10 ms·

The man who sold the world on credit cards

67 points by imartin2k 10y ago

janvdberg 10y ago
There is also an interesting 99% invisible episode about this: http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-fresno-drop/ http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-fresno-drop/
- tradersam 10y ago
  For anyone who hasn't listened to this episode, I highly recommend it. Incredibly informative about the history and nature of credit cards, and how they've evolved over time.
kayoone 10y ago
Especially in some european countries like Germany, where CCs are not very popular and can't be used in a lot of places, it's easy to think that they are ultimately bad because people get this false feeling of thinking they can afford things they actually can't or shouldn't. And for the individual that is probably true. On the other hand, the economics effects of credit cards, or credit/loans in general can't be understated. Some industries and therefor technological advances like cars or housing for example, would never be where they are without credits/loans. In the same way i think that a lof of things like computers, tvs, holidays would never get bought without the existence of credit cards. And in the end all of that feeds the gigantic banking industry and can also be seen as the base of everything thats wrong with our financial system, as shown in the 2009 crash.
- ljlolel 10y ago
  More true in the 90's. Now the biggest debts are student loans (in the US)
- gpvos 10y ago
  Does someone have a list of countries where credit cards (as opposed to debit cards) are actually popular (apart from the US?) I'm in the Netherlands, and I only use mine for international online payments, and I have it with me as a backup (but seldom use it) while travelling abroad. And even then, it's automatically paid off in full every month, so the credit function isn't really doing much. For the rest I use cash, or have a debit card from my bank, which is accepted in most European countries. As for acceptance, hotels and restaurants, and tourist-oriented shops generally accept it, but otherwise almost no-one. (Edit: added emphasis on credit cards as opposed to debit cards.)
  - Drakim 10y ago
    Norway here, it's super popular. The only place in my entire life that I was not using a credit card regularly at was the local flea market, but last time I went there they even had one of those portable credit card things. Otherwise, I use it to pay for food, taxi, bars, just everything. Even if I need to send some money to a friend to pay for my share of the pizza, we use an app that lets us send money between credit cards. I haven't carried coins on me for more than a year. I do have one backup bill hidden away in my wallet just in case things go sour.
    - heeen 10y ago
      Are those actual credit cards or are they debit cards? If you pay for something, when does it bill your actual account?
      - digi_owl 10y ago
        They are debit cards. Most bank cards issued in Norway that i have seen are debit first via the national system, with the option of using either a VISA or Mastercard as a second option. And while i have only had to deal with VISA, those billed directly to the account (and seems to be a popular way for paying online).
    - alkonaut 10y ago
      Unless Norway is wildly different from Sweden then most use a debit card. Many people carry a credit card too, perhaps as a free service from their bank, or a company card - but so long as one has both it's normally best to use the debit one. If you always pay the bill in time there's very little difference, but I feel a big mental threshold to "buy now pay later".
- kalleboo 10y ago
  I think the specificity is misplaced in the context of the article. In the first place, he didn't even create a credit card - it was a charge card, where the whole balance needs to be paid off in a month. Secondarily, without charge and debit cards paving the way, would we even have debit cards today?
- digi_owl 10y ago
  The concept of lines of credit existed for a long time before credit cards, but were largely limited to businesses. They allow a factory for example to keep buying inputs while their outputs are being shipped to customers etc. Credit cards, and their effect on the overall economy is a different beast however. Especially as they have to a large extent replaced the push for higher wages.
  - gpvos 10y ago
    > they have to a large extent replaced the push for higher wages. A fascinating claim. I can see how that would work, but haven't heard of it before. Is this commonly accepted knowledge in the US, or do you have a source?
    - digi_owl 10y ago
      I suspect i picked it up from one of Steve Keen's presentations or articles/blogs, but i can't find a direct reference for you at this moment.
- johnchristopher 10y ago
  > On the other hand, the economics effects of credit cards, or credit/loans in general can't be understated. Some industries and therefor technological advances like cars or housing for example, would never be where they are without credits/loans. credit card != line of credit
  - chrisseaton 10y ago
    How would a credit card work, without a line of credit to back it up?
    - johnchristopher 10y ago
      Line of credit and the whole economic concept of credit existed long before credit card. Credit card is just lubricant to the economy (or debt making some might say).
      - chrisseaton 10y ago
        > Line of credit and the whole economic concept of credit existed long before credit card. I didn't ask how can a line of credit exist without a credit card, I asked how can a credit card exist without a line of credit. > Credit card is just lubricant to the economy (or debt making some might say). I still don't think that answers the question.
        johnchristopher 10y ago
