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Deleting Uber is the least you can do
- fnasijq 10y agoCtrl+F, Trump, lots of mentions, Ctrl+W
- potatosoup 10y agoWhile Uber (probably) had it coming, it's still annoying that the Internet as of late has turned into scores of "famous person writes a long virtuous post proclaiming how some other famous person is less virtuous." I want my Internet back. (Stopped using Uber after they changed iOS app location tracking choices to only "Always" or "Never," instead of original "While using the app")
- burkaman 10y agoWhat happened to your internet? It's a very big place, can't you just not read this type of article? They aren't very hard to avoid.
- brown9-2 10y ago"your" Internet?
- rdgthree 10y agoI feel the same way - not because either side is necessarily wrong, but because these kind of articles are grossly simplified. Uber is not pure evil, or pure good. Even the #DeleteUber hashtag originated from a misunderstanding: https://www.axios.com/uber-didnt-deserve-deleteuber-2225893201.html https://www.axios.com/uber-didnt-deserve-deleteuber-22258932... Certainly the article about sexism in the workplace is deeply concerning, but that doesn't suddenly mean Uber is a force for pure evil in the world and has done no good for anyone. It means, like many organizations (especially ones that are growing aggressively), they have serious internal problems. Travis immediately responded to the article, and I have no doubt that he is against rampant sexism occurring in the company. What would be the motivation for him to allow it to continue happening?
- feedjoelpie 10y agoTo characterize #DeleteUber as a misunderstanding is a quasi-straw man argument. The author of that article picked the most vulnerable argument in favor of deleting Uber and focused on that to the exclusion of myriad others. Personally, I believe that Uber would have loved to get in on the strike. But Uber's premise, which is anti-organized labor, does not allow for this. So they tried glom onto the protest in a ham-fisted way that only highlighted the problem. Uber can't be part of a positive social protest that is driven by workers uniting and standing up because Uber is too invested in dividing them and pushing them down. As for what would be the motivation for him to allow it to continue happening... Now that it's been publicized? Nothing. At the time the incidents happened? Read Susan's article again. There were numerous opportunities to address the problem, and leadership instead chose to protect problematic employees that they otherwise considered high performers. The motivation couldn't be more clear.
- sjs382 10y ago> Uber is not pure evil, or pure good. Agreed. I'm going to go with "sociopathic" and "reckless". > I have no doubt that he is against rampant sexism occurring in the company. What would be the motivation for him to allow it to continue happening? To keep badly-behaving, toxic people who are otherwise "high performers" (politically or otherwise) with the company.
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- nojvek 10y agoI call it apple's fault. Why is it even a way to remove "while using the app" from the fucking option list. A lot of apps abuse that functionality.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- jondwillis 10y ago>I don’t think it’s a coincidence that both Peter Thiel and Uber CEO Travis Kalanick have been chummy and beyond with Trump. Travis has been chummy and beyond with Trump? What's beyond?
- dllthomas 10y agoIn Travis's case, what's "chummy" in the first place? Agreeing to serve on a forum and stepping down before it ever met?
- aioprisan 10y agoYou mean he was forced to step down by the pressure users put on him http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/03/schwarzman-uber-ceo-forced-to-quit-trump-council.html http://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/03/schwarzman-uber-ceo-forced-to...
- dllthomas 10y agoYes. The piece I wanted to clarify was that it occurred before any meeting.
- brown9-2 10y agoIn Travis's case, what's "chummy" in the first place? Agreeing to serve on a forum That's exactly it.
- dllthomas 10y agoMaybe that's "chummy", maybe it's just overly optimistic. It's obviously not the same world as Thiel, who overtly supported Trump since the primaries, gave the keynote at the RNC, and contributed a bunch of money to the campaign. Lumping the two together is disingenuous and absurd.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- sapphire_tomb 10y agoI'm 50/50 on this. I _am_ offended by the shady practises coming out around Uber, and would like to vote with my feet as it were - but in London UK, Uber has no real alternative. Lyft doesn't operate at all outside the US as far as I can tell - and I'm unaware of any other taxi firms which operate the same model here. So I'm left with using offical "Black Taxis", which don't have one central app to get hold of them (I think there are four different ones last time I checked), and the darlings of silicon roundabout will point out they cost a lot more than an Uber does for the same journey.
- JelteF 10y agoThe same is true for Amsterdam
- Rafert 10y agoWell, there's UGo and a bunch of other apps/online services for taxis. The problem with all of them is that they're local and there are less drivers on it. For example in Montreal I wanted to try Téo (they use electric cars) but after five minutes of waiting for an available rider I gave up and ordered an Uber instead.
- qznc 10y agoAmsterdam seems to be covered by http://www.taxi.eu http://www.taxi.eu ?
