8 ms·

Someone Created a Startup Just like Mine and Here Is Why That Is Awesome

176 points by jv22222 10y ago

flippyhead 10y ago
I've been in this situation myself and this as mature response. Still, it's hard to square using the word "stole" with the sentiments in the article.
rudolf0 10y ago
"Stole" seems like a big stretch. It seems just as likely he's had this idea for a while, and registered just to check out his soon-to-be competition.
- jv22222 10y ago
  Don't you think it's a bit unlikely that the wording of the opportunity would be exactly the same unless he had used my mechanical turk hit process? Seems unlikely that could happen in the scenario you describe.
  - rudolf0 10y ago
    That's true, the MTurk questions he asked are very similar. It could maybe be coincidental, since that's basically the default things you'd ask someone when trying to understand pain points and product ideas, but I do see your point since it seems like it's the same 4 questions.
    - jv22222 10y ago
      For comparison: Mine: I work in the eCommerce/re-seller business. In particular I sell products on Amazon. Specifically Amazon FBA. As my business is scaling up it is becoming more difficult to keep track of what we scoured for product in the field and the costs associated with it. Tracking COGS and the sources to monitor and report would be great. The software would need to be something mobile so I can put in the costs, source of product and expected profits. It would also need to be linked to Amazon. Yes I would pay for this software. Theirs: I sell vinyl records on eBay, Amazon, Discogs, and Etsy. I find it time-consuming to list products on each of these different sites. Software that facilitated the listing and cross-listing of products would save me time and make me more money because I have far too much product on hand and not enough time to list it. Ideally the software could automatically pull info from one listing on one site and populate the other sites for me. I would pay a monthly service fee for this.
      - misterhtmlcss 10y ago
        It's also possible he had the a related idea, saw yours, felt that it validated his thinking, then mostly stole your content and personalized it to himself.... however who knows what he'll do next. He could have done all those things just to get started because it was easier, now he could end up tweaking and refining it over the next month or so into something that may not even closely resemble your vision any more. I've literally ripped a the summary i found from someone else's LinkedIn summary, tweaked (personalized for moi) it, published it because it was way better than mine and then over the ensuing week tweaked it again and again to the point that it didn't even resemble the original in any way. It just provided the foundation for moving in my own direction. Essentially i used that person's inspiration and came up with my own totally unique interpretation. This guy could be doing that too. Good link bait though. Not classy, but good for sure.
      - sushid 10y ago
        Look, you're clearly very bitter about this. You should think about what you're doing for a minute and decide whether this is good PR. If you think he's copying your MTurk generated ideas, go ahead and call him out. Don't write up a "competition is great" and "we're getting along well over the phone" nonsense. You're not buying it, we're not buying it. What I recommend is you take the high road. As in don't dox your user base and keep on improving your product. For what it's worth, you sitting on this until he paraphrased more than two email (e.g. like 10+) and then posting a "competition is okay, but plagiarism is not" article would have fared much better.
  - louisswiss 10y ago
    in this case surely he has 'stolen'/adapted/taken inspiration from your operations not the idea? I am a big fan of anybody who manages to push a project into production, so the last thing in the World I want to do is be demeaning about somebody's project - nonetheless, I imagine at least one person has 'invented' a similar version of this idea every month for the past few years at least. Luckily, it is operating that separates the wheat from the chaff.
amelius 10y ago
In my ideal world, it wouldn't matter what ideas companies have. All that matters is the "needs" of customers, and they would publish them so companies can build products/services to satisfy them.
- EveSmith 10y ago
  | In my ideal world, it wouldn't matter what ideas companies have. All that matters is the "needs" of customers your "ideal world" is actually (surprisingly) the world of free market capitalism. You see, most "free market" "private sector" types base their views on microeconomics, "let the market decide" what "the market clearing price" is, there will be no shortages, price gouging is a signal to competitors and new market entrants... But they forget that microeconomic theory is entirely based on some assumptions and axioms, one of which is "perfect (symmetric) information", buyers, sellers, competitors, and investors are assumed to all share the same information, no secrets, and without that openness, the market will never find the market clearing price. creating wealth is not the raison d'etre of free market capitalism; cheap and abundant goods and services for consumers is
  - amelius 10y ago
    > your "ideal world" is actually (surprisingly) the world of free market capitalism I don't think this is true. In this world, companies keep business ideas for themselves, so they can try to be first to market, which is more important than almost anything else (even to a large extent product quality). On the other hand, potential customers don't ever publish their needs, they just don't seem to know what they want until somebody tells it to them.