        > I didn't ask how can a line of credit exist without a credit card, I asked how can a credit card exist without a line of credit. What makes you think it can't ? Of course a credit card relies on the concept of line of credit. I am stating the obvious that two things (line of credit and credit card) are different and you are the one asking how one (credit card) can exist without the other one (line of credit) like it implied both are the same or mutually dependent. It's not. There are a lot of countries where you can have a line of credit without a credit card. Hence: line of credit != credit card. > > Credit card is just lubricant to the economy (or debt making some might say). > I still don't think that answers the question. That's because you pick the wrong sentence in my reply and make it an answer to your question in order to fit your argument. Or maybe you really are arguing that a credit card is actually the same thing as a line of credit ?
- badosu 10y ago
  "In the same way i think that a lof of things like computers, tvs, holidays would never get bought without the existence of credit cards." Would you mind explaining why that would be the case?
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    Likely seeing that the up front cost would be too high for anyone to save up for them. Never mind that paying through installments or similar existed long before credit cards came about. I guess the one thing that credit cards did was that they moved the arrangement from being between seller and buyer to be between buyer and card company. so rather than having to get a installment plan set up for every purchase, one instead get them all bundled onto the card account.
    - badosu 10y ago
      I'd imagined so. I was surprised by that affirmation as it does not seem very obvious to me. I guess that one thing that might get confused is the cultural shift of enabling debt accumulation without direct relation of shame with the seller to the actual buying possibilites.
- kijin 10y ago
  > cars or housing for example, would never be where they are without credits/loans. If it were impossible to convince people to take out massive loans to buy cars and houses, the automotive and housing industry would probably have taken a different approach in order to sell their goods. Rentals might have become more popular, curbing the growth of the suburbs, affording workers higher mobility, and resulting in a smaller carbon footprint for the country as a whole. Ditto for other expensive items such as computers and smartphones. Most of us don't really own our devices anyway; we exercise limited control over the device at the mercy of the manufacturer and/or carrier. It doesn't take much imagination to go one step further and say that you're just renting it for the duration of your contract. I don't really like this scenario, but it's a possibility.
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    I seem to recall reading that Ford offered his factory employees to take a model T home with them and pay it down via a deduction on their monthly wage.
- crdoconnor 10y ago
  >On the other hand, the economics effects of credit cards, or credit/loans in general can't be understated. Some industries and therefor technological advances like... housing Humans have managed to build and live in accommodation for thousands of years without taking out fixed rate mortgages. >In the same way i think that a lof of things like computers, tvs, holidays would never get bought without the existence of credit cards. Consumer goods were purchased without problems before credit cards existed. Habitually buying consumer goods on credit has largely paralleled the great 1970s decoupling from wealth and productivity.
redsummer 10y ago
The method I spend money (offline) is in this order: 1 - Apple Pay (if available) 2 - Debit Card 3 - Credit Card And cash for small amount if it makes tipping easier, or they don't take anything else. I only use Credit Cards for car hire, where it seems to be obligatory. Online I always use debit card.
- thereisnospork 10y ago
  Why debit over credit? My understanding has always been that credit offers a higher degree of fraud protection, plus better rewards and no interest if you have the discipline to not carry a balance.
  - johnchristopher 10y ago
    Might depend on the country of the parent and its money culture (credit card usage, etc.). FWIW, the other day I just made a quick payment with my bank mobile app. I entered an amount of money, it displayed a qr code, the other party (with a different bank) scanned it and the money was transferred instantly. It's a totally free service, no monthly charge, no piling interests, doesn't require me to go into a bank or fill an online demand to get a credit card. Way easier to split the restaurant fees or something that way. Europe, yeah for bancontact. And: > and no interest if you have the discipline to not carry a balance. But there is no interest on debit card and you don't need the credit card discipline so it's not really an advantage over debit card. Some people just don't need or want a credit card. I am obliged to take one because some online services (mooc) requires it (and it's a bother, I should have done that a month ago but it's a hassle to do).
    - chrisseaton 10y ago
      A credit card literally pays you to use it, with cash back or miles or whatever you get. If the price is the same for debit, why would you not use a credit card?
      - seszett 10y ago
nicolas_t 10y ago
