4 ms·

And in theory it should totally be worth it as a candidate unless they are coasting on reputation. Otherwise the supply of candidates would dry up. In practice

And in theory it should totally be worth it as a candidate unless they are coasting on reputation. Otherwise the supply of candidates would dry up. In practice it wasn't for me, but I refused to tell them how much I made just to see what would happen. If you interview at Google and they ask how much you make you should probably tell them or you might get a weak non-negotiable offer. Unless what you make is already far less than their "standard offer." It would be a shame to waste all that effort by sticking to negotiation techniques that maybe don't work on Google for regular candidates.

beachstartup 10y ago
refusing to tell your prospective employer how much you want to get paid is a 'negotiation tactic'?
- gcp 10y ago
  I thought it was pretty well understood that you should never name a number, and if you're forced to, you should say 5 times the number you had in mind.
  - beachstartup 10y ago
    that's absurd. you should name the price you expect, and not go below your minimum. would you hire a plumber that refuses to name his rate, and then when pushed, tells you a number 5 times higher than normal? why do you think any other employment negotiation is any different? if you "never name a number", the person on the other end is going to know you're inexperienced and operating on cargo cult mythology, and will simply take advantage of you.
    - Apocryphon 10y ago
      The 5 times part is surely a joke, but not naming a number is like HN-promulgated salary negotiation 101 http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ https://www.twilio.com/blog/2016/02/patrick-mckenzie-on-salary-negotiation-job-hunting.html https://www.twilio.com/blog/2016/02/patrick-mckenzie-on-sala... Definitely would be good if someone wrote a counter-response to this prevailing meme
    - twic 10y ago
      If you have a good idea of the price you expect, based on a clear understanding of what you can command, then this is an excellent idea. The standard "don't name a number" advice is based on the assumption that most candidates don't have that. They know what they earn right now, but they don't know what they could be earning. In that situation, you want to sweat some information out of the recruiter by getting them to name the number. There are other ways you can get a bit of edge. In a previous round of job hunting, i let a recruiter persuade me to apply at Amazon, even though i was 85% sure i didn't want to work there. They made me an offer substantially higher than my salary at the time, because they're desperate to hire, because nobody wants to work there, because they're a shitshow. I could then take that offer to the other companies i applied to, where i actually did want to work, as a starting point in salary discussions. In my most recent round, one recruiter said to me "Company X want to know how much you currently earn, because they can't offer above 130k for this position and they don't want to waste their time if you're on more than that". 130k may not sound like a lot to you over in the Valley, but it was getting on for twice what i was making at the time here in London. "Well,", i said in the most noncommital voice i could manage, "130k would probably be okay".
      - astrange 10y ago
        What currency is the 130k in? If they made you move here to SV, it may not be a raise.
        twic 10y ago
        Pounds. It involved moving just over a mile from my old job.
- inimino 10y ago
  "how much you make" i.e. disclosing current or previous salary, not how much you want to make.
  - kefka 10y ago
    Yeah, I engaged a recruiter who seemed pretty decent at the onset. Then when I expressed interest in 2 positions, they demanded that I provide detailed salary for the last 3 jobs I have worked in. I gave express disinterest in doing that, and had no issue with providing salary expectations. But I made it clear that this behavior was completely unprofessional and unbefitting of a recruiter. I then told them in no uncertain terms that as long as they have this policy on their books, do not call back. If however, they change this, I would consider them again.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
digler999 10y ago
why not just lie to them and tell them you make 20-30% more than you really do ?
- arielweisberg 10y ago
  Habit mostly I guess. I always implicitly assume lying has the risk of getting caught and then becoming known as liar. I don't evaluate on a case by case basis whether I should lie. Also the experience of being caught lying is emotionally and mentally draining for me so I stopped way way back. Like in childhood. I wouldn't say I'm completely fib free, but if you are even remotely entitled to the truth your going to get it. If I get caught lying I have to be OK with it and not care. That is a high bar.
  - cmdrfred 10y ago
    >but if you are even remotely entitled to the truth your going to get it This is a negotiation, they aren't entitled to know how much you make nor do they have a good method of checking up on it.

beachstartup 10y ago

refusing to tell your prospective employer how much you want to get paid is a 'negotiation tactic'?

gcp 10y ago
I thought it was pretty well understood that you should never name a number, and if you're forced to, you should say 5 times the number you had in mind.
- beachstartup 10y ago
  that's absurd. you should name the price you expect, and not go below your minimum. would you hire a plumber that refuses to name his rate, and then when pushed, tells you a number 5 times higher than normal? why do you think any other employment negotiation is any different? if you "never name a number", the person on the other end is going to know you're inexperienced and operating on cargo cult mythology, and will simply take advantage of you.
  - Apocryphon 10y ago
    The 5 times part is surely a joke, but not naming a number is like HN-promulgated salary negotiation 101 http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ https://www.twilio.com/blog/2016/02/patrick-mckenzie-on-salary-negotiation-job-hunting.html https://www.twilio.com/blog/2016/02/patrick-mckenzie-on-sala... Definitely would be good if someone wrote a counter-response to this prevailing meme
  - twic 10y ago
    If you have a good idea of the price you expect, based on a clear understanding of what you can command, then this is an excellent idea. The standard "don't name a number" advice is based on the assumption that most candidates don't have that. They know what they earn right now, but they don't know what they could be earning. In that situation, you want to sweat some information out of the recruiter by getting them to name the number. There are other ways you can get a bit of edge. In a previous round of job hunting, i let a recruiter persuade me to apply at Amazon, even though i was 85% sure i didn't want to work there. They made me an offer substantially higher than my salary at the time, because they're desperate to hire, because nobody wants to work there, because they're a shitshow. I could then take that offer to the other companies i applied to, where i actually did want to work, as a starting point in salary discussions. In my most recent round, one recruiter said to me "Company X want to know how much you currently earn, because they can't offer above 130k for this position and they don't want to waste their time if you're on more than that". 130k may not sound like a lot to you over in the Valley, but it was getting on for twice what i was making at the time here in London. "Well,", i said in the most noncommital voice i could manage, "130k would probably be okay".
    - astrange 10y ago
      What currency is the 130k in? If they made you move here to SV, it may not be a raise.
      - twic 10y ago
        Pounds. It involved moving just over a mile from my old job.
inimino 10y ago
"how much you make" i.e. disclosing current or previous salary, not how much you want to make.
- kefka 10y ago
  Yeah, I engaged a recruiter who seemed pretty decent at the onset. Then when I expressed interest in 2 positions, they demanded that I provide detailed salary for the last 3 jobs I have worked in. I gave express disinterest in doing that, and had no issue with providing salary expectations. But I made it clear that this behavior was completely unprofessional and unbefitting of a recruiter. I then told them in no uncertain terms that as long as they have this policy on their books, do not call back. If however, they change this, I would consider them again.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

digler999 10y ago

why not just lie to them and tell them you make 20-30% more than you really do ?

arielweisberg 10y ago
Habit mostly I guess. I always implicitly assume lying has the risk of getting caught and then becoming known as liar. I don't evaluate on a case by case basis whether I should lie. Also the experience of being caught lying is emotionally and mentally draining for me so I stopped way way back. Like in childhood. I wouldn't say I'm completely fib free, but if you are even remotely entitled to the truth your going to get it. If I get caught lying I have to be OK with it and not care. That is a high bar.
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  >but if you are even remotely entitled to the truth your going to get it This is a negotiation, they aren't entitled to know how much you make nor do they have a good method of checking up on it.