    - EveSmith 10y ago
      1. I completely understand what you mean. You missed a "higher level" point I was making. 2. in this world, companies keep business ideas for themselves and customers don't publish their needs 3. in this world (where companies keep ideas for themselves and customers don't publish needs) we also have websites like HN where libertarians tell us about the glories of free-market capitalism because it creates both wealth and cool new innovations if only the govt would get out of the way 4. they justify their beliefs on the bedrock foundation of microeconomic ideals and point to Silicon Valley unicorns as the apotheosis of free market capitalism 5. I'm simply pointing out that the assumptions of microeconomic theory entail a good bit of-what-I-will-call "informational socialist ideal assumptions" that are incompatible with disruptive unicorn wealth creation, and where you point to unicorns I see "market failures" (that's microeconomics for the failure of a market, not the failure of companies within the market) 6. The ideal you talked about is compatible with the idealized assumptions of microeconomics, and if free market champions were championing actual free market microeconomics, we would have something closer to your ideal. 7. To put it a different way: Nobody talks about the dry cleaner/auto repair shop etc. "being first to market" or keeping their product mix a secret, and life is good the way most people earn their livings. We don't need to rig our economic system to be friendly to Bill Gates getting rich, he never did anything innovative except monopolize a microcomputer revolution that was already happening. 8. Innovation would still take place (more!) as Zuck, Gates, Jobs, Brin... they'd have been perfectly happy walking away with $50 million. The billions represent damage to our economy. 9. This is not my opinion or personal ethics. This a bedrock of microeconomics, dead weight loss.
tetek 10y ago
Is 4 questions really your business value?
dugmartin 10y ago
Justin, I think you should rename the post "Someone created a startup just like mine and here is why that is awesome".
- traviswingo 10y ago
  +1 here. Don't take these things so personally, and don't be so quick to assume someone is personally after you (yeah, I saw your "my site is down because I'm probably being DDOSd by this dude" comment). It's like getting mad that you like woodworking and publish your projects online and then someone else decides to take up woodworking and publish their projects online. Your article is both resentful and positive...I'd edit it to be more positive about the validity of what you're doing and not publicly bash this individual for getting excited enough to do the same.
  - boaticus 10y ago
    You mention edit. That brings up another interesting discussion.... After posting to HN, is it okay to edit the title and change the tone of the piece a bit at this point? How does that "look"? Is there precedent on HN for such edits? I've seen it done effectively elsewhere. Personally, I like when the dialog continues, I like to see an article writer evolve his position after taking time to listen to, and fully grok the feedback he's getting. But, is that just me?
- jv22222 10y ago
  Ok, so how can I do that? I think it's going to change the actual link of the blog... and then this submission here will go dead? Any advice on how to technically change it but keep the HN submission live?
  - sah2ed 10y ago
    You can always email the mods to help out: hn@ycombinator.com
    - dang 10y ago
the-dude 10y ago
Your idea was not stolen, you still have it. He might have copied it, but you can't be sure.
- the-dude 10y ago
  Oh, and publicising user-activity data about a specific user? No Nugget for me ever.
  - the-dude 10y ago
    https://nugget.one/privacy https://nugget.one/privacy Right.
    - haldean 10y ago
      > We may release personal information when we believe in good faith that release is necessary to comply with a law; to enforce or apply our Terms of Use and other policies; or to protect the rights, property, or safety of Nugget, our employees, our users, or others. @jv22222: in your opinion, does this blog post fall under any of these categories? And if not, why bother having a privacy policy at all?
      - poikniok 10y ago
        Is it possible to take legal action against Nugget in this situation?
