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You seem to have deleted your other comment further down the thread (or maybe an admin did), so I can't respond to it, but I'll respond here instead. Coercion

by lambda 16y ago

You seem to have deleted your other comment further down the thread (or maybe an admin did), so I can't respond to it, but I'll respond here instead. Coercion is when you do something that you ordinarily wouldn't (or don't do something you ordinarily would) because you feel threatened. For instance, I am coerced by society into wearing clothes on a hot summer day; I might choose to strip naked, walk down to the river, and take a swim, but because I'm afraid of being arrested, I don't do such a thing. Coercion can happen even when there isn't a direct threat of violence, however. You might make someone believe that they have no choice but to take the job you're offering at a strip club; even if in reality, there are other choices they could make that they might be happier with, if you convince them that it's your way or the highway, you've managed to coerce them. This is a bad thing; it's a kind of fraud, something where you convince someone to do something on the basis of a lie, making them do things that they might not out of fear. Not everyone is a perfect, rational, utility-maximizing agent; everyone has fears, poor judgement about certain things, and the like. Manipulating that for your own ends is evil and wrong; and yes, there are sometimes small, mundane manipulations and coercions that you're never going to eliminate or are too small to be worth worrying about, but that doesn't excuse them, nor does it excuse more egregious coercion and fraud.

asdflkj 16y ago
Fair enough, but in that sense, it's not clear that anyone was being coerced. I grew up in former USSR, and people in that part of the world are much more efficient utility-maximizing agents, and unfortunately things like social responsibility are considered of no utility. A girl might easily choose prostitution as a career path (so far so good), and when it suits her, make herself look like a victim to a bunch of pious Westerners. I deleted my comments because on a closer look, what I object to is only slightly related to the topic. Namely, the idea that all prostitutes are victims, and all other people involved in prostitution are evildoers. My moral axioms probably aren't those of the HN majority, so I could get nothing out of this besides frustration. Also, I didn't read the article. Also, thanks for the reassuring calm tone of your response. This is just the thing for bedtime :)

by lambda 16y ago

asdflkj 16y ago

Fair enough, but in that sense, it's not clear that anyone was being coerced. I grew up in former USSR, and people in that part of the world are much more efficient utility-maximizing agents, and unfortunately things like social responsibility are considered of no utility. A girl might easily choose prostitution as a career path (so far so good), and when it suits her, make herself look like a victim to a bunch of pious Westerners. I deleted my comments because on a closer look, what I object to is only slightly related to the topic. Namely, the idea that all prostitutes are victims, and all other people involved in prostitution are evildoers. My moral axioms probably aren't those of the HN majority, so I could get nothing out of this besides frustration. Also, I didn't read the article. Also, thanks for the reassuring calm tone of your response. This is just the thing for bedtime :)