Seems that there's a lot of confusion between credit cards and debit cards and usage in Europe and US. In some countries (including the US), a credit card is a card that you pay at the end of the month. You have a statement and you have to pay for that statement. If you so choose you can pay less and pay at least the "minimum payment", in that case you pay interest rate on the remaining money. There are debit cards, with debit cards the amount is directly debited from your account as you use it. Then in a lot of European countries, we have cards that we call credit cards which are actually deferred debit cards. The money you've spent is debited from your account on a fixed date at the end of the month. You have a credit line in that until it's debited at the end of the month, you're effectively borrowing money but since it debits your account, you're expected to pay it in full. Often this is associated with overdraft facilities on the bank account which means that at the end of the month, if the money to pay the credit card bill is not your account, the account will be overdrawn and you will pay interest (which are similar to the interest rates for credit cards in the US, around 18%)... So, the European system with deferred debit cards is different but in practice has a bit of the same issues with overpaying and high interest rates. It's just that the credit line is tied to the bank account and not the credit card.
- GordonS 10y ago
  > in a lot of European countries, we have cards that we call credit cards which are actually deferred debit cards. The money you've spent is debited from your account on a fixed date at the end of the month Interesting, I'm in the UK and have never heard of this kind of card.
  - FooBarWidget 10y ago
    I am in the Netherlands and this is exactly how all of my credit cards work. I have never seen a credit card that does not work this way.
    - gpvos 10y ago
      For both credit cards issued by ING you can choose to pay only partly at the end of the month, and have revolving credit. Most people don't choose this though, as far as I know. I didn't check the other banks.
muninn_ 10y ago
I've see a lot of comments about credit cards and people mentioning stuff like it's better to use a debit card and to "pay the balance off in full each month", but you are absolutely incorrect. Now it is true, obviously, that you should pay the balance off in full every month, not doing so is how the credit card companies make money, but using your credit card is nearly universally better Jan debit for two reasons: 1. At least in the US, you receive cash back for using a credit card. As an example, many cards offer 1-2% straight up cash back. Even if you used it in the most inefficient manner, such as just getting the cash back instead of discounted airfare or something, that's a lifetime of saving 1-2% on all your purchases. That's huge. 2. Protection. It's simple. If I use a card and get scammed (mostly happening in Europe I might add), then if I used a debit card it is my money that has been stolen and now I have to get it back. If I use the credit card? It's the banks money. Now I know obviously that there are people who don't pay their bills, lose their job, or whatever and that's how the companies make money, and maybe if we all used cash things would be cheaper or something, but unless there is a serious movement in that direction you should always use a credit card, even the most basic one you can. I'll also mention that this doesn't cover the plethora of various benefits that you can use for different cards: automatic extension of warranties on purchases made with credit cards, automatic rental car insurance, etc....
- zapu 10y ago
  In Europe, it's much easier to get debit than credit. You get debit card for any bank account you own, and sometimes it will even be free of charge. Even for accounts in different currency than your local one. Functionally, it's not much different than credit - you can pay on the internet, pay in all the stores, use in ATM. Why bother with applying for credit card, then (for most people)? It used to be different though, for example 10+ years ago I couldn't pay on the internet with my debit card, it had to be credit card - we called them "convex cards" because of the "raised" numbers on the card instead of just flat-printed card number.
  - muninn_ 10y ago
    In the US a debit card is free and standard for any checking or savings account. It's functionally the same, yes, in the sense they are just plastic cards that perform transactions, but as I mentioned in my post there's a big difference in the financial impact. I won't pretend to know the rules, regulations, etc in Europe for credit cards, but when I traveled there I used my cards for everything and only had a problem once with CaptaineTrain booking a train ticket. With one of my cards I get 3% cash back on dining. So while I'm traveling throughout Europe I'm getting 3% off every meal. If you're paying in cash you're still paying full price. Soooo why pay in cash and not get a 3% discount. I've also noticed recently that Yelp is offering discounts when people link their credit card in their Yelp account. I saw something like 7% off of your meal for doing so at one restaurant. Now I haven't done that yet, I'm still considering the privacy implications, but it is there. In the US at least, and I suspect Europe, you should use a credit card for every single purchase.
losteverything 10y ago
I recall my mother making a purchase over $50 (fancy dress clothing) and the store had to call in for approval. When did magnetic stripes and swiping become mainstream? How about calling cards. I believe I sat across from the man who "invented " the calling card as we knew it.
webmaven 10y ago
I am a bit surprised at the amount of credit (pun unintended) given here to Simmons, completely ignoring the contributions of Dee Hock[0] who started the BankAmeriCard[1] revolving credit system that later became Visa. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dee_Hock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dee_Hock [1] http://about.bankofamerica.com/en-us/our-story/birth-of-modern-credit-card.html http://about.bankofamerica.com/en-us/our-story/birth-of-mode...

