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> In a memo made public on Thursday, Attorney General Jeff Sessions said the Obama policy impaired the government's ability to meet the future needs of the fede

> In a memo made public on Thursday, Attorney General Jeff Sessions said the Obama policy impaired the government's ability to meet the future needs of the federal prison system. > The Obama administration said in August 2016 it planned a gradual phase-out of private prisons by letting contracts expire or by scaling them back to a level consistent with recent declines in the U.S. prison population. Yeah, dictators need places to lock up dissidents. Trump's foreseeing incarceration growth.

adventured 10y ago
> Yeah, dictators need places to lock up dissidents. Trump's foreseeing incarceration growth. You mean Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton and George W Bush were foreseeing incarceration growth when their policies helped to put millions into government prisons over decades? Was Bill Clinton plotting dictatorship when the active US incarceration number went from 1.3 million to 2+ million in just his eight years? Do me a favor and post the total number of people that have gone into government prisons vs private prisons, since the incarceration boom began 36 years ago. Here's a hint: nearly the entire incarceration boom was centered around government prisons until the last ten years, a time in which both the US prison and US jail population has declined.
- Benjamin_Dobell 10y ago
  What point are you trying to make? Are you suggesting that if there were less Government run prisons and more private prisons, there'd be less people in Government run prisons? Cause, ah... yeah.
  - adventured 10y ago
    I'm pointing out the extraordinary hypocrisy that is almost universal in threads when it comes to people that are afraid of and upset about private prisons - meanwhile over 90% of all those millions of people that were put into prison from 1980 forward, the boom years, went into government prisons - yet where's the fear? Just look at how my facts based challenge to the private prison hysteria is being downvoted, because nobody wants to discuss this: the government prison complex was and is drastically worse than anything the private prison industry has done, yet where's the protest? Where's the anger and fear about the government prison complex? (which is still radically larger than the private prison industry) Know who benefited the most from the war on drugs incarceration boom? Millions of government employees, who derived hundreds of billions of dollars in total pay over decades, from the vast expansion of arrests and government incarceration, from 1980 to ~2000.
    - Benjamin_Dobell 10y ago
      The issue is your argument doesn't make any sense, that's why you're being down-voted. You're making a huge assumption that people's dislike (or "fear" as you've called it) of private prisons is somehow related to the distribution of prisoners between Government and private prisons. What gives you that impression?
      - adventured 10y ago
        There is no argument. The government prison complex is and has been radically worse than the private prison industry, and that fact is always aggressively ignored here. I'm not making any assumptions, I've read dozens of threads on HN about this for example, spanning years. The fear is almost universally directed at private prisons, while the posters strictly ignore that almost all of the people went into government prisons during the incarceration boom. Where's the fear and hysteria for the government prison complex that has always dwarfed the private prison industry? And prior to the last ten years, dwarfed was extremely understating the situation.
        0134340 10y ago
        I think a lot of people are arguing for accountability. Society tends to source important roles to government because it is 'for and by the people', there's direct relation and accountability there. To me, private prisons are like Linux depending on 3rd party modules for something as important and ubiquitous as ext3 support. I'm all for cutting the needless cruft off of government and keeping the kernel from getting bloated, so to speak, but prisons and other major roles of society where accountability and direct communication with the people is of utmost importance, this is something that should reside within government. Like the Linux kernel, I think all important functions should stay within direct reach and have direct interoperability. At the cost of resorting to slippery slope and being light-hearted here, what's next, a McDonald's-sponsored drive-thru DMV? On second thought, DMV could learn a few things from McDonald's there but I'd be very leery of McDonald's handling my important tasks and the direct power of the people would get watered down with every government function relegated to corporations.
- lkrubner 10y ago
  I think it is universally understood that Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton and George W Bush established the trend. You seem to think that nobody understands this, but I think everyone understands this. There has been a growing authoritarian trend that goes back decades. The trend is worrisome. One manifestation is private prisons. There are lots of other manifestations, too many to discuss here. We can criticize the latest manifestation, and also acknowledge that the problem has deep roots in time. You sound like you feel this is an either/or situation, but I think many of us who care about civil liberties are worried about the entire 40 year trend. It's especially worrisome to think where we end up if we continue in this direction for another 20 years. With prisons and with all other issues regarding civil liberties, the current trend is ominous.