- CaptainZapp 10y agoWhy exactly do you need Uber in the city with arguably the best bike infrastructure in the world and no hills, whatsoever? Oh, bad weather? As far I recall Amsterdam has absolute stellar public transportation and if that doesn't cut it an occasional taxi ride is probably a valid option. Oh, there's no app (which I doubt)? What about, like in the old times, just give the dispatcher a ring? To each his own and you're responsible for maintaining your moral compass. I for one never used and never, ever will use Uber. No matter what. This company is morally so reprehensible that I could never justify throwing any money on them.
- param 10y agoI skimmed through the article fast, so here is what I gleaned: 1. Donald Trump is bad, Thiel is bad for supporting him. 2. There are problems at Uber 3. ... ? 4. Lets punish ALL shareholders, and YOURSELF, by not using the service. 5. ... ? If some law has been broken, I would prefer that the guilty person(s) be held accountable. I am not sure why I have to pay more for taxis at this time
- vwcx 10y agoWhy do the shareholders deserve to be immune from the company's reputation, however fairly or unfairly this reputation is earned?
- param 10y agoBecause that's what shares represent. I 'give you money' to try to add wealth to the economy. If you do anything illegal, you burn. Not me. Economics and law 101 Edit - just want to clarify - if the company execs do something ILLEGAL, they should go to jail. Shareholders WILL get punished beause shares will get a hit. But how is it fair to start punishing the company overall with consumer activism just because there are allegations of misconduct?
- vertex-four 10y agoIf shareholders were held accountable in a much more direct way, perhaps they would spend more effort ensuring that the companies they invest in didn't break the law?
- param 10y agoI agree with you. But that's not the world we live in today.
- vertex-four 10y agoIt could be. Consumer action affects the company which affects shareholders, so when there's consumer action over what are at the very least unethical practices, shareholders are affected. Both the company and the shareholders get punished - the company for what it's done, and the shareholders for funding the company without a care for its practices.
- daxfohl 10y agoSo what's the most you can do?
- nunez 10y agoCorrection: I read Susan's blog post about her year at Uber here: https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-one-very-strange-year-at-uber https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflecting-on-on.... It turns out that this consultant can survive without Uber. I deleted it and deleted my account as well. Leaving my original post up for accountability. --- Uber is kind of like Windows: they are #1 in their markets, so they are many people's #1 target. It bothers me more that we haven't heard more about the goings-on at Lyft. Compared to all of the attraction that Uber's gotten, Lyft is squeaky clean. That can't be right. From a practicality standpoint, there's no way I can delete Uber. I travel every week and use ridesharing services often. There are several times in which Uber is the only service that has cars on the road or the difference in wait time is pretty stark. When it's 12AM and you need to be up at 7AM that morning, every minute counts.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- burkaman 10y agoLyft has the same legal and regulatory issues as Uber, they just don't seem to have as many sleazy people. Most companies are not ever in the news for employing terrible people, so I don't think it's that hard to believe. Honestly the worst thing I've seen from Lyft is this blog post[0], in which they celebrate someone, driving at 9 months pregnant, who decided to pick up another passenger when she went into labor instead of going straight to the hospital. [0]: https://blog.lyft.com/posts/2016/9/6/chicago-special-delivery https://blog.lyft.com/posts/2016/9/6/chicago-special-deliver...
- oceanswave 10y agoI'm glad someone realizes what unbounded capitalism looks like. Whether we must somehow punish Uber for doing exactly what their investors and shareholders want, but yet neglect those exact companies that uber competes against, is a rabbit hole stance to take
- sp332 10y agoAre you just giving up on improving working conditions in the industry then?
- holydude 10y agoSurprise, surprise. Most of the big companies are evil. You can either go full stallman style or be very reasonable about buying/using services from these companies.
- hyperbovine 10y agoFalse equivalence. Most big companies do not have the sort of culture I read about in that Fowler piece.
- onion2k 10y agoUnless the perception of the culture at Uber changes dramatically I strongly suspect Uber managers (and possibly engineers) are going to find having Uber on your resume is a strong negative indicator when they leave to find new roles. It's not fair to suggest everyone there is part of this culture we're reading about but organisations are frequently cautious and hiring someone who is part of it, and believes what goes on at Uber is normal and acceptable, could be quite damaging for any hiring manager. That means they won't even give you an interview. Everyone at Uber really needs to be fighting this reputation hard.
- sjtgraham 10y ago> I strongly suspect Uber managers (and possibly engineers) are going to find having Uber on your resume is a strong negative indicator when they leave to find new roles. Many people at Uber never need work again.
- Balgair 10y agoIF the IPO is successful and the stock's 'hand-cuffs' for employees are taken off in a reasonable time frame. Those are some pretty big qualifications to become retirement level wealthy for 'many' of the employees.
