5 ms·

Pixar stories always descend into violent and frightening scenes. It's probably a Hollywood expectation - "it's not a movie without a flat out terrifying villa

Pixar stories always descend into violent and frightening scenes. It's probably a Hollywood expectation - "it's not a movie without a flat out terrifying villain"! Kids that I take to see Pixar movies quake in fear - that's not good kids entertainment. I stopped worshiping Pixar storytelling when I realized this. So don't go learn from khan academy how to emulate Pixar, learn to tell kids stories without fear and violence.

pbhjpbhj 10y ago
Are there mainstream stories that don't have an element of fear in them? Even love stories have fear of loss, or fear of unrequited love, or similar as a facet. Disney/Pixar probably are just emulating European classical storytelling that we find in fairy stories?
- forgottenacc57 10y ago
  Take a 6 year old to see"A bugs life" and watch the kid instead of the movie. When you see the child in absolute terror, ask yourself "is this the right way to entertain a child, through pure terror?" Or do the same thing with the Pixar movie "Up", a fabulous and gentle movie until it gets the mandatory part where they go all out to scare the living shit out of the kids watching with attack dogs.
  - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
    It'll depend a lot on the child.
    - forgottenacc57 10y ago
      Sadly true, perhaps many little kids are brought up on intense violence and might not be scared by Pixar films, which is really sad.
      - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
        I think it's more that some children don't bridge the metaphor to relate cartoon violence to real life or perceive the characters as "real" in any way rather than solely being a story of habituation.
      - dayve 10y ago
        An argument still persists though, on whether 'experiencing' Pixar movies produce the best kids (as compared with intense violence)
  - baby 10y ago
    I'd argue that this is still my face every time I'm on a rollercoaster, but I feel like I enjoyed it when it stops.
  - literallycancer 10y ago
    Are you familiar with Hansel and Gretel? Hansel and Gretel are a young brother and sister kidnapped by a cannibalistic witch living deep in the forest in a house constructed of cake and confectionery. The two children save their lives by outwitting her. I don't think I was older than 5 when it's been first read to me. One might think that one is an exception rather than the norm, so here's the beginning of another one[1] (more a ballad than a fairly tale, but no one would think it's weird if an 8 years old read it). A king is hunting in a forest and encounters a house. He asks for water and a beautiful girl opens the door. He asks to marry her, but she says she needs to ask the step mother, who's in town at the moment. The king returns later, asks the step mother, she offers him her own daughter, but the king orders her to bring the step daughter to the castle the next day. The next day the step mother and her daughter take the step daughter to the forest, where they kill her, take out her eyes, and cut off her limbs. The daughter then impersonates the step daughter and marries the king. And so on. It ends relatively "well", with the step daughter being brought to life again, and the murderers "blinded, their limbs cut off and thrown to the wolves". 1 - https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zlat%C3%BD_kolovrat https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zlat%C3%BD_kolovrat
    - yorwba 10y ago
      A lot of these stories were not exactly kid's stories. Most folktales were probably told and retold by people of all ages, simply because of their entertainment value.
    - sharmi 10y ago
