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I am struggling to think of something productive to contribute to this discussion, because this absolutely incensed me. In lieu of anything else: Susan deserve

by jmduke 10y ago

I am struggling to think of something productive to contribute to this discussion, because this absolutely incensed me. In lieu of anything else: Susan deserves to be commended for her bravery in writing this.

tmuir 10y ago
No shit. A story like this makes me realize that even with the "problems" I think I have at work, that get me all riled up, I have it made in the shade with lemonade compared to this woman's experience at Uber. I started reading the article with the view of "If it's really that bad, just quit. Burn that bridge with thermite, and never look back." I finished the article wishing there were more Susan J. Fowlers in the world.
kevinburke 10y ago
If an Uber recruiter contacts you, bring this up and tell them their nonfunctioning HR department makes working for their company a non starter. If you work at Uber, quit, and/or contact the board and tell them that this behavior is unacceptable and the people responsible need to be fired. If the culture won't change, the CEO needs to be fired. If you work in tech, bring up this article with your manager or CEO and tell them that this behavior is unacceptable, opens the company up to ridiculous amounts of lawsuit risk, will hurt recruiting, depress morale, and that you will quit if harassment complaints aren't taken seriously.
- 1024core 10y ago
  > If an Uber recruiter contacts you, bring this up and tell them their nonfunctioning HR department makes working for their company a non starter. This. Companies don't change until there's a huge price to be paid for not changing. When top recruits start turning down Uber because of their sexist policies/politics, then Uber will be forced to change.
  - Paul-ish 10y ago
    In addition, the only people left at Uber will be people who think this behavior is acceptable. In that case, it will only be a matter of time before there is a lawsuit.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- sn9 10y ago
  Thinking about the attrition rate of female engineers, I wonder if there's a similar rate of male engineers who leave due to how badly their female colleagues are treated in addition to the other factors listed in this thread and Fowler's piece. If so, that would imply that the engineering culture is being distilled into an evermore toxic workplace, since those who stay are those who make the place toxic or are simply people who try to work around it. It would take an extremely focused and persistent effort on the part of upper management to change this trajectory before the company implodes, as I suspect is inevitable in the long run should my assumptions prove accurate.
  - kevinburke 10y ago
    I really doubt this. A lot of men are totally unaware of how women are treated, which fellow men on their team are harassers, or don't believe women when they report harassment. My evidence for this is every man in tech reacting with shock to this story, and every woman I know saying "yep, I have a story like this," or "I know many women with stories like this"
    - Gargoyle 10y ago
      The behavior discussed in her story includes stuff that's not sexual harassment, though. A sizable chunk of it is about poisonous office politics, something pretty much everyone would be aware of and which most people dislike. So it's not hard to believe people with better options would leave, regardless of gender, leaving people who either like that sort of politics (some do) or don't have better options.
    - lacampbell 10y ago
      > My evidence for this is every man in tech reacting with shock to this story You've interviewed us all, have you? I don't find the accusations surprising or outside the realm of possibility at all.
      - grzm 10y ago
        An alternative (and I believe intended) reading of this line is My evidence for this is every man in tech who is reacting with shock to this story rather than My evidence for this is that every man in tech is reacting with shock to this story
- diminoten 10y ago
  Sure, definitely. Where do I send the bills for my groceries, then? Would you prefer email or snailmail?
  - kevinburke 10y ago
    The people with the most leverage at Uber to make a difference would have their pick of companies to work for; as the OP notes, she had a job offer within a week. If you are actually an engineer at Uber, I bet recruiters are constantly emailing you about job offers. Obviously, if you don't think you can easily get another job, stay.
    - diminoten 10y ago
      There's effort, entropy, and uncertainty with changing jobs. My only point was that saying, "Why don't you just get another job?" is just a little dishonest.
- user5994461 10y ago
  If you work at a company that already fires anyone who acts like that, and later use them during the on-boarding given to all new employees as real life examples of how you do NOT run a proper business... well, enjoy your workplace :D
msisk6 10y ago
Same here. And you know; 100% of the women engineers I know have similar stories. 100%. That's insane. These stories need to come out so the guilty companies and their toxic environments are exposed for all to see. I'd encourage everyone here to pick up a copy of her O'Reilly book -- it's very good. Hopefully she gets all the income and none of it goes to Uber...
home_boi 10y ago
> Susan deserves to be commended for her bravery in writing this. She's already being commended for it through viral marketing for her book club and book.
radmuzom 10y ago
Even I do not have anything productive to contribute to this discussion, but just deleted the Uber app from my phone. Never going to use them again even if that means a lot of inconvenience for me.