- onion2k 10y agoIn theory, but in practise they have to keep working, and it has to be at Uber because they can't afford to leave. https://techcrunch.com/2016/04/29/handcuffed-to-uber/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/04/29/handcuffed-to-uber/
- ryanbrunner 10y agoNo one at Uber is in a position where they are unable to leave and find additional work. They may have to give up their lottery ticket, but the handcuffs in question don't exist if employees choose not to exercise their options.
- raziel2p 10y ago
- chinathrow 10y agoDeleting Uber or just never ever sign up.
- jlebrech 10y agoUber is the solution to taxi drivers using dirty tricks (i.e taking the long way, turning the meter off), but also comes with it's own dirty tricks (surge pricing).
- lotsofpulp 10y agoI don't understand how charging market price is a "dirty trick". When the demand curve shifts, the price must also shift to meet the supply curve, otherwise you will create a condition where there is not enough supply. This concept applies to any perishable good, including seafood, hotel room nights, flights, concert/show prices...otherwise how should the limited resource be distributed? And how can production of the resource be stimulated if the prices don't shift to meet the supply curve?
- havetocharge 10y agoSometimes what they charge you is not "market price" though. On my last trip my Uber driver took me via a huge curve and the charge ended up being ~ 40 dollars more than the projected value. I've filled out a form explaining the situation and most of the 40 dollars were immediately deducted from the fare on submission. I don't know whether the driver made a mistake or took me on a "trip" deliberately, but if I was in a normal taxi, I would either have to pay, or fight with the driver. Not defending the company culture, but the app does protect the consumer from some level of undesirable taxi driver behaviour.
- waffle_ss 10y agoI've never used Uber before, but I have taken ECON101 and if I understand it right, it makes sense to me. Keeping the price fixed below the supply/demand equilibrium point (a price ceiling) creates a shortage. By increasing the ride price, they incentivize more Uber drivers to come online (supply ramps up) and encourage riders who have the means to take other modes of travel or those don't urgently need a ride to skip it.
- jlebrech 10y agothey can increase the price to provide more coverage too, it's a smart system.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- dllthomas 10y agoIt seems worth noting that "Trump surrogate" Peter Thiel (who somehow damns Uber by association) is not only not involved in Uber, but is a major investor in Lyft (as is Carl Icahn).
- curiousess 10y agoIf you were outraged by Trumps "locker room talk," I don't see how you can stand by an entire company culture dedicated to protecting serial harassers and silencing their victims. Gross, this company is just gross.
- vinceguidry 10y agoIs outrage really a viable option any more for driving policy change? Seems like the last election proved that all you're doing is pissing away organizational energy.
- feedjoelpie 10y agoI don't see how you could look at what happened and how it was systematically brushed under the rug, then at what has happened since the article was published, and come to the conclusion that anything BUT outrage would drive a change at this company.
- d--b 10y agoI'm usually not a big fan of DHH (talking about silicon valley hubris?), but this is a good read.
- Beltiras 10y agoI did it this morning. A service rep sent me an email later to confirm I was marked for deletion. I wonder if they have a human read through all of them.
- lhnz 10y agoI can only assume that the creation and sharing of this article is meant as a political act, since there is no way that this will move the growth needle. If you want to change Uber's culture for the better, you need to persuade those that work within it and have klout to use it. In order to do this, first you'll need to believe that there are good, kind-hearted people that work there and that aren't happy with what happened. Telling a small number of people to 'delete the app' or pointing the finger at everybody that works there isn't going to do any good.
- canuckintime 10y agoWhat are the alternatives to Uber in Canada? Even a basic feature set (request a taxi with calling a number/hailing on the street) would be worth considering in these circumstances
- sergiotapia 10y agoDHH just couldn't help himself and had to mention President Trump. Yawn.
- allanmacgregor 10y agoDHH couldn't help himself and had to virtue signal; there is not enough information out yet, and everyone is calling for Uber's figurative head to roll.
- kevando 10y agoI feel like there is a "sacrifice for the greater good" mentality growing. Think about how many civilians the US govt killed in the middle east just so we could have decently priced oil. I think that mentality is bleeding into other areas, like Uber. The thinking goes: "We are the only ones working to solve transportation in ten years, so its okay if we are sexist today."
- subpixel 10y agoI know I'm in the minority but I actually never installed Uber because everything I read about the company's tactics and leadership disturbed me, from day one.
- danr4 10y agoI really dislike posts like these. The truth is that Uber makes the lives of millions of people better and that's why it's valued at $66B. There are far worse companies doing far worse things helping fewer people. I mean, what is the end cause? shutting down uber? teaching it a lesson? will it really help reduce sexual harassment in the workplace? or are you treating the symptom instead of the disease? This is just a rant against the so-called "Silicon Valley culture".
- mateus1 10y agoSo I should support companies that actively endorse sexual harassment cause there are "worse ones out there"? Also, saying market cap is a metric of "doing good" is a ridiculous proposal. The end cause is drawing a line.
