7 ms·

What it’s like remote working in Nepal

105 points by williswee 10y ago

mixmastamyk 10y ago
Awesome. I was in Nepal in '96 for a study abroad trip and had a wonderful time. Lived for months in Ktm, Pokara, and up along the Kali Gandaki river. Made a flight alongside Everest. Studied anthropology and geography/geology. I remember internet was almost unheard of there at the time. I did find some cafes to send email and little else at the time. I seem to remember UUCP (hehe) being involved but so long ago the details have faded. Had to send my mom a fax because it was the fastest way to communicate when telephone was a couple bucks a minute. ((boggle)) Always wanted to go back, was just the twentieth anniversary and though I couldn't go back last year due to family issues, I'd love to go this summer. This piece has given me the last little piece I needed. Glad to hear the food is better too! Nepali food was always good and healthy, but I have a funny memory of "Maxican" food on the menu. Curried stuff in the shape of a taco (uggh).
ensiferum 10y ago
It's also a total dump. Very disorganized 3rd world country. Thailand in contrast is an order of magnitude more developed, especially Bangkok. The traffic is intense chaos. The streets are very dusty and dirty. Food is semi-ok in the few western style restaurants in Kathmandu otherwise it's just (mostly) rice (hard, not soft fragrant type) and some crappy sauce loaded with MSG. Rubbish is everywhere, I mean literally it's like living in the middle of a dump site. Just a few things to consider before you all go "Woah, Nepal is so awesome".
- aatishnn 10y ago
  > Rubbish is everywhere, I mean literally it's like living in the middle of a dump site. I think naming places would be a better explanation to this rather than saying everywhere. Yes, littering is a problem here in cities like Kathmandu but many villages are still untouched by this problem. Nepal comprises mostly of villages.
  - ensiferum 10y ago
    I found the small villages are equally dirty and littered considering the size of the populations. Also it seems that most tourists contribute to this problem by behaving like idiots in this regard as well.
- asitdhal 10y ago
  Thailand is a different country I guess. Nepal is a country of mountains and Thailand is definitely not. But, both are 3rd world countries.
  - homarp 10y ago
    According to http://brilliantmaps.com/first-second-third-worlds/ http://brilliantmaps.com/first-second-third-worlds/ while Nepal is 3rd world, Thailand is not.
    - CPLX 10y ago
      That map is nonsense. The first, second, and third world designations have always been political divisions. First world being western, second being communist, and third world being everything else. Even more inexplicable is that they note this fact in the text and then just disregard it. I mean I sort of understand what they are trying to do and I know other people sometimes make this mistake but it just ends up being confusing. Mexico and Thailand aren't second world countries unless you just arbitrarily decide to misrepresent what the phrase means, since the whole point of the damn distinction in the first place was to represent the global battle for supremacy between capitalist modern countries (first world) and communist planned economies (second world). The big issue in the cold war was which of those two worlds would win the battle for the third world countries. So when a former third world country modernizes and becomes more market driven with a more western style economy but you mark it as a second world country, you've literally described the opposite of what actually happened.
      - homarp 10y ago
        so what do you think of http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/third_world.htm http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/third_world.htm ? In the original comment, I'm not sure the usage of 3rd world was in relation to cold war/political division.
  - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
    Thailand is upper middle income like Mexico and china. Nepal is low, like much of Africa, other poorer countries in South Asia. In comparison, India is lower middle income, so richer than Nepal and poorer than Thailand.
- mixmastamyk 10y ago
  It's everything you said and much more: https://vimeo.com/121045965 https://vimeo.com/121045965 There was also a huge earthquake recently, mr. negativity.
  - ensiferum 10y ago
    what you don't see in that video is also the piles of rubbish along those trails. Sad! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2572675/Mountain-rubbish-Climbers-told-pick-8KG-litter-want-scale-Mount-Everest-mess-doesnt-count.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2572675/Mountain-rub...
    - blunte 10y ago
      Maybe this is my hypersensitivity, but whenever I read a little one-liner followed by: Sad!, there's one person I think of. And trust me, that doesn't help me accept what the author of the one-liner said.
      - OJFord 10y ago
        > Maybe this is my hypersensitivity, but whenever I read a little one-liner followed by: Sad!, there's one person I think of. I assume you mean Trump; I don't think that's hypersensitive, I've never heard anybody else punctuate their remarks with their emotion like that.
      - adamjc 10y ago
        Given he linked to the Daily Mail, it probably goes doubly so.
- williswee 10y ago
  thanks for the perspective!
- pjmlp 10y ago
  Thanks for the colonialist attitude! Those countries won't get better if we don't help them.