      Folk tales were initially not aimed at young kids at all but for the entertainment (and maybe also illustrating morals) of adults. When the tales are adapted for the kids, the violent themes are often tempered down. The story themselves are often changed. Just visit a book store to see the numerous adaptations are 'Little Red Riding Hood'. Also, for young kids, the book is filtered through the interpretation of parents. So they can mellow down certain parts based on their kid's sensitivities. Also, in books, the really gory parts are often left to the imagination and not every scene is pictorially represented. Fortunately or unfortunately, each and every fact has to be shown in some form in the movie. Movies tend to be more visually stimulating than books and tend to pull in the kids more. On the other hand, books have the luxury of being able to provide stories tailored to each age group. Movies have no such luxury if they are to be financially viable. Also each movie wants to have a villain more scarier than all the ones before and visuals (earthquakes, huge torrents of water anyone) much grander. You invariably endup with something frightening for kids. But above all, kids' imagination are more volatile and fertile than ours. Their view of the world is incomplete and hence their interpretations of the same scenes could be radically different and unpredictable. Case in point, My four-year-old was frightened of 'My Neighbour Totoro', especially, the scene of Totoro on the tree at night and the catbus :) .
  - pavelrub 10y ago
    > When you see the child in absolute terror, ask yourself "is this the right way to entertain a child, through pure terror?" Maybe instead of reaching all kinds of dubious conclusions based on anecdotal evidence on how children look like during certain parts of the movie, you should instead ask the child, after the movie is over, whether he liked it or not. I think you will find that the vast majority of children greatly enjoy most Pixar movies. The claim that Pixar movies, or the levels of violence depicted in them, are harmful to children or to society, has zero evidence in support of it.
twright0 10y ago
As long as we're sharing anecdotes, I've been watching Pixar movies since I was quite young - Toy Story was the first movie I saw in the theaters, at the age of four - and I have consistently loved them. Toy Story was my favorite movie for years as a child. There are some mildly scary or tense scenes in many Pixar movies but I think children are more receptive to that kind of experience than you think they are. There is definitely a question of age appropriateness / maturity that you would want to think about before showing one to a very young child, but that's the responsibility of you as the adult, not Pixar. Kids movies aren't one size fits all. And it certainly doesn't feel like a valid criticism of the quality of the storytelling to say that some children are scared by them; tension and investment in the outcome by the viewer are hallmarks of good storytelling, not bad.
coldtea 10y ago
>So don't go learn from khan academy how to emulate Pixar, learn to tell kids stories without fear and violence. To prepare them for life in the magical unicorn fairy-land? Besides, have you read the original Brothers Grimm stories and such?
- baby 10y ago
  > To prepare them for life in the magical unicorn fairy-land? Sure, good point. In the video where the story artist talks about simba talking to his dead father, she said that it traumatized her but that she grew up a little after that. > Besides, have you read the original Brothers Grimm stories and such? I know we don't know much about what's the best way to raise kids. But history doesn't always teach good lessons.
- forgottenacc57 10y ago
  I don't take my kids to movies to prepare them for life, I take them for fun, to be entertained. Yes, in a magical unicorn fairyland. Sounds like you either don't have kids or you're prepping them for doomsday.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >I don't take my kids to movies to prepare them for life, I take them for fun, to be entertained. Yeah, let's produce more fragile snowflake adults that can't handle life, and can't understand movies and art either, unless it is merely "entertainment". Because that has worked so well in this past few generations. >Sounds like you either don't have kids or you're prepping them for doomsday. Or you know, am using millennia old best practices of preparing them for life, for which art, storytelling and (this last century) movies has been one of the best ways. Instead of feeding them the art-equivalent of McDonalds, which is bad for their soul and for their upbringing.