adventured 10y ago

> Yeah, dictators need places to lock up dissidents. Trump's foreseeing incarceration growth. You mean Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton and George W Bush were foreseeing incarceration growth when their policies helped to put millions into government prisons over decades? Was Bill Clinton plotting dictatorship when the active US incarceration number went from 1.3 million to 2+ million in just his eight years? Do me a favor and post the total number of people that have gone into government prisons vs private prisons, since the incarceration boom began 36 years ago. Here's a hint: nearly the entire incarceration boom was centered around government prisons until the last ten years, a time in which both the US prison and US jail population has declined.

Benjamin_Dobell 10y ago
What point are you trying to make? Are you suggesting that if there were less Government run prisons and more private prisons, there'd be less people in Government run prisons? Cause, ah... yeah.
- adventured 10y ago
  I'm pointing out the extraordinary hypocrisy that is almost universal in threads when it comes to people that are afraid of and upset about private prisons - meanwhile over 90% of all those millions of people that were put into prison from 1980 forward, the boom years, went into government prisons - yet where's the fear? Just look at how my facts based challenge to the private prison hysteria is being downvoted, because nobody wants to discuss this: the government prison complex was and is drastically worse than anything the private prison industry has done, yet where's the protest? Where's the anger and fear about the government prison complex? (which is still radically larger than the private prison industry) Know who benefited the most from the war on drugs incarceration boom? Millions of government employees, who derived hundreds of billions of dollars in total pay over decades, from the vast expansion of arrests and government incarceration, from 1980 to ~2000.
  - Benjamin_Dobell 10y ago
    The issue is your argument doesn't make any sense, that's why you're being down-voted. You're making a huge assumption that people's dislike (or "fear" as you've called it) of private prisons is somehow related to the distribution of prisoners between Government and private prisons. What gives you that impression?
    - adventured 10y ago
      There is no argument. The government prison complex is and has been radically worse than the private prison industry, and that fact is always aggressively ignored here. I'm not making any assumptions, I've read dozens of threads on HN about this for example, spanning years. The fear is almost universally directed at private prisons, while the posters strictly ignore that almost all of the people went into government prisons during the incarceration boom. Where's the fear and hysteria for the government prison complex that has always dwarfed the private prison industry? And prior to the last ten years, dwarfed was extremely understating the situation.
      - 0134340 10y ago
        I think a lot of people are arguing for accountability. Society tends to source important roles to government because it is 'for and by the people', there's direct relation and accountability there. To me, private prisons are like Linux depending on 3rd party modules for something as important and ubiquitous as ext3 support. I'm all for cutting the needless cruft off of government and keeping the kernel from getting bloated, so to speak, but prisons and other major roles of society where accountability and direct communication with the people is of utmost importance, this is something that should reside within government. Like the Linux kernel, I think all important functions should stay within direct reach and have direct interoperability. At the cost of resorting to slippery slope and being light-hearted here, what's next, a McDonald's-sponsored drive-thru DMV? On second thought, DMV could learn a few things from McDonald's there but I'd be very leery of McDonald's handling my important tasks and the direct power of the people would get watered down with every government function relegated to corporations.
lkrubner 10y ago
I think it is universally understood that Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton and George W Bush established the trend. You seem to think that nobody understands this, but I think everyone understands this. There has been a growing authoritarian trend that goes back decades. The trend is worrisome. One manifestation is private prisons. There are lots of other manifestations, too many to discuss here. We can criticize the latest manifestation, and also acknowledge that the problem has deep roots in time. You sound like you feel this is an either/or situation, but I think many of us who care about civil liberties are worried about the entire 40 year trend. It's especially worrisome to think where we end up if we continue in this direction for another 20 years. With prisons and with all other issues regarding civil liberties, the current trend is ominous.