  - smcl 10y ago
    To be honest your second sentence could be considered a pretty colonialist attitude
    - pjmlp 10y ago
      Not when by helping one understands working together with the people on those counties and provide them the means that they need to fulfill their goals.
      - programmernews3 10y ago
        Are you talking about the white mans burden?
        pjmlp 10y ago
        No idea what you are talking about.
        notmarkus 10y ago
        "The imperialist interpretation of "The White Man's Burden" (1899) proposes that the white man has a moral obligation to rule the non-white peoples of the Earth, whilst encouraging their economic, cultural, and social progress through colonialism. "In the later 20th century, in the context of decolonisation and the Developing World, the phrase "the white man's burden" was emblematic of the "well-intentioned" aspects of Western colonialism and "Eurocentrism". The poem's imperialist interpretation also includes the milder, philanthropic colonialism of the missionaries: "The implication, of course, was that the Empire existed not for the benefit — economic or strategic or otherwise — of Britain, itself, but in order that primitive peoples, incapable of self-government, could, with British guidance, eventually become civilized (and Christianized)." source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man's_Burden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man's_Burden
- pradeepchhetri 10y ago
  Looks like you had a bad experience in Nepal. Sorry for that.
- geomark 10y ago
  I kind of doubt they have anything on Bangkok when it comes to traffic. After all, a recent study showed Thailand has the world's worst traffic congestion. Nepal wasn't in the top 10. [1] [1] http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/1201869/thailand-has-worlds-most-congested-traffic http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/1201869/thailand-has...
- godot 10y ago
  I feel like you shouldn't be downvoted (is that what lighter grey comments mean on HN?). Although this is a rather negative outlook, this actually gives a different perspective that's helpful to people who have no knowledge at all of the area (like myself). I would say I learned something, having this along with the linked article talking about the more positive aspects.
- checker659 10y ago
  I'm from Nepal. I live in Kathmandu. Your comment is spot on.
- linuxkerneldev 10y ago
  > It's also a total dump. Very disorganized 3rd world country. Thailand in contrast is an order of magnitude more developed, especially Bangkok. > before you all go Woah, Nepal is so awesome I am curious what triggered you to write such a negative comment. The article did not give me the impression of a nationalistic rag or a puff-piece trying to hide flaws. Rather, just as the title says, it is about "Remote working in Nepal: What it’s like now in 2017". The author gave useful and balanced descriptions and comparisons as far as I can tell. I've never heard someone intelligent dismiss an entire country as a "total dump", let alone a place that's well known for scenic views like Nepal. Even a novice traveller knows that developing countries have infrastructure issues like trash management and that one's quality of life will not be equivalent to Palo Alto. That said, even our own "premier" cities have spots that are trashy. Heck, it wasn't that long ago that Coyote Creek near San Jose was pretty much a dump. I'm curious what useful data you wanted to contribute to the conversation.
  - ensiferum 10y ago
    Of course it's a subjective definition. I've been to many 3rd world countries and yes usually they all share the similar problems. But the only 2 in really bad ecological shape that come to mind (where also basically no effort is done) are Nepal and Indonesia. Scenic views. Yeah you can enjoy them while standing on a pile of trash. Just keep your eyes peeled to the mountain tops! "That said, even our own "premier" cities have spots that are trashy. " I'm not sure I'd call it a premier city then. "I'm curious what useful data you wanted to contribute to the conversation." I find it kinda lopsided to read an article that only mentions the good things without giving a proper/full picture. Some people might not really understand what it's like in a 3rd world country.
    - linuxkerneldev 10y ago
      > I find it kinda lopsided to read an article that only mentions the good things without giving a proper/full picture. Did we read the same article? Here's some points the author made that seem to contradict your claim. 1st paragraph: "boy oh boy, there have been major changes" That implies change, ie: it was worse before. 2nd paragraph: "There was obviously major corruption going on behind the scenes, which prevented this improvement from happening for so long. " "In bigger cities like Kathmandu and Pokhara, the hotels have always been a bit hit-and-miss" "Visa regulations in Nepal are a little stricter than in Thailand" Having re-read the article, I'm glad the author took the time to present this. > Some people might not really understand what it's like in a 3rd world country. I'm not sure your description of an entire country as a "total dump" is accurate or helpful to people like me who genuinely want to understand what it's like in a 3rd world country. Luckily, there is a broad range of independently captured data on Streetview, even of the Annapurna trail, Kathmandu so folks can evaluate conditions for themselves without bias.
- patrickg_zill 10y ago