baby 10y ago
I think you bring a good point, and it's a shame you're getting downvoted (although it might be because of the tone you use). But in one of the video, one story artist is talking about her first experience with the lion king and how traumatized she was by simba trying to talk to his dead father. And then I understood one thing: I always thought that for you to make a long lasting mark into the world, you had to build a castle. But there are other ways: make cute animations targeting kids, but sneakily insert traumatizing sequences.
briandear 10y ago
There is no such thing as a story without fear, sex or violence. Three little pigs: violence Little Red Riding Hood: violence with a hint of sex Sound of Music: sex with the fear of violence from the Nazis. ALL good stories must have conflict. All conflict originates from sex or violence. Here's the most basic story in the Aristotlian tradition: Get a man in a tree Throw rocks at him Get him down again One could argue about what level of explicitness is appropriate for kids -- but there's no such thing as a story without fear, violence or sex. Look at Fox and the Hound or Bambi, Peter Pan, Cinderella, Snow White -- all varying degrees of sex and violence and the fear and anticipation of each.
- erikpukinskis 10y ago
  > All conflict originates from sex or violence. What about The Big Short? No sex or violence there. Or what about Spirited Away? I'm sure there's some ostensible violence here and there, but the conflict in that film I think comes from things being out of place, not from overt danger. Sex and violence are overrepresented in media because they are easy. A writer who has drank too much coffee and is out of ideas for the 10th day in a row can put some sex or violence up without thinking much and get a reaction. That doesn't mean these things are the only source of conflict in the world, or in storytelling. Just the easiest.
  - briandear 10y ago
    I think you are taking sex and violence literally, or interpreting it to mean physical sex or violence. Hatred, for example is a form of violence. Sex and violence are the primary colors of a storyteller's palette. Highly recommend Lew Hunter for a better explaination than I provided: https://books.google.fr/books?id=7VUihxcjzecC&pg=PA22&lpg=PA22&dq=lew+hunter+sex+and+violence&source=bl&ots=PZK_gAVhsD&sig=gsX4Rk6x92-fRRauCQmVpGkDsN4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiyiKCX9ZvSAhUnLZoKHexnDnAQ6AEIHDAB#v=onepage&q=lew%20hunter%20sex%20and%20violence&f=false https://books.google.fr/books?id=7VUihxcjzecC&pg=PA22&lpg=PA...
    - erikpukinskis 10y ago
      What is your definition if conflict then? If you broaden your definition of violence to include all kinds of conflict, then all you're saying is "all conflict is conflict".
MichaelMoser123 10y ago
Fairy tales used to be very dark and cruel - just look at older prints of Grimm's fairy tales. I guess it goes with the genre.
rb808 10y ago
You should look at the old Disney classics, they're scary. Pinocchio is super sketchy. I think this is what makes them interesting - kids like being scared too. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0032910/synopsis?ref_=tt_stry_pl http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0032910/synopsis?ref_=tt_stry_pl
- Fricken 10y ago
  And many Disney classics are watered down versions of the folk tales they're based on.
bshimmin 10y ago
With the possible exception of Frank, the combine harvester, I don't think there's anything remotely scary or frightening in Cars.
Fricken 10y ago
I think somebody here has completely lost touch with what it's like to be a kid. Why would someone not want to teach their kids to manage and overcome their fears in a safe environment? Pixar is following a tradition that goes back to the origins of story telling. Ever read Grimm's fairytales? They're even worse. Scare the kids! Teach them to overcome their fears in a safe environment so they don't grow up to be irrational and superstitious. They need to be innoculated against these things so they don't grow up with allergies that stunt them later in life.