67 points by imartin2k 10y ago

There is also an interesting 99% invisible episode about this: http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-fresno-drop/ http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-fresno-drop/

tradersam 10y ago
For anyone who hasn't listened to this episode, I highly recommend it. Incredibly informative about the history and nature of credit cards, and how they've evolved over time.

kayoone 10y ago

Especially in some european countries like Germany, where CCs are not very popular and can't be used in a lot of places, it's easy to think that they are ultimately bad because people get this false feeling of thinking they can afford things they actually can't or shouldn't. And for the individual that is probably true. On the other hand, the economics effects of credit cards, or credit/loans in general can't be understated. Some industries and therefor technological advances like cars or housing for example, would never be where they are without credits/loans. In the same way i think that a lof of things like computers, tvs, holidays would never get bought without the existence of credit cards. And in the end all of that feeds the gigantic banking industry and can also be seen as the base of everything thats wrong with our financial system, as shown in the 2009 crash.

ljlolel 10y ago
More true in the 90's. Now the biggest debts are student loans (in the US)
gpvos 10y ago
Does someone have a list of countries where credit cards (as opposed to debit cards) are actually popular (apart from the US?) I'm in the Netherlands, and I only use mine for international online payments, and I have it with me as a backup (but seldom use it) while travelling abroad. And even then, it's automatically paid off in full every month, so the credit function isn't really doing much. For the rest I use cash, or have a debit card from my bank, which is accepted in most European countries. As for acceptance, hotels and restaurants, and tourist-oriented shops generally accept it, but otherwise almost no-one. (Edit: added emphasis on credit cards as opposed to debit cards.)
- Drakim 10y ago
  Norway here, it's super popular. The only place in my entire life that I was not using a credit card regularly at was the local flea market, but last time I went there they even had one of those portable credit card things. Otherwise, I use it to pay for food, taxi, bars, just everything. Even if I need to send some money to a friend to pay for my share of the pizza, we use an app that lets us send money between credit cards. I haven't carried coins on me for more than a year. I do have one backup bill hidden away in my wallet just in case things go sour.
  - heeen 10y ago
    Are those actual credit cards or are they debit cards? If you pay for something, when does it bill your actual account?
    - digi_owl 10y ago
      They are debit cards. Most bank cards issued in Norway that i have seen are debit first via the national system, with the option of using either a VISA or Mastercard as a second option. And while i have only had to deal with VISA, those billed directly to the account (and seems to be a popular way for paying online).
  - alkonaut 10y ago
    Unless Norway is wildly different from Sweden then most use a debit card. Many people carry a credit card too, perhaps as a free service from their bank, or a company card - but so long as one has both it's normally best to use the debit one. If you always pay the bill in time there's very little difference, but I feel a big mental threshold to "buy now pay later".
kalleboo 10y ago
I think the specificity is misplaced in the context of the article. In the first place, he didn't even create a credit card - it was a charge card, where the whole balance needs to be paid off in a month. Secondarily, without charge and debit cards paving the way, would we even have debit cards today?
digi_owl 10y ago
The concept of lines of credit existed for a long time before credit cards, but were largely limited to businesses. They allow a factory for example to keep buying inputs while their outputs are being shipped to customers etc. Credit cards, and their effect on the overall economy is a different beast however. Especially as they have to a large extent replaced the push for higher wages.
- gpvos 10y ago
  > they have to a large extent replaced the push for higher wages. A fascinating claim. I can see how that would work, but haven't heard of it before. Is this commonly accepted knowledge in the US, or do you have a source?
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    I suspect i picked it up from one of Steve Keen's presentations or articles/blogs, but i can't find a direct reference for you at this moment.