  I admit that is surprising, since many of the best Indian restaurants in Denver, Colorado, are run ... by people from Nepal.
csswizardry 10y ago
I had quite an insightful conversation with a Nepalese developer on Twitter recently: https://twitter.com/csswizardry/status/832903820539748352 https://twitter.com/csswizardry/status/832903820539748352
aatishnn 10y ago
> Electricity is now 24 hours This is the best change we experienced as a Nepali citizen. A separate power backup for internet router is no longer needed. > why aren’t more startups bootstrapping in the country? There's this new startup https://www.sevadevelopment.com/ https://www.sevadevelopment.com/ which took this step. They started their office in Lamjung (~108KM from Kathmandu). Monthly costs for rent should be at least half of what it is in Kathmandu. ~10 of my friends did an internship there recently. Akamai and Google have cache edges here. You might have a 128Kbps ADSL line but you get > 1MBps with YouTube and many other sites due to this. Ncell, a telecom here, provides free Twitter and Wikipedia access. It recently started offering Free facebook too. (net neutrality?). Kathmandu is now filled with poles carrying fiber optic cables.
- rshm 10y ago
  Scandal few months back about electricity. http://nepalitimes.com/article/nation/corruption-in-electricity-industry-of-Nepal,3408 http://nepalitimes.com/article/nation/corruption-in-electric... i would look into Ubiquiti as well for network.
molsongolden 10y ago
Great news about the electricity. Haven't been since 2011 but the rolling blackouts were a little rough, even right after the monsoon. I spent some time in a K-12 school and the power would sometimes just randomly go out during the day. Every computer in the school would be cut off and we'd sit around and wait for a couple of minutes while listening for the guard's keys jingling as he ran down the hall to fire up the backup generator. The landscape is beautiful, the history and culture is fantastic, and the people are kind and wonderful. There are definitely areas with trash all over but if you go with an accommodating and open mind then it's all good. Prepare to be in a third world city/country though. Boiling and filtering water is normal. Soaking fruits and vegetables in iodine water is normal. Dodging high pressure salespeople who will chase you around if you look western is normal. Getting overcharged if you don't haggle is normal. Pokhara is a bit of a tourist town but it's definitely an escape from Kathmandu. There's a whole row of western style restaurants and cafes near the lake. You can also find pockets of western comfort if needed while in Kathmandu as there's a large NGO worker population and some accommodations that have been built up to serve "important" visitors.
mustafabisic1 10y ago
Would love to go there one day. Nice arguments :D
guessmyname 10y ago
The Philippines — specially Palawan — is another good destination for remote work. A co-worker lives in Davao and have met people in Manila that do as much (or more) work than me with their Internet speed which is not at US levels but is good enough for what most nomad developers do. Be sure to get a local SIM card and a 4-8GB plan just in case so you can share it with your computer. There is also an advantage of living in this side of the world, most of the time you are the first person in the company to initiate your work day which allows you to focus more on what can be done for the day with the rest of the team. And of course, incident response is much better since the timezone difference allows you to stay awake at times that are considered difficult if you are living in America.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  Why not boracay then? Palawan seems a bit far from everything, getting away would be difficult (transit up through Manila to get anywhere).
royalghost 10y ago
It is great to see the discussion going on regarding working remotely from Nepal. I think Nepal has a great potential of attracting nomad techie from around the world if there is sufficient infrastructure such as electricity, good roads and enough legal provision. It is good that the country is heading to that direction. regarding the rubbish, there are rubbish in any big city in the world. I now live and work in Toronto, and some part of Toronto is worst than Kathmandu. While Kathmandu has many areas which are much cleaner and better than some parts of Toronto. I also bootstrapped my company https://www.techinasia.com/merocampus-online-marketplace-college-admissions https://www.techinasia.com/merocampus-online-marketplace-col... living in Nepal at my parents home.
anticodon 10y ago
What a coincidence! I'm reading this at the Delhi airport waiting for my flight to Kathmandu. Didn't understand the part about visa though: article says that you can live all year in Chiang Mai. Maybe it's true for USA citizens but for everyone else it's 1-2 months only.
- mthoms 10y ago
  People just do "border runs" every two months to renew. Just leave for a couple hours and the 2 month limit resets itself. Having said that, there is still a 6 month (or thereabouts) limit to the total amount of time you can be in Thailand per year.
deerpig 10y ago