pbhjpbhj 10y ago

Are there mainstream stories that don't have an element of fear in them? Even love stories have fear of loss, or fear of unrequited love, or similar as a facet. Disney/Pixar probably are just emulating European classical storytelling that we find in fairy stories?

forgottenacc57 10y ago
Take a 6 year old to see"A bugs life" and watch the kid instead of the movie. When you see the child in absolute terror, ask yourself "is this the right way to entertain a child, through pure terror?" Or do the same thing with the Pixar movie "Up", a fabulous and gentle movie until it gets the mandatory part where they go all out to scare the living shit out of the kids watching with attack dogs.
- pbhjpbhj 10y ago
  It'll depend a lot on the child.
  - forgottenacc57 10y ago
    Sadly true, perhaps many little kids are brought up on intense violence and might not be scared by Pixar films, which is really sad.
    - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
      I think it's more that some children don't bridge the metaphor to relate cartoon violence to real life or perceive the characters as "real" in any way rather than solely being a story of habituation.
    - dayve 10y ago
      An argument still persists though, on whether 'experiencing' Pixar movies produce the best kids (as compared with intense violence)
- baby 10y ago
  I'd argue that this is still my face every time I'm on a rollercoaster, but I feel like I enjoyed it when it stops.
- literallycancer 10y ago
  Are you familiar with Hansel and Gretel? Hansel and Gretel are a young brother and sister kidnapped by a cannibalistic witch living deep in the forest in a house constructed of cake and confectionery. The two children save their lives by outwitting her. I don't think I was older than 5 when it's been first read to me. One might think that one is an exception rather than the norm, so here's the beginning of another one[1] (more a ballad than a fairly tale, but no one would think it's weird if an 8 years old read it). A king is hunting in a forest and encounters a house. He asks for water and a beautiful girl opens the door. He asks to marry her, but she says she needs to ask the step mother, who's in town at the moment. The king returns later, asks the step mother, she offers him her own daughter, but the king orders her to bring the step daughter to the castle the next day. The next day the step mother and her daughter take the step daughter to the forest, where they kill her, take out her eyes, and cut off her limbs. The daughter then impersonates the step daughter and marries the king. And so on. It ends relatively "well", with the step daughter being brought to life again, and the murderers "blinded, their limbs cut off and thrown to the wolves". 1 - https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zlat%C3%BD_kolovrat https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zlat%C3%BD_kolovrat
  - yorwba 10y ago
    A lot of these stories were not exactly kid's stories. Most folktales were probably told and retold by people of all ages, simply because of their entertainment value.
  - sharmi 10y ago
    Folk tales were initially not aimed at young kids at all but for the entertainment (and maybe also illustrating morals) of adults. When the tales are adapted for the kids, the violent themes are often tempered down. The story themselves are often changed. Just visit a book store to see the numerous adaptations are 'Little Red Riding Hood'. Also, for young kids, the book is filtered through the interpretation of parents. So they can mellow down certain parts based on their kid's sensitivities. Also, in books, the really gory parts are often left to the imagination and not every scene is pictorially represented. Fortunately or unfortunately, each and every fact has to be shown in some form in the movie. Movies tend to be more visually stimulating than books and tend to pull in the kids more. On the other hand, books have the luxury of being able to provide stories tailored to each age group. Movies have no such luxury if they are to be financially viable. Also each movie wants to have a villain more scarier than all the ones before and visuals (earthquakes, huge torrents of water anyone) much grander. You invariably endup with something frightening for kids. But above all, kids' imagination are more volatile and fertile than ours. Their view of the world is incomplete and hence their interpretations of the same scenes could be radically different and unpredictable. Case in point, My four-year-old was frightened of 'My Neighbour Totoro', especially, the scene of Totoro on the tree at night and the catbus :) .
- pavelrub 10y ago
  > When you see the child in absolute terror, ask yourself "is this the right way to entertain a child, through pure terror?" Maybe instead of reaching all kinds of dubious conclusions based on anecdotal evidence on how children look like during certain parts of the movie, you should instead ask the child, after the movie is over, whether he liked it or not. I think you will find that the vast majority of children greatly enjoy most Pixar movies. The claim that Pixar movies, or the levels of violence depicted in them, are harmful to children or to society, has zero evidence in support of it.

twright0 10y ago

As long as we're sharing anecdotes, I've been watching Pixar movies since I was quite young - Toy Story was the first movie I saw in the theaters, at the age of four - and I have consistently loved them. Toy Story was my favorite movie for years as a child. There are some mildly scary or tense scenes in many Pixar movies but I think children are more receptive to that kind of experience than you think they are. There is definitely a question of age appropriateness / maturity that you would want to think about before showing one to a very young child, but that's the responsibility of you as the adult, not Pixar. Kids movies aren't one size fits all. And it certainly doesn't feel like a valid criticism of the quality of the storytelling to say that some children are scared by them; tension and investment in the outcome by the viewer are hallmarks of good storytelling, not bad.

coldtea 10y ago

>So don't go learn from khan academy how to emulate Pixar, learn to tell kids stories without fear and violence. To prepare them for life in the magical unicorn fairy-land? Besides, have you read the original Brothers Grimm stories and such?

baby 10y ago
> To prepare them for life in the magical unicorn fairy-land? Sure, good point. In the video where the story artist talks about simba talking to his dead father, she said that it traumatized her but that she grew up a little after that. > Besides, have you read the original Brothers Grimm stories and such? I know we don't know much about what's the best way to raise kids. But history doesn't always teach good lessons.
forgottenacc57 10y ago
I don't take my kids to movies to prepare them for life, I take them for fun, to be entertained. Yes, in a magical unicorn fairyland. Sounds like you either don't have kids or you're prepping them for doomsday.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >I don't take my kids to movies to prepare them for life, I take them for fun, to be entertained. Yeah, let's produce more fragile snowflake adults that can't handle life, and can't understand movies and art either, unless it is merely "entertainment". Because that has worked so well in this past few generations. >Sounds like you either don't have kids or you're prepping them for doomsday. Or you know, am using millennia old best practices of preparing them for life, for which art, storytelling and (this last century) movies has been one of the best ways. Instead of feeding them the art-equivalent of McDonalds, which is bad for their soul and for their upbringing.

