feel like the body becomes saturated with insulin, and everything is more predictable. I try not to eat after 8-9pm. Pretty similar to the eight hour diet: you eat between noon and 8pm. Hope that helps.
- jimrandomh 10y agoI have gone through this thread and given a downvote to every post that's giving dangerously-incorrect medical advice. Which seems to be most of them. I don't expect anyone who's actually diabetic to fall for this; every T1 diabetic is in practice forced to become an expert. But, for the sake of confused bystanders: for a diabetic using insulin, fasting is dangerous. That's not an abundance of caution thing; we diabetics micromanage a key part of our metabolism using insulin, and if we leave the range of metabolic states we're familiar with we'll get insulin dosages wrong. The most likely outcome of trying to fast for a day would be being forced to abort the fast by hypoglycemia.
- hockeybias 10y agoAs a person with type 1 diabetes I would like to add that, just as one has to learn what amounts of insulin to inject when one first starts using insulin with his/her given diet, one would need to learn what amounts of insulin are appropriate for the days one is on this diet. And if you had to abort the fast a few times before you home in on your insulin needs during the fast, that is not a life or death situation. I feel you are being too cautious. Please chime in if you feel I'm being cavalier. Thanks! I too use a continuous glucose monitor.
- dghughes 10y agoAs someone with diabetes on both sides of my family this sounds dangerous even under a doctor's supervision.
- DrScump 10y agoPDF of the paper in Cell, with images: http://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(17)30130-7.pdf http://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(17)30130-7.pdf Details on the human feedings: "The human version of the FMD is a propriety formulation belonging to L-Nutra (http://l-nutra.com/prolon/ http://l-nutra.com/prolon/). It is a plant-based diet designed to attain fasting-like effects on the serum levels of IGF-I, IGFBP1, glucose and ketone bodies while providing both macro- and micronutrients to minimize the burden of fasting and adverse effects (Brandhorst et al., 2015). Day 1 of the FMD supplies ∼4600 kJ (11% protein, 46% fat, 43% carbohydrate), whereas days 2-5 provide ∼3000 kJ (9% protein, 44% fat, 47% carbohydrate) per day. The FMD comprises proprietary formulations of vegetable-based soups, energy bars, energy drinks, chip snacks, tea, and a supplement providing high levels of minerals, vitamins and essential fatty acids (Figure S3). All items to be consumed per day were individually boxed to allow the subjects to choose when to eat while avoiding accidentally consuming components of the following day. For the human subjects, a suggested FMD meal plan was provided that distributes the study foods to be consumed as breakfast, lunch, snacks, and dinner. (See lists below for ingredients and supplements)"