A number of posts like this seem to pop up every year. You can divide Western people staying out here into three broad groups, the expats, the NGOs and the tourists. Most expats are out here for decades or forever because there is something wrong with them and they don't fit in to the country they grew up in. Expats range from complete nut cases, to cranky old white racist assholes with too much money and the belief that they can treat everyone like dirt because they have money. Then you get people who are really dysfunctional and should be in more structured environment where they are at least looked after. And here and there you find people who acually make it their home. But most cultures out here don't have the concept of naturalized citizens. You can live here for 50 years and perhaps even have a passport, speak the language fluently and have a successful business but you'll always be gwailo, gaigin, farlang, barrong -- a white guy (and yes, most expats are men). Then you get the NGOs. Expats hate NGOs. NGOs are the true believers, they are here to save the world. When they aren't saving the world they are sitting in the coffee shops that sprang up in areas where NGOs have sent people to save the world. NGOs think they are better than the expats because they "are working with local people" when in fact they see nothing, know nothing and ultimately look down on the people they think they are helping. The secular NGOs look down on the religious groups who set up schools and give english lessons and packets of instant noodles in return for children singing about Jesus. I'm not saying that what they are doing is worthless, teaching basic literacy, and providing food and some medical care is a good thing. But they want people to pay them back in belief. The secular NGOs think they are above that, but NGOs are like Jelly Beans, they might be all different colours on the outside but inside they are the same imported coffee beans that they slurp in the countless coffee shops established to suck what little money they are being paid. Finally there are the tourists. I used to hate most of the tourists, but the most cliche'd tourists are mostly alright. They are clueless and they come and spend their money and will go home with some nice memories and don't make things any worse when they leave. A sub-species of tourist are the backpacker who pray to their holy heavily worn copies of Lonely Planet guidebooks. Expats like Lonely Planet because you can pick up a used copy for free that has been left in a bar -- always look for the multi-country guides, because backpackers never buy the far expensive single country guides -- and if you see a place in your country that is listed there, avoid it like the plague and then you will never have to see another backpacker except at bus stations and airports. Backpackers are very insular -- they only travel together, they only eat and drink at backpacker establishments (locals don't like them because they never tip, seem to think that sitting with their laptop or mobile phone at a restaurant for hours after ording the cheapest thing on the menu is ok). Backpackers often are not only clueless but insultingly clueless. You see these morons in deeply conservative religious capital cities like Vientiene wearing cloths you would wear at a beach in a Western country. I actually had to tell two girls at a Lao border crossing who were getting a bit of the cold shoulder from immigration that if they put on a t-shirt over their string bikini tops and acted a bit more polite, things might go a little faster. Yeah, right. Then you have the newest subspecies of tourist, the digital nomad, who write posts like you just read. There is nothing in that post that indicates that he has been anywhere in Nepal or anywhere that isn't in a Western ghetto in an eastern country. A nomad is a kind of parasite that might kick back a little bit of positive feedback in the way of money to keep their hosts from killing them or brushing them off but suck more than they give back. I encourage people to actually come out and live out here, stay away from the expats, the NGOs and the tourists and especially the digital nomads and learn something. It's difficult, it's traumatic, it can be heart breaking and at the same time open up worlds, wonderful worlds you never new existed. You will be a better person for it, you will be a better programmer or designer or writer or whatever. You will never be able to go back to where you came from and see it the same way again. And then if you are strong enough you can either come back out here and do something to make it better, or go back home and use your new eyes to make where you came from better.
aagat 10y ago
> Mobile internet coverage is awesome. It is actually much better in remote-ish area compared to heart of Kathmandu. > Internet, electricity, and infrastructure is all improving and the costs are still super cheap. The internet situation has improved drastically over the years. In just 3 years I went from crappy 128kbps to 256kbps, 512kbps, 1mbps, 2mbps, 5mbps and 10mbps fiber connection at basically the same monthly fee (less than $20/mo and it includes TV). Things are definitely improving but Kathmandu is still unlivable due to dust. Monsoon can't come soon enough so we can trade it for knee deep mud. :-P
StuartJLans 10y ago
Thanks for the feedback all. I wrote this piece as I have been going to Nepal for the past 7 years and try to get back there every year. Every country has it's problems and I am there mainly to catch up with some dear friends who I will continue to be in touch with for life. I have always had positive experiences in the country so like to share it with others. Of course I don't write about the days I spend on the toilet or sick, who wants to read that stuff. Note I did say in the article though that this was the first trip out of 7 that I didn't get sick!