  - the-dude 10y ago
    Nugget dude now has completely blurred the email. That was not the point dude, you are still identifiying him in the blog post and showing your spy log on him. The whole post is in bad taste. Epic failure.
kamalkishor1991 10y ago
Site is not working "Error establishing a database connection"
- cube00 10y ago
  http://web.archive.org/web/20170215162826/https://blog.nugget.one/upstart/someone-stole-my-startup-idea-and-why-it-doesnt-matter/ http://web.archive.org/web/20170215162826/https://blog.nugge...
BatFastard 10y ago
The sound of inevitability. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIbEj1CIpuU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIbEj1CIpuU Every idea has multiple people who are considering it at around the same time. And rarely people act on it, because giving birth to new idea's can be like a 9 year gestation period. Not for the faint of heart. Personally I know when I see someone who is also executing on an idea that I have had, I subscribe to them, just to keep up.
- jv22222 10y ago
  Please compare the ideas that are sent out. There is a quantifiable similarity that can only have resulted from him using the same hit process as mine. That level of similarity can't happen by serendipity. But, as I mentioned in the post, it doesn't matter. Competition is good. Mine: I work in the eCommerce/re-seller business. In particular I sell products on Amazon. Specifically Amazon FBA. As my business is scaling up it is becoming more difficult to keep track of what we scoured for product in the field and the costs associated with it. Tracking COGS and the sources to monitor and report would be great. The software would need to be something mobile so I can put in the costs, source of product and expected profits. It would also need to be linked to Amazon. Yes I would pay for this software. Theirs: I sell vinyl records on eBay, Amazon, Discogs, and Etsy. I find it time-consuming to list products on each of these different sites. Software that facilitated the listing and cross-listing of products would save me time and make me more money because I have far too much product on hand and not enough time to list it. Ideally the software could automatically pull info from one listing on one site and populate the other sites for me. I would pay a monthly service fee for this.
  - prdonahue 10y ago
    How many (more) times are you going to repaste this in this thread?
  - runako 10y ago
    <Problem Summary> <Problem Detail> <Solution Outline> <Whether/How Much $ It's Worth To a Customer> I wonder what's the earliest copyright date on a business-plan book that contains this exact format for validating business ideas.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
miguelrochefort 10y ago
This is ridiculous. When your target demographic is composed of people desperate for startup ideas, you should expect this to happen. There is no shortage of ideas. Those who succeed at this game already have more ideas than they have ambition. Those who would use a service like yours are not likely to succeed.
cdiamand 10y ago
Hey Cory from Opps Daily here! Just want to preface this by saying Nugget.one is an incredible product that essentially inspired Opps Daily. I signed up for your product shortly before new years, trying to figure out what kind of venture I would launch in the New Year. I'm always struggling to find good software ideas, so your service seemed great. But it stopped after about a week and there was a hefty price tag to keep getting these ideas. I just wanted ideas, not the community, so I figured out how you were getting the ideas and started getting them for myself. A few days later it became clear that I should start Opps Daily because there is incredible potential to help solve problems. Anyways, just writing in to say I find your service pretty inspiring although I'm not trying to build a community to launch Saas products, but more of community where people learn about problems others are having and connect with those people. I've actually sent a few people your way when they mentioned my emails lacked the analysis they were looking for. Anyways, Im sorry if you feel like I stole something from you, I'm always singing your praises when someone mentions the similarity. I'd love for you to drop me a line if you ever want to compare notes! :)
- jv22222 10y ago
  Hey Cory, nice response, thanks :) Sure, I'll send you an email and let's hook up and have a chat I have some thoughts about your vault idea. On another note, I'm really curious to know how are the ideas worded in such a similar way. Were you inspired by my HIT process? No worries if yes, it will just help to clear things up. Thanks, Justin
  - cdiamand 10y ago
    Yeah, I essentially reverse engineered your email. "What question would I ask to elicit this response". It was just such a compelling format, you really nailed it. I never saw the actual questions you asked, although I wished I had it would have saved me several bad batches :) Also, fwiw I'm going to try and move away from Mechanical Turk soon, its good for a volume of responses, but I'm sure as you're aware most of the quality is low and you really have to filter.