- pluma 10y agoIf this is what it takes to convince you not to use Uber, don't bother deleting Uber.
- pluma 10y agoAs I'm being downvoted, I'll elaborate: You shouldn't delete Uber because DHH tells you so. You should delete Uber because you find their practices immoral. Over the years there have been enough articles about Uber that could justify calling them immoral and deciding to boycott their service. You don't have to wait for a "celebrity" to tell you what to do. On the other hand, if you are only convinced because DHH says it, you might not actually believe that they're bad and just join the protest to feel morally justified outrage and show off your virtuousness -- in which case it is probably dishonest to do so. In other words you shouldn't join a protest because someone people talk about using their initials does it, or because your peers think everyone should do it. You should protest because you think something is worth protesting. Personally I totally agree with DHH that Uber is worth protesting, but I agree because I've observed Uber's behaviour over the past years and come to that conclusion myself. If you haven't you should read into it and determine whether you agree or not. And if you disagree, you should think about why that is, too. If you want to be think of person that agrees with these things but don't, that should be a cause for personal reflection. Simply joining the bandwagon doesn't help with that, even if it helps the protest.
- monochromatic 10y agoFor writing an article that's ostensibly about Uber, DHH sure does seem to be hung up on Donald Trump.
- alphabettsy 10y agoSeems to be people are finally realizing Uber isn't much different from some of America's other large businesses that seem to have little regard for ethics.
- temp-dude-87844 10y agoWhy would I delete Uber? They're using VC money to subside transportation for thousands; money is literally leaving their pocket and going into those of part-time drivers who ferry my and others' butt around the wastelands of America's suburbia. Their managerial track record is well documented, they've ignored laws from the beginning hoping to wait until the tides of regulation shift into their favor, helped by lots of time spent lobbying and intimidating. They have shown that no holds will be barred to spread the wings of Uber far and wide so they can ruthlessly crush local taxis and any less-funded competition. But at the end of the day, Uber isn't someone you vote for with your wallet, it's someone who gives you more service than the money you put in. We already knew before the harrassment allegations that the management may be full of skeezy types, but Uber is one of those rare ventures where punishing the company legitimately doesn't punish the company at all, but rather solely its employees, drivers, and riders. So turn your outrage into something productive, not knee-jerk reactive. For example, donate to some organization that stands up for the rights of harrassed employees. Ponder about whether this is something that could happen to you, or if you'd be capable of this abhorrent behavior. Start a conversation. Think really hard about whether you'll use your influence and social pull to sway people around you or on the internet, and the message you send. Comparing your movement to #DeleteUber perhaps isn't such a good idea, given the whole damn thing was most likely an embarrassing misunderstanding that was vilified by people assuming the worst. Are you sending a reasoned, if impassioned message, or just riling a mob?
- awqrre 10y ago> Uber is one of those rare ventures where punishing the company legitimately doesn't punish the company at all, but rather solely its employees, drivers, and riders Boycotting companies that employ people directly or indirectly probably does punish these employees... but either way, it does punish the company. What is Uber with 0 users? nothing... Maybe Uber's goal is to raise prices once they killed all competition.
- anonu 10y ago> money is literally leaving their pocket and going into those of part-time drivers who ferry my and others' butt around I think its really just your pocket - the passenger. I think Uber has "democratized" the process of becoming a taxi driver. But I doubt it's made things better for taxi drivers. Maybe one could have argued that it had in the early years of Uber - 2 or 3 years ago. But I think the driver's are feeling the pinch now. There's an oversupply in busy areas. Uber also gets new drivers "hooked" by sending them a lot of fares early on after they signup.
- tudorconstantin 10y agoIt seems that Silicon Valley loves to hate people who have a different political opinion than theirs - like Peter Thiel and Travis Kalanick. Regarding the "strange year at Uber" post, it's absolutely shocking for me to see smart people jump at conclusions based on a single point of view - her. I'm not saying she's lying, but hearing just one side of the story is never enough. If the same post would've come from an ex employee of Facebook, which didn't supported Trump, I'm sure people would've had second thoughts regarding its true veracity. But if it's something negatively related to Trump, it must be true. I'm not a Trump voter, I'm not even American and this witch hunting that takes place against Trump's supporters is quite suspicious, even when looked at from Romania where I'm located.
- WalterSear 10y agoNo, they love to hate powerful assholes, and we need to stop pretending that right wing libertarianism is a harmless 'alternate perspective', when it's the political platform of protofacism - in other words, the political platform of the contemporary asshole.
- tudorconstantin 10y agoSo, it's either left wing, socialist perspective, or a wrong and harmless one? That's not a very tolerant position, is it?
- WalterSear 10y agoYou go ahead and fondle your strawman.