105 points by williswee 10y ago

Awesome. I was in Nepal in '96 for a study abroad trip and had a wonderful time. Lived for months in Ktm, Pokara, and up along the Kali Gandaki river. Made a flight alongside Everest. Studied anthropology and geography/geology. I remember internet was almost unheard of there at the time. I did find some cafes to send email and little else at the time. I seem to remember UUCP (hehe) being involved but so long ago the details have faded. Had to send my mom a fax because it was the fastest way to communicate when telephone was a couple bucks a minute. ((boggle)) Always wanted to go back, was just the twentieth anniversary and though I couldn't go back last year due to family issues, I'd love to go this summer. This piece has given me the last little piece I needed. Glad to hear the food is better too! Nepali food was always good and healthy, but I have a funny memory of "Maxican" food on the menu. Curried stuff in the shape of a taco (uggh).

ensiferum 10y ago

It's also a total dump. Very disorganized 3rd world country. Thailand in contrast is an order of magnitude more developed, especially Bangkok. The traffic is intense chaos. The streets are very dusty and dirty. Food is semi-ok in the few western style restaurants in Kathmandu otherwise it's just (mostly) rice (hard, not soft fragrant type) and some crappy sauce loaded with MSG. Rubbish is everywhere, I mean literally it's like living in the middle of a dump site. Just a few things to consider before you all go "Woah, Nepal is so awesome".