johnchristopher 10y ago
> On the other hand, the economics effects of credit cards, or credit/loans in general can't be understated. Some industries and therefor technological advances like cars or housing for example, would never be where they are without credits/loans. credit card != line of credit
- chrisseaton 10y ago
  How would a credit card work, without a line of credit to back it up?
  - johnchristopher 10y ago
    Line of credit and the whole economic concept of credit existed long before credit card. Credit card is just lubricant to the economy (or debt making some might say).
    - chrisseaton 10y ago
      > Line of credit and the whole economic concept of credit existed long before credit card. I didn't ask how can a line of credit exist without a credit card, I asked how can a credit card exist without a line of credit. > Credit card is just lubricant to the economy (or debt making some might say). I still don't think that answers the question.
      - johnchristopher 10y ago
        > I didn't ask how can a line of credit exist without a credit card, I asked how can a credit card exist without a line of credit. What makes you think it can't ? Of course a credit card relies on the concept of line of credit. I am stating the obvious that two things (line of credit and credit card) are different and you are the one asking how one (credit card) can exist without the other one (line of credit) like it implied both are the same or mutually dependent. It's not. There are a lot of countries where you can have a line of credit without a credit card. Hence: line of credit != credit card. > > Credit card is just lubricant to the economy (or debt making some might say). > I still don't think that answers the question. That's because you pick the wrong sentence in my reply and make it an answer to your question in order to fit your argument. Or maybe you really are arguing that a credit card is actually the same thing as a line of credit ?
badosu 10y ago
"In the same way i think that a lof of things like computers, tvs, holidays would never get bought without the existence of credit cards." Would you mind explaining why that would be the case?
- digi_owl 10y ago
  Likely seeing that the up front cost would be too high for anyone to save up for them. Never mind that paying through installments or similar existed long before credit cards came about. I guess the one thing that credit cards did was that they moved the arrangement from being between seller and buyer to be between buyer and card company. so rather than having to get a installment plan set up for every purchase, one instead get them all bundled onto the card account.
  - badosu 10y ago
    I'd imagined so. I was surprised by that affirmation as it does not seem very obvious to me. I guess that one thing that might get confused is the cultural shift of enabling debt accumulation without direct relation of shame with the seller to the actual buying possibilites.
kijin 10y ago
> cars or housing for example, would never be where they are without credits/loans. If it were impossible to convince people to take out massive loans to buy cars and houses, the automotive and housing industry would probably have taken a different approach in order to sell their goods. Rentals might have become more popular, curbing the growth of the suburbs, affording workers higher mobility, and resulting in a smaller carbon footprint for the country as a whole. Ditto for other expensive items such as computers and smartphones. Most of us don't really own our devices anyway; we exercise limited control over the device at the mercy of the manufacturer and/or carrier. It doesn't take much imagination to go one step further and say that you're just renting it for the duration of your contract. I don't really like this scenario, but it's a possibility.
- digi_owl 10y ago
  I seem to recall reading that Ford offered his factory employees to take a model T home with them and pay it down via a deduction on their monthly wage.
crdoconnor 10y ago
>On the other hand, the economics effects of credit cards, or credit/loans in general can't be understated. Some industries and therefor technological advances like... housing Humans have managed to build and live in accommodation for thousands of years without taking out fixed rate mortgages. >In the same way i think that a lof of things like computers, tvs, holidays would never get bought without the existence of credit cards. Consumer goods were purchased without problems before credit cards existed. Habitually buying consumer goods on credit has largely paralleled the great 1970s decoupling from wealth and productivity.