baby 10y ago

I think you bring a good point, and it's a shame you're getting downvoted (although it might be because of the tone you use). But in one of the video, one story artist is talking about her first experience with the lion king and how traumatized she was by simba trying to talk to his dead father. And then I understood one thing: I always thought that for you to make a long lasting mark into the world, you had to build a castle. But there are other ways: make cute animations targeting kids, but sneakily insert traumatizing sequences.

briandear 10y ago

There is no such thing as a story without fear, sex or violence. Three little pigs: violence Little Red Riding Hood: violence with a hint of sex Sound of Music: sex with the fear of violence from the Nazis. ALL good stories must have conflict. All conflict originates from sex or violence. Here's the most basic story in the Aristotlian tradition: Get a man in a tree Throw rocks at him Get him down again One could argue about what level of explicitness is appropriate for kids -- but there's no such thing as a story without fear, violence or sex. Look at Fox and the Hound or Bambi, Peter Pan, Cinderella, Snow White -- all varying degrees of sex and violence and the fear and anticipation of each.

erikpukinskis 10y ago
> All conflict originates from sex or violence. What about The Big Short? No sex or violence there. Or what about Spirited Away? I'm sure there's some ostensible violence here and there, but the conflict in that film I think comes from things being out of place, not from overt danger. Sex and violence are overrepresented in media because they are easy. A writer who has drank too much coffee and is out of ideas for the 10th day in a row can put some sex or violence up without thinking much and get a reaction. That doesn't mean these things are the only source of conflict in the world, or in storytelling. Just the easiest.
- briandear 10y ago
  I think you are taking sex and violence literally, or interpreting it to mean physical sex or violence. Hatred, for example is a form of violence. Sex and violence are the primary colors of a storyteller's palette. Highly recommend Lew Hunter for a better explaination than I provided: https://books.google.fr/books?id=7VUihxcjzecC&pg=PA22&lpg=PA22&dq=lew+hunter+sex+and+violence&source=bl&ots=PZK_gAVhsD&sig=gsX4Rk6x92-fRRauCQmVpGkDsN4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiyiKCX9ZvSAhUnLZoKHexnDnAQ6AEIHDAB#v=onepage&q=lew%20hunter%20sex%20and%20violence&f=false https://books.google.fr/books?id=7VUihxcjzecC&pg=PA22&lpg=PA...
  - erikpukinskis 10y ago
    What is your definition if conflict then? If you broaden your definition of violence to include all kinds of conflict, then all you're saying is "all conflict is conflict".

MichaelMoser123 10y ago

Fairy tales used to be very dark and cruel - just look at older prints of Grimm's fairy tales. I guess it goes with the genre.

rb808 10y ago

You should look at the old Disney classics, they're scary. Pinocchio is super sketchy. I think this is what makes them interesting - kids like being scared too. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0032910/synopsis?ref_=tt_stry_pl http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0032910/synopsis?ref_=tt_stry_pl

Fricken 10y ago
And many Disney classics are watered down versions of the folk tales they're based on.

bshimmin 10y ago

With the possible exception of Frank, the combine harvester, I don't think there's anything remotely scary or frightening in Cars.

Fricken 10y ago

I think somebody here has completely lost touch with what it's like to be a kid. Why would someone not want to teach their kids to manage and overcome their fears in a safe environment? Pixar is following a tradition that goes back to the origins of story telling. Ever read Grimm's fairytales? They're even worse. Scare the kids! Teach them to overcome their fears in a safe environment so they don't grow up to be irrational and superstitious. They need to be innoculated against these things so they don't grow up with allergies that stunt them later in life.