aatishnn 10y ago
> Rubbish is everywhere, I mean literally it's like living in the middle of a dump site. I think naming places would be a better explanation to this rather than saying everywhere. Yes, littering is a problem here in cities like Kathmandu but many villages are still untouched by this problem. Nepal comprises mostly of villages.
- ensiferum 10y ago
  I found the small villages are equally dirty and littered considering the size of the populations. Also it seems that most tourists contribute to this problem by behaving like idiots in this regard as well.
asitdhal 10y ago
Thailand is a different country I guess. Nepal is a country of mountains and Thailand is definitely not. But, both are 3rd world countries.
- homarp 10y ago
  According to http://brilliantmaps.com/first-second-third-worlds/ http://brilliantmaps.com/first-second-third-worlds/ while Nepal is 3rd world, Thailand is not.
  - CPLX 10y ago
    That map is nonsense. The first, second, and third world designations have always been political divisions. First world being western, second being communist, and third world being everything else. Even more inexplicable is that they note this fact in the text and then just disregard it. I mean I sort of understand what they are trying to do and I know other people sometimes make this mistake but it just ends up being confusing. Mexico and Thailand aren't second world countries unless you just arbitrarily decide to misrepresent what the phrase means, since the whole point of the damn distinction in the first place was to represent the global battle for supremacy between capitalist modern countries (first world) and communist planned economies (second world). The big issue in the cold war was which of those two worlds would win the battle for the third world countries. So when a former third world country modernizes and becomes more market driven with a more western style economy but you mark it as a second world country, you've literally described the opposite of what actually happened.
    - homarp 10y ago
      so what do you think of http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/third_world.htm http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/third_world.htm ? In the original comment, I'm not sure the usage of 3rd world was in relation to cold war/political division.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  Thailand is upper middle income like Mexico and china. Nepal is low, like much of Africa, other poorer countries in South Asia. In comparison, India is lower middle income, so richer than Nepal and poorer than Thailand.
mixmastamyk 10y ago
It's everything you said and much more: https://vimeo.com/121045965 https://vimeo.com/121045965 There was also a huge earthquake recently, mr. negativity.
- ensiferum 10y ago
  what you don't see in that video is also the piles of rubbish along those trails. Sad! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2572675/Mountain-rubbish-Climbers-told-pick-8KG-litter-want-scale-Mount-Everest-mess-doesnt-count.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2572675/Mountain-rub...
  - blunte 10y ago
    Maybe this is my hypersensitivity, but whenever I read a little one-liner followed by: Sad!, there's one person I think of. And trust me, that doesn't help me accept what the author of the one-liner said.
    - OJFord 10y ago
      > Maybe this is my hypersensitivity, but whenever I read a little one-liner followed by: Sad!, there's one person I think of. I assume you mean Trump; I don't think that's hypersensitive, I've never heard anybody else punctuate their remarks with their emotion like that.
    - adamjc 10y ago
      Given he linked to the Daily Mail, it probably goes doubly so.
williswee 10y ago
thanks for the perspective!
pjmlp 10y ago
Thanks for the colonialist attitude! Those countries won't get better if we don't help them.
- smcl 10y ago
  To be honest your second sentence could be considered a pretty colonialist attitude
  - pjmlp 10y ago
    Not when by helping one understands working together with the people on those counties and provide them the means that they need to fulfill their goals.
    - programmernews3 10y ago
      Are you talking about the white mans burden?
      - pjmlp 10y ago
        No idea what you are talking about.
        notmarkus 10y ago
        "The imperialist interpretation of "The White Man's Burden" (1899) proposes that the white man has a moral obligation to rule the non-white peoples of the Earth, whilst encouraging their economic, cultural, and social progress through colonialism. "In the later 20th century, in the context of decolonisation and the Developing World, the phrase "the white man's burden" was emblematic of the "well-intentioned" aspects of Western colonialism and "Eurocentrism". The poem's imperialist interpretation also includes the milder, philanthropic colonialism of the missionaries: "The implication, of course, was that the Empire existed not for the benefit — economic or strategic or otherwise — of Britain, itself, but in order that primitive peoples, incapable of self-government, could, with British guidance, eventually become civilized (and Christianized)." source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man's_Burden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man's_Burden
pradeepchhetri 10y ago
Looks like you had a bad experience in Nepal. Sorry for that.
geomark 10y ago
I kind of doubt they have anything on Bangkok when it comes to traffic. After all, a recent study showed Thailand has the world's worst traffic congestion. Nepal wasn't in the top 10. [1] [1] http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/1201869/thailand-has-worlds-most-congested-traffic http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/1201869/thailand-has...
godot 10y ago
I feel like you shouldn't be downvoted (is that what lighter grey comments mean on HN?). Although this is a rather negative outlook, this actually gives a different perspective that's helpful to people who have no knowledge at all of the area (like myself). I would say I learned something, having this along with the linked article talking about the more positive aspects.
checker659 10y ago
I'm from Nepal. I live in Kathmandu. Your comment is spot on.
linuxkerneldev 10y ago
> It's also a total dump. Very disorganized 3rd world country. Thailand in contrast is an order of magnitude more developed, especially Bangkok. > before you all go Woah, Nepal is so awesome I am curious what triggered you to write such a negative comment. The article did not give me the impression of a nationalistic rag or a puff-piece trying to hide flaws. Rather, just as the title says, it is about "Remote working in Nepal: What it’s like now in 2017". The author gave useful and balanced descriptions and comparisons as far as I can tell. I've never heard someone intelligent dismiss an entire country as a "total dump", let alone a place that's well known for scenic views like Nepal. Even a novice traveller knows that developing countries have infrastructure issues like trash management and that one's quality of life will not be equivalent to Palo Alto. That said, even our own "premier" cities have spots that are trashy. Heck, it wasn't that long ago that Coyote Creek near San Jose was pretty much a dump. I'm curious what useful data you wanted to contribute to the conversation.
- ensiferum 10y ago
  Of course it's a subjective definition. I've been to many 3rd world countries and yes usually they all share the similar problems. But the only 2 in really bad ecological shape that come to mind (where also basically no effort is done) are Nepal and Indonesia. Scenic views. Yeah you can enjoy them while standing on a pile of trash. Just keep your eyes peeled to the mountain tops! "That said, even our own "premier" cities have spots that are trashy. " I'm not sure I'd call it a premier city then. "I'm curious what useful data you wanted to contribute to the conversation." I find it kinda lopsided to read an article that only mentions the good things without giving a proper/full picture. Some people might not really understand what it's like in a 3rd world country.
  - linuxkerneldev 10y ago
    > I find it kinda lopsided to read an article that only mentions the good things without giving a proper/full picture. Did we read the same article? Here's some points the author made that seem to contradict your claim. 1st paragraph: "boy oh boy, there have been major changes" That implies change, ie: it was worse before. 2nd paragraph: "There was obviously major corruption going on behind the scenes, which prevented this improvement from happening for so long. " "In bigger cities like Kathmandu and Pokhara, the hotels have always been a bit hit-and-miss" "Visa regulations in Nepal are a little stricter than in Thailand" Having re-read the article, I'm glad the author took the time to present this. > Some people might not really understand what it's like in a 3rd world country. I'm not sure your description of an entire country as a "total dump" is accurate or helpful to people like me who genuinely want to understand what it's like in a 3rd world country. Luckily, there is a broad range of independently captured data on Streetview, even of the Annapurna trail, Kathmandu so folks can evaluate conditions for themselves without bias.
patrickg_zill 10y ago
I admit that is surprising, since many of the best Indian restaurants in Denver, Colorado, are run ... by people from Nepal.