redsummer 10y ago

The method I spend money (offline) is in this order: 1 - Apple Pay (if available) 2 - Debit Card 3 - Credit Card And cash for small amount if it makes tipping easier, or they don't take anything else. I only use Credit Cards for car hire, where it seems to be obligatory. Online I always use debit card.

thereisnospork 10y ago
Why debit over credit? My understanding has always been that credit offers a higher degree of fraud protection, plus better rewards and no interest if you have the discipline to not carry a balance.
- johnchristopher 10y ago
  Might depend on the country of the parent and its money culture (credit card usage, etc.). FWIW, the other day I just made a quick payment with my bank mobile app. I entered an amount of money, it displayed a qr code, the other party (with a different bank) scanned it and the money was transferred instantly. It's a totally free service, no monthly charge, no piling interests, doesn't require me to go into a bank or fill an online demand to get a credit card. Way easier to split the restaurant fees or something that way. Europe, yeah for bancontact. And: > and no interest if you have the discipline to not carry a balance. But there is no interest on debit card and you don't need the credit card discipline so it's not really an advantage over debit card. Some people just don't need or want a credit card. I am obliged to take one because some online services (mooc) requires it (and it's a bother, I should have done that a month ago but it's a hassle to do).
  - chrisseaton 10y ago
    A credit card literally pays you to use it, with cash back or miles or whatever you get. If the price is the same for debit, why would you not use a credit card?
    - seszett 10y ago

nicolas_t 10y ago

Seems that there's a lot of confusion between credit cards and debit cards and usage in Europe and US. In some countries (including the US), a credit card is a card that you pay at the end of the month. You have a statement and you have to pay for that statement. If you so choose you can pay less and pay at least the "minimum payment", in that case you pay interest rate on the remaining money. There are debit cards, with debit cards the amount is directly debited from your account as you use it. Then in a lot of European countries, we have cards that we call credit cards which are actually deferred debit cards. The money you've spent is debited from your account on a fixed date at the end of the month. You have a credit line in that until it's debited at the end of the month, you're effectively borrowing money but since it debits your account, you're expected to pay it in full. Often this is associated with overdraft facilities on the bank account which means that at the end of the month, if the money to pay the credit card bill is not your account, the account will be overdrawn and you will pay interest (which are similar to the interest rates for credit cards in the US, around 18%)... So, the European system with deferred debit cards is different but in practice has a bit of the same issues with overpaying and high interest rates. It's just that the credit line is tied to the bank account and not the credit card.