by jmduke 10y ago

tmuir 10y ago

No shit. A story like this makes me realize that even with the "problems" I think I have at work, that get me all riled up, I have it made in the shade with lemonade compared to this woman's experience at Uber. I started reading the article with the view of "If it's really that bad, just quit. Burn that bridge with thermite, and never look back." I finished the article wishing there were more Susan J. Fowlers in the world.

kevinburke 10y ago

If an Uber recruiter contacts you, bring this up and tell them their nonfunctioning HR department makes working for their company a non starter. If you work at Uber, quit, and/or contact the board and tell them that this behavior is unacceptable and the people responsible need to be fired. If the culture won't change, the CEO needs to be fired. If you work in tech, bring up this article with your manager or CEO and tell them that this behavior is unacceptable, opens the company up to ridiculous amounts of lawsuit risk, will hurt recruiting, depress morale, and that you will quit if harassment complaints aren't taken seriously.

1024core 10y ago
> If an Uber recruiter contacts you, bring this up and tell them their nonfunctioning HR department makes working for their company a non starter. This. Companies don't change until there's a huge price to be paid for not changing. When top recruits start turning down Uber because of their sexist policies/politics, then Uber will be forced to change.
- Paul-ish 10y ago
  In addition, the only people left at Uber will be people who think this behavior is acceptable. In that case, it will only be a matter of time before there is a lawsuit.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
sn9 10y ago
Thinking about the attrition rate of female engineers, I wonder if there's a similar rate of male engineers who leave due to how badly their female colleagues are treated in addition to the other factors listed in this thread and Fowler's piece. If so, that would imply that the engineering culture is being distilled into an evermore toxic workplace, since those who stay are those who make the place toxic or are simply people who try to work around it. It would take an extremely focused and persistent effort on the part of upper management to change this trajectory before the company implodes, as I suspect is inevitable in the long run should my assumptions prove accurate.
- kevinburke 10y ago
  I really doubt this. A lot of men are totally unaware of how women are treated, which fellow men on their team are harassers, or don't believe women when they report harassment. My evidence for this is every man in tech reacting with shock to this story, and every woman I know saying "yep, I have a story like this," or "I know many women with stories like this"
  - Gargoyle 10y ago
    The behavior discussed in her story includes stuff that's not sexual harassment, though. A sizable chunk of it is about poisonous office politics, something pretty much everyone would be aware of and which most people dislike. So it's not hard to believe people with better options would leave, regardless of gender, leaving people who either like that sort of politics (some do) or don't have better options.
  - lacampbell 10y ago
    > My evidence for this is every man in tech reacting with shock to this story You've interviewed us all, have you? I don't find the accusations surprising or outside the realm of possibility at all.
    - grzm 10y ago
      An alternative (and I believe intended) reading of this line is My evidence for this is every man in tech who is reacting with shock to this story rather than My evidence for this is that every man in tech is reacting with shock to this story
diminoten 10y ago
Sure, definitely. Where do I send the bills for my groceries, then? Would you prefer email or snailmail?
- kevinburke 10y ago
  The people with the most leverage at Uber to make a difference would have their pick of companies to work for; as the OP notes, she had a job offer within a week. If you are actually an engineer at Uber, I bet recruiters are constantly emailing you about job offers. Obviously, if you don't think you can easily get another job, stay.
  - diminoten 10y ago
    There's effort, entropy, and uncertainty with changing jobs. My only point was that saying, "Why don't you just get another job?" is just a little dishonest.
user5994461 10y ago
If you work at a company that already fires anyone who acts like that, and later use them during the on-boarding given to all new employees as real life examples of how you do NOT run a proper business... well, enjoy your workplace :D

msisk6 10y ago

Same here. And you know; 100% of the women engineers I know have similar stories. 100%. That's insane. These stories need to come out so the guilty companies and their toxic environments are exposed for all to see. I'd encourage everyone here to pick up a copy of her O'Reilly book -- it's very good. Hopefully she gets all the income and none of it goes to Uber...

home_boi 10y ago

> Susan deserves to be commended for her bravery in writing this. She's already being commended for it through viral marketing for her book club and book.

radmuzom 10y ago

Even I do not have anything productive to contribute to this discussion, but just deleted the Uber app from my phone. Never going to use them again even if that means a lot of inconvenience for me.