csswizardry 10y ago

I had quite an insightful conversation with a Nepalese developer on Twitter recently: https://twitter.com/csswizardry/status/832903820539748352 https://twitter.com/csswizardry/status/832903820539748352

aatishnn 10y ago

> Electricity is now 24 hours This is the best change we experienced as a Nepali citizen. A separate power backup for internet router is no longer needed. > why aren’t more startups bootstrapping in the country? There's this new startup https://www.sevadevelopment.com/ https://www.sevadevelopment.com/ which took this step. They started their office in Lamjung (~108KM from Kathmandu). Monthly costs for rent should be at least half of what it is in Kathmandu. ~10 of my friends did an internship there recently. Akamai and Google have cache edges here. You might have a 128Kbps ADSL line but you get > 1MBps with YouTube and many other sites due to this. Ncell, a telecom here, provides free Twitter and Wikipedia access. It recently started offering Free facebook too. (net neutrality?). Kathmandu is now filled with poles carrying fiber optic cables.

rshm 10y ago
Scandal few months back about electricity. http://nepalitimes.com/article/nation/corruption-in-electricity-industry-of-Nepal,3408 http://nepalitimes.com/article/nation/corruption-in-electric... i would look into Ubiquiti as well for network.

molsongolden 10y ago

Great news about the electricity. Haven't been since 2011 but the rolling blackouts were a little rough, even right after the monsoon. I spent some time in a K-12 school and the power would sometimes just randomly go out during the day. Every computer in the school would be cut off and we'd sit around and wait for a couple of minutes while listening for the guard's keys jingling as he ran down the hall to fire up the backup generator. The landscape is beautiful, the history and culture is fantastic, and the people are kind and wonderful. There are definitely areas with trash all over but if you go with an accommodating and open mind then it's all good. Prepare to be in a third world city/country though. Boiling and filtering water is normal. Soaking fruits and vegetables in iodine water is normal. Dodging high pressure salespeople who will chase you around if you look western is normal. Getting overcharged if you don't haggle is normal. Pokhara is a bit of a tourist town but it's definitely an escape from Kathmandu. There's a whole row of western style restaurants and cafes near the lake. You can also find pockets of western comfort if needed while in Kathmandu as there's a large NGO worker population and some accommodations that have been built up to serve "important" visitors.

mustafabisic1 10y ago

Would love to go there one day. Nice arguments :D

guessmyname 10y ago

The Philippines — specially Palawan — is another good destination for remote work. A co-worker lives in Davao and have met people in Manila that do as much (or more) work than me with their Internet speed which is not at US levels but is good enough for what most nomad developers do. Be sure to get a local SIM card and a 4-8GB plan just in case so you can share it with your computer. There is also an advantage of living in this side of the world, most of the time you are the first person in the company to initiate your work day which allows you to focus more on what can be done for the day with the rest of the team. And of course, incident response is much better since the timezone difference allows you to stay awake at times that are considered difficult if you are living in America.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago
Why not boracay then? Palawan seems a bit far from everything, getting away would be difficult (transit up through Manila to get anywhere).

royalghost 10y ago

It is great to see the discussion going on regarding working remotely from Nepal. I think Nepal has a great potential of attracting nomad techie from around the world if there is sufficient infrastructure such as electricity, good roads and enough legal provision. It is good that the country is heading to that direction. regarding the rubbish, there are rubbish in any big city in the world. I now live and work in Toronto, and some part of Toronto is worst than Kathmandu. While Kathmandu has many areas which are much cleaner and better than some parts of Toronto. I also bootstrapped my company https://www.techinasia.com/merocampus-online-marketplace-college-admissions https://www.techinasia.com/merocampus-online-marketplace-col... living in Nepal at my parents home.

anticodon 10y ago

What a coincidence! I'm reading this at the Delhi airport waiting for my flight to Kathmandu. Didn't understand the part about visa though: article says that you can live all year in Chiang Mai. Maybe it's true for USA citizens but for everyone else it's 1-2 months only.

mthoms 10y ago
People just do "border runs" every two months to renew. Just leave for a couple hours and the 2 month limit resets itself. Having said that, there is still a 6 month (or thereabouts) limit to the total amount of time you can be in Thailand per year.

