5 ms·

There is no reason to believe that Linux, and other possibly OSs, won't all grow during this time. As long no one is monopolistic and anti-competitive there is

by sqeaky 10y ago

There is no reason to believe that Linux, and other possibly OSs, won't all grow during this time. As long no one is monopolistic and anti-competitive there is a ton of room for competition in this space. The network effect, the winner takes all effect, is becoming less pronounced as there are more ways to build cross platform software.

IshKebab 10y ago
There is reason to believe that. Linux hasn't fundamentally changed in .. well has it ever? The driver model still sucks (I guess this is probably the main reason Google is moving away from it), the security is still embarrassing, the graphics story is very much stuck in the 90s (does display hot-plugging work yet? what about secure password entry?). It started as a Unix clone and it's still a Unix clone. What makes you think that will change? I think the time is ripe for a new OS. Especially given that Google's OSes don't expose much of the OS to apps - it should make it quite easy to port their userspaces over.
- sqeaky 10y ago
  I think that many of you complaints are without merit. For fundamental there have been several schedulers, the removal of the "Big Kernel Lock" and many other changes. For monitoring hotplugging, yes it works. I did it several times today. I have 3 laptops with 3 different GPUs and it works on all of them.
  - IshKebab 10y ago
    And security? http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2017/q1/471 http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2017/q1/471
- kev009 10y ago
  It's funny to see a downvote brigade on anything calling into question Linux's supremacy. The overwhelmingly devops HN crowd is probably the worst group to poll on systems software advancement.
  - PublicFace 10y ago
    Why do downvote brigades even EXIST on this website? I feel like this upvote downvote garbage is an echo chamber in the making. Just sort comments by replies or randomly, or not at all. Or just have a "garbage post" flag and call it a day. Anything is better than this pseudo-democracy thing that Reddit has shown to be useless for real discussion time and again.
    - smitherfield 10y ago
      Agreed (and upvoted). I think HN has a generally high quality of discussions (except on certain political or fanboyism-related topics where only one side of the debate is tolerated). But, the best discussions on sites I frequent are on blogs that simply sort comments by time and thread, and where the host encourages open and intelligent discussion. Scott Alexander's (https://slatestarcodex.com https://slatestarcodex.com) is a good example. The flipside is that "report" buttons can become surrogate downvote buttons, and the lopsided volume of reports leads to inconsistent enforcement of rules, so commenters unpopular with the crowd or mods are more and more likely to be banned, while discussion devolves to groupthink, cliquishness and sycophancy towards the locally-powerful. IME BBSes are the most prone to fall victim to this; the communities are small enough that you can't be "anonymous," and with threads that can continue and be bumped to the top indefinitely, there's no mechanism besides moderator intervention to stop a flame war. Blogs and HN/Reddit-style aggregators do better because old threads are quickly buried.
coldtea 10y ago
>There is no reason to believe that Linux, and other possibly OSs, won't all grow during this time. As long no one is monopolistic and anti-competitive there is a ton of room for competition in this space. Well, grow enough to counter-balance the sudden loss of billions of Android devices? I don't think there's reason to believe that. It had stalled for ages on the desktop, and mostly got to devices outside the embedded space through Android. (Of course Android-Linux devices will continue to exist -- but eventually those with the new Google kernel/OS underneath will overtake them, especially if Google insists on OEMs using it to get access to the various Google apps). >The network effect, the winner takes all effect, is becoming less pronounced as there are more ways to build cross platform software. It's not about having some cross platform software though, it's about the whole ecosystem. Which is e.g. one of the reasons why Firefox OS, et al never got anywhere.
- sqeaky 10y ago
  The ecosystem is important. What do you think about systems that make it easy to ship software for multiple platforms? Consider Unity, the game making tools. When shipping there is pretty much a series of checkboxes for what kinds of packages you want to make. Unless you went out of your way to use some OS specific stuff it will work everywhere. There are other tools like this for other non-gaming domains, do they contribute in your view of OS ecosystems?

by sqeaky 10y ago

IshKebab 10y ago

There is reason to believe that. Linux hasn't fundamentally changed in .. well has it ever? The driver model still sucks (I guess this is probably the main reason Google is moving away from it), the security is still embarrassing, the graphics story is very much stuck in the 90s (does display hot-plugging work yet? what about secure password entry?). It started as a Unix clone and it's still a Unix clone. What makes you think that will change? I think the time is ripe for a new OS. Especially given that Google's OSes don't expose much of the OS to apps - it should make it quite easy to port their userspaces over.

sqeaky 10y ago
I think that many of you complaints are without merit. For fundamental there have been several schedulers, the removal of the "Big Kernel Lock" and many other changes. For monitoring hotplugging, yes it works. I did it several times today. I have 3 laptops with 3 different GPUs and it works on all of them.
- IshKebab 10y ago
  And security? http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2017/q1/471 http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2017/q1/471
kev009 10y ago
It's funny to see a downvote brigade on anything calling into question Linux's supremacy. The overwhelmingly devops HN crowd is probably the worst group to poll on systems software advancement.
- PublicFace 10y ago
  Why do downvote brigades even EXIST on this website? I feel like this upvote downvote garbage is an echo chamber in the making. Just sort comments by replies or randomly, or not at all. Or just have a "garbage post" flag and call it a day. Anything is better than this pseudo-democracy thing that Reddit has shown to be useless for real discussion time and again.
  - smitherfield 10y ago
    Agreed (and upvoted). I think HN has a generally high quality of discussions (except on certain political or fanboyism-related topics where only one side of the debate is tolerated). But, the best discussions on sites I frequent are on blogs that simply sort comments by time and thread, and where the host encourages open and intelligent discussion. Scott Alexander's (https://slatestarcodex.com https://slatestarcodex.com) is a good example. The flipside is that "report" buttons can become surrogate downvote buttons, and the lopsided volume of reports leads to inconsistent enforcement of rules, so commenters unpopular with the crowd or mods are more and more likely to be banned, while discussion devolves to groupthink, cliquishness and sycophancy towards the locally-powerful. IME BBSes are the most prone to fall victim to this; the communities are small enough that you can't be "anonymous," and with threads that can continue and be bumped to the top indefinitely, there's no mechanism besides moderator intervention to stop a flame war. Blogs and HN/Reddit-style aggregators do better because old threads are quickly buried.

coldtea 10y ago

>There is no reason to believe that Linux, and other possibly OSs, won't all grow during this time. As long no one is monopolistic and anti-competitive there is a ton of room for competition in this space. Well, grow enough to counter-balance the sudden loss of billions of Android devices? I don't think there's reason to believe that. It had stalled for ages on the desktop, and mostly got to devices outside the embedded space through Android. (Of course Android-Linux devices will continue to exist -- but eventually those with the new Google kernel/OS underneath will overtake them, especially if Google insists on OEMs using it to get access to the various Google apps). >The network effect, the winner takes all effect, is becoming less pronounced as there are more ways to build cross platform software. It's not about having some cross platform software though, it's about the whole ecosystem. Which is e.g. one of the reasons why Firefox OS, et al never got anywhere.

sqeaky 10y ago
The ecosystem is important. What do you think about systems that make it easy to ship software for multiple platforms? Consider Unity, the game making tools. When shipping there is pretty much a series of checkboxes for what kinds of packages you want to make. Unless you went out of your way to use some OS specific stuff it will work everywhere. There are other tools like this for other non-gaming domains, do they contribute in your view of OS ecosystems?