- desireco42 10y ago
ikeboy 10y ago
1. Why would a business owner with money to spend be using Mturk to make pennies? 2. The FBA problem has been solved by Inventory Lab. 3. Regardless of the tone of OP, publishing any user data is bad.
cocktailpeanuts 10y ago
It may not matter what happened. But it does matter that you decided to publicly out him. This is very petty and as a user i would feel betrayed of my privacy. You could have actually taken advantage of this and wrote a completely different blog post and people would have appreciated it, but this feels too petty. Even when you say it doesn't matter and all the diplomatic cliche saying competition is good, it just doesn't feel right because I can sense the bitterness in every word. It's not like this guy was freelancing for you telling you he's going to build your idea and one day suddenly he launched it as his own. You already have a service out there. It's public domain. You can't "steal" an idea that's already out there.
- desireco42 10y ago
  I kind of felt the same when I read this, going through analytics etc. I for one don't think it is trivial to steal someones idea, but also response was a little bit too much.
  - louisswiss 10y ago
    do we 'own' ideas? Before I started a company, I probably would have said yes. After a few years in the startup world, I'm not so sure anymore. There is, after all, a reason why inventions are patentable and ideas aren't. Execution is king.
    - k__ 10y ago
      I mean, even if you don't did a startup, you will notice that you have ideas you told nobody and they get still executed by someone.
    - desireco42 10y ago
      In a way we do. Investors are pushing story that ideas are not worth anything. Of course they are, otherwise those studios they set-up would just crank out hit after hit, because they can design that business perfectly.
- HashHishBang 10y ago
AznHisoka 10y ago
Nobody stole anything. There is no secret sauce here. Just something that could easily be reproduced in a weekend.
joeax 10y ago
If someone "steals" your startup idea, it is probably a good idea to begin with. I'd be ecstatic that the idea has been validated. Over the years I've met developers and others who've talked about how they have a great idea, but then they Googled their idea and someone is already doing it. My response is always "so". Either analyze the deficiencies in their product and do it better, or find a new twist or angle to a concept that has never been tried.
dd112 10y ago
I get the whole "slack welcoming Microsoft"[0] vibe from this post. Welcoming the competition in a tongue in cheek kind of way can be a clever marketing ploy sometimes although it's very rarely executed successfully. I think whatever you were trying to achieve with this went out the window when you released user activity information. The post is sprinkled with resentment which I don't think reflects the best on your business. Competition, for the most part, is healthy. It validates that there is a market. Many successful businesses are created this way. The competition may/may not execute the idea better, but if they do then at least you know you have room for improvement. If they don't, well then that only strengthens your position as the front runner. If it's a complete carbon copy, then it's usually survival of the fittest with who can obtain the most exposure. Don't get me wrong, I understand why you would be frustrated - it's never easy when a direct competitor pops up that can threaten the success of your business just as you're getting established (especially when you're emotionally and financially invested in it), but I think you're going to look back at this and realise exposing the competition this way really wasn't beneficial for you. Regardless, keep your chin up. Don't let these types of things get you down - use it as a driving force to continue to improve and grow! [0] https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-slacks-full-page-ad-new-york-times-epic-fail-justin-bariso https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-slacks-full-page-ad-new-y...
louisswiss 10y ago
This is a great example of why you should give yourself some time to cool off before reacting to something that has upset you. I'm sure Justin is a perfectly nice guy, but by ignoring user privacy and (in my opinion) going a bit over the top with his rhetoric he has left me with a needlessly sour aftertaste which could have been avoided with a clear head.
- aarondf 10y ago
  Totally agreed. Also a good reason to let other people review your controversial posts before you publish them. I've always been kind of annoyed by pg's "Thanks to [these 8 influencers] for reviewing early versions of this article" footnotes, but I think it's valuable. (Annoyed because it feels like namedropping. That's my bias though, not his problem.)