deerpig 10y ago

A number of posts like this seem to pop up every year. You can divide Western people staying out here into three broad groups, the expats, the NGOs and the tourists. Most expats are out here for decades or forever because there is something wrong with them and they don't fit in to the country they grew up in. Expats range from complete nut cases, to cranky old white racist assholes with too much money and the belief that they can treat everyone like dirt because they have money. Then you get people who are really dysfunctional and should be in more structured environment where they are at least looked after. And here and there you find people who acually make it their home. But most cultures out here don't have the concept of naturalized citizens. You can live here for 50 years and perhaps even have a passport, speak the language fluently and have a successful business but you'll always be gwailo, gaigin, farlang, barrong -- a white guy (and yes, most expats are men). Then you get the NGOs. Expats hate NGOs. NGOs are the true believers, they are here to save the world. When they aren't saving the world they are sitting in the coffee shops that sprang up in areas where NGOs have sent people to save the world. NGOs think they are better than the expats because they "are working with local people" when in fact they see nothing, know nothing and ultimately look down on the people they think they are helping. The secular NGOs look down on the religious groups who set up schools and give english lessons and packets of instant noodles in return for children singing about Jesus. I'm not saying that what they are doing is worthless, teaching basic literacy, and providing food and some medical care is a good thing. But they want people to pay them back in belief. The secular NGOs think they are above that, but NGOs are like Jelly Beans, they might be all different colours on the outside but inside they are the same imported coffee beans that they slurp in the countless coffee shops established to suck what little money they are being paid. Finally there are the tourists. I used to hate most of the tourists, but the most cliche'd tourists are mostly alright. They are clueless and they come and spend their money and will go home with some nice memories and don't make things any worse when they leave. A sub-species of tourist are the backpacker who pray to their holy heavily worn copies of Lonely Planet guidebooks. Expats like Lonely Planet because you can pick up a used copy for free that has been left in a bar -- always look for the multi-country guides, because backpackers never buy the far expensive single country guides -- and if you see a place in your country that is listed there, avoid it like the plague and then you will never have to see another backpacker except at bus stations and airports. Backpackers are very insular -- they only travel together, they only eat and drink at backpacker establishments (locals don't like them because they never tip, seem to think that sitting with their laptop or mobile phone at a restaurant for hours after ording the cheapest thing on the menu is ok). Backpackers often are not only clueless but insultingly clueless. You see these morons in deeply conservative religious capital cities like Vientiene wearing cloths you would wear at a beach in a Western country. I actually had to tell two girls at a Lao border crossing who were getting a bit of the cold shoulder from immigration that if they put on a t-shirt over their string bikini tops and acted a bit more polite, things might go a little faster. Yeah, right. Then you have the newest subspecies of tourist, the digital nomad, who write posts like you just read. There is nothing in that post that indicates that he has been anywhere in Nepal or anywhere that isn't in a Western ghetto in an eastern country. A nomad is a kind of parasite that might kick back a little bit of positive feedback in the way of money to keep their hosts from killing them or brushing them off but suck more than they give back. I encourage people to actually come out and live out here, stay away from the expats, the NGOs and the tourists and especially the digital nomads and learn something. It's difficult, it's traumatic, it can be heart breaking and at the same time open up worlds, wonderful worlds you never new existed. You will be a better person for it, you will be a better programmer or designer or writer or whatever. You will never be able to go back to where you came from and see it the same way again. And then if you are strong enough you can either come back out here and do something to make it better, or go back home and use your new eyes to make where you came from better.

aagat 10y ago

> Mobile internet coverage is awesome. It is actually much better in remote-ish area compared to heart of Kathmandu. > Internet, electricity, and infrastructure is all improving and the costs are still super cheap. The internet situation has improved drastically over the years. In just 3 years I went from crappy 128kbps to 256kbps, 512kbps, 1mbps, 2mbps, 5mbps and 10mbps fiber connection at basically the same monthly fee (less than $20/mo and it includes TV). Things are definitely improving but Kathmandu is still unlivable due to dust. Monsoon can't come soon enough so we can trade it for knee deep mud. :-P

StuartJLans 10y ago

Thanks for the feedback all. I wrote this piece as I have been going to Nepal for the past 7 years and try to get back there every year. Every country has it's problems and I am there mainly to catch up with some dear friends who I will continue to be in touch with for life. I have always had positive experiences in the country so like to share it with others. Of course I don't write about the days I spend on the toilet or sick, who wants to read that stuff. Note I did say in the article though that this was the first trip out of 7 that I didn't get sick!