GordonS 10y ago
> in a lot of European countries, we have cards that we call credit cards which are actually deferred debit cards. The money you've spent is debited from your account on a fixed date at the end of the month Interesting, I'm in the UK and have never heard of this kind of card.
- FooBarWidget 10y ago
  I am in the Netherlands and this is exactly how all of my credit cards work. I have never seen a credit card that does not work this way.
  - gpvos 10y ago
    For both credit cards issued by ING you can choose to pay only partly at the end of the month, and have revolving credit. Most people don't choose this though, as far as I know. I didn't check the other banks.

muninn_ 10y ago

I've see a lot of comments about credit cards and people mentioning stuff like it's better to use a debit card and to "pay the balance off in full each month", but you are absolutely incorrect. Now it is true, obviously, that you should pay the balance off in full every month, not doing so is how the credit card companies make money, but using your credit card is nearly universally better Jan debit for two reasons: 1. At least in the US, you receive cash back for using a credit card. As an example, many cards offer 1-2% straight up cash back. Even if you used it in the most inefficient manner, such as just getting the cash back instead of discounted airfare or something, that's a lifetime of saving 1-2% on all your purchases. That's huge. 2. Protection. It's simple. If I use a card and get scammed (mostly happening in Europe I might add), then if I used a debit card it is my money that has been stolen and now I have to get it back. If I use the credit card? It's the banks money. Now I know obviously that there are people who don't pay their bills, lose their job, or whatever and that's how the companies make money, and maybe if we all used cash things would be cheaper or something, but unless there is a serious movement in that direction you should always use a credit card, even the most basic one you can. I'll also mention that this doesn't cover the plethora of various benefits that you can use for different cards: automatic extension of warranties on purchases made with credit cards, automatic rental car insurance, etc....

zapu 10y ago
In Europe, it's much easier to get debit than credit. You get debit card for any bank account you own, and sometimes it will even be free of charge. Even for accounts in different currency than your local one. Functionally, it's not much different than credit - you can pay on the internet, pay in all the stores, use in ATM. Why bother with applying for credit card, then (for most people)? It used to be different though, for example 10+ years ago I couldn't pay on the internet with my debit card, it had to be credit card - we called them "convex cards" because of the "raised" numbers on the card instead of just flat-printed card number.
- muninn_ 10y ago
  In the US a debit card is free and standard for any checking or savings account. It's functionally the same, yes, in the sense they are just plastic cards that perform transactions, but as I mentioned in my post there's a big difference in the financial impact. I won't pretend to know the rules, regulations, etc in Europe for credit cards, but when I traveled there I used my cards for everything and only had a problem once with CaptaineTrain booking a train ticket. With one of my cards I get 3% cash back on dining. So while I'm traveling throughout Europe I'm getting 3% off every meal. If you're paying in cash you're still paying full price. Soooo why pay in cash and not get a 3% discount. I've also noticed recently that Yelp is offering discounts when people link their credit card in their Yelp account. I saw something like 7% off of your meal for doing so at one restaurant. Now I haven't done that yet, I'm still considering the privacy implications, but it is there. In the US at least, and I suspect Europe, you should use a credit card for every single purchase.

losteverything 10y ago

I recall my mother making a purchase over $50 (fancy dress clothing) and the store had to call in for approval. When did magnetic stripes and swiping become mainstream? How about calling cards. I believe I sat across from the man who "invented " the calling card as we knew it.

webmaven 10y ago

I am a bit surprised at the amount of credit (pun unintended) given here to Simmons, completely ignoring the contributions of Dee Hock[0] who started the BankAmeriCard[1] revolving credit system that later became Visa. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dee_Hock https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dee_Hock [1] http://about.bankofamerica.com/en-us/our-story/birth-of-modern-credit-card.html http://about.bankofamerica.com/en-us/our-story/birth-of-mode...