  - refrigerator 10y ago
    You've perfectly summed up my thoughts on pg's (and increasingly other people) "acknowledgements" in articles - thanks.
buildly 10y ago
IMO it's certainly a neat story; "I signed up looking for inspiration." Boom! Success; inspiration acquired!
thunderstrike 10y ago
The fact that you published his data from your service, mainly because of your unhappiness about him working on his own service, is unacceptable.
no1youknowz 10y ago
I haven't seen this answered, I genuinely want to know where the line is. Lets say there is competitor A, they have a SaaS application. Developer looks at that and says, "that can be done in a weekend". So he does it. Scenario 1. He uses the same HTML, CSS and jQuery to base his application on. His SaaS application behaves exactly as theirs. His backend code is unique to him. Scenario 2. He uses unique HTML, CSS and jQuery to base his application, but it looks the exact same. His SaaS application behaves exactly as theirs. His backend code is unique to him. Scenario 3. He uses unique HTML, CSS and jQuery to base his application, unique to him. His SaaS application behaves in a unique way but achieves the same result as theirs. His backend code is unique to him. Under which scenario will he get sued and which scenario is he untouchable? I was watching Dragons Den CA and Michelle Romanow said that "Copying was ok". Where is the line, which scenario can the Competitor claim copyright to their works? Has anyone faced this situation? Thanks
- louisswiss 10y ago
  In all three scenarios you can be sued. Whether it sticks or not is a different matter and depends on a lot of different things.
  - no1youknowz 10y ago
    What type of things exactly? Edit. I find it interesting you say all 3 scenarios when the 3rd one is all unique code. For example. If we look at behavioral marketing. mouseflow hotjar navilytics fullstory crazyegg + im sure there is more. What you are saying, is that any of these guys could sue each other? For what, copying the same idea and executing it?
    - louisswiss 10y ago
      IANAL but imo copying an idea isn't enough for anything to stick in court (as if it would get that far).
- ryandrake 10y ago
  Not a lawyer, but I don't think anything can prevent one from being sued. Anyone could sue you today without even needing a reason. They might not win, but often (especially in "intellectual property") the goal isn't to win--it's to make your opponent spend to defend and drain his wallet.
uladzislau 10y ago
Now I'm expecting 5 more startups based on the same idea because it looks like a market with very low barrier to entry and based on OP reaction quite significant ROI.
andy_ppp 10y ago
I've never had a problem coming up with interesting ideas! It's actually launching something that's the most difficult problem; a startup helping with that could work, anyone know of one?
- RepressedEmu 10y ago
  I'm working on a service called Protolaunch that does exactly that. You get help finding your ideal customers, a custom landing page optimized for conversions, and a digital marketing strategy to promote your brand and grow your email list of future customers. Getting market feedback and validation has always been the single best motivation to finish an MVP or business project for me personally and Protolaunch aims to make it a one step "pre-launch" process. I'd love to get your thoughts and feedback!
  - andy_ppp 10y ago
    What I need is someone to stop me doing stupid things like dockerising the whole build process rather than concentrating on core functionality. Learned a lot, but it doesn't help me get my business launched.
    - RepressedEmu 10y ago
      If you've started on the MVP then you definitely know enough to Pre-Launch and start building momentum behind your business. The problem is doing all the research and execution for a successful Pre-Launch can be a big time-suck(dozens of hours) that takes away time that can be better spent from working on your critical code.
  - fenwick67 10y ago
    Somebody needs to make an automated workflow that just takes ideas from Nugget, forwards them to Protolaunch to pick the best ideas. Then, it could just procedurally generate a company name and logo (lowercase white letter on a rounded rectangle), reserve the domain name, file the FTC paperwork, and send automated emails to venture capitalists. Then just watch the money roll in.
levthedev 10y ago
I'm pretty disappointed in this blog post. Besides the weird privacy violations that Justin committed in making this post, it also baffles me that he thinks someone 'stole' his startup idea. You can't steal something that no one owns - Nugget did not patent this idea, did not invent it, and is not even the first 'Startup Ideas' newsletter (I'm subscribed to 4). I was considering paying for Nugget, but now there's no chance.
ninjabeans 10y ago
He sources startup ideas from Mechanical Turk?
ziikutv 10y ago
You basically violated his privacy, talking about when he signed up etc. I wonder if this was an attempt at virtue signaling (by making yourself seem untouched by him copying) or calling someone out; kind of pretentious. You even tries to have another jab by asking him about his email procedure; trying to make him look bad. Edit: I just wanted to point this out as an example of how much of CJ this community is. Everyone touts the same principles, but rarely follow them. Simply reading PG's essays is not enough. Regardless, thanks for the read.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
andy_ppp 10y ago
Okay here is a startup idea; I'll do office hours with you (via Skype or in person if you are in London) once per week to keep you honest, in exchange I ask that you do the same. My email is in my profile, feel free to say Hi!
mathgenius 10y ago
I'm having a hard time understanding how a bunch of mechanical turkers could come up with SaaS ideas. "I am finance officer for a startup ..." How is a finance officer for a startup going to end up on mturk doing HITs? What am I missing...
jshmrsn 10y ago
This appears to be a clear violation of your own privacy policy. https://nugget.one/privacy https://nugget.one/privacy "Sharing Your Information Rest assured that we neither rent nor sell your personal information to anyone and that we will share your personal information only as described below. Nugget Personnel: Nugget personnel and authorized consultants and/or contractors may have access to user information if necessary in the normal course of Nugget business. Protection of Nugget and Others: We may release personal information when we believe in good faith that release is necessary to comply with a law; to enforce or apply our Terms of Use and other policies; or to protect the rights, property, or safety of Nugget, our employees, our users, or others. This includes exchanging information with other companies and organizations for fraud protection and credit risk reduction."
unimpressive 10y ago
For another take on the whole 'violated his users privacy': When you control a service like this it's very easy to forget that while it's casual and normal for you to be able to see peoples information, to other people this is an awesome responsibility you've been entrusted with. Especially since it probably doesn't come up very often until it does, but by that point the cat is out of the bag. To help prevent a normalization of deviance, you should put in some kind of mechanism to remind yourself that customer data is private and handling it should be treated with extreme care. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalization_of_deviance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalization_of_deviance
jrs235 10y ago
Cory will get to post "How a competitor blindly thinking I was evil and trying to smear me helped my startup take off!" Anyways, while the tone and content of this specific blog post is questionable and sub-par, I find many of Justin's other blog posts to be interesting. Don't worry Justin, you'll be able to write a post after Cory does titled: "How I mistakenly accused a competitor of being evil led to market validation that ended up helping us both!"
asadkn 10y ago
The lesson here seems to not publicly share your trade secrets if the barrier to entry in the market are too low. Even if the idea is out there, holding off on behind-the-scenes execution details is a good idea. While most people have enough ego and morals to do their own thing, there are many out there looking for easy ideas and methods to imitate. They like to call it inspiration which is a self-serving label to an otherwise immoral action.
poikniok 10y ago
I am glad you did such a great job at outing yourself for having no ethics, and also some sort of insecurity and bitterness, it makes it easy to remember to never do any business or be involved in any way with you. Thanks for the enlightening blog post!
- dang 10y ago
  Whoa—personal attacks, which this is, are not allowed on HN. When someone makes a mistake, admits it, and takes steps to correct it, we should acknowledge the good in that. Everybody finds themselves in such a situation at some point, and I'm sure you wouldn't like to be piled on this way. We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13654684 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13654684 and marked it off-topic.

176 points by jv22222 10y ago

I've been in this situation myself and this as mature response. Still, it's hard to square using the word "stole" with the sentiments in the article.

rudolf0 10y ago

"Stole" seems like a big stretch. It seems just as likely he's had this idea for a while, and registered just to check out his soon-to-be competition.

jv22222 10y ago
Don't you think it's a bit unlikely that the wording of the opportunity would be exactly the same unless he had used my mechanical turk hit process? Seems unlikely that could happen in the scenario you describe.
- rudolf0 10y ago
  That's true, the MTurk questions he asked are very similar. It could maybe be coincidental, since that's basically the default things you'd ask someone when trying to understand pain points and product ideas, but I do see your point since it seems like it's the same 4 questions.
  - jv22222 10y ago
    For comparison: Mine: I work in the eCommerce/re-seller business. In particular I sell products on Amazon. Specifically Amazon FBA. As my business is scaling up it is becoming more difficult to keep track of what we scoured for product in the field and the costs associated with it. Tracking COGS and the sources to monitor and report would be great. The software would need to be something mobile so I can put in the costs, source of product and expected profits. It would also need to be linked to Amazon. Yes I would pay for this software. Theirs: I sell vinyl records on eBay, Amazon, Discogs, and Etsy. I find it time-consuming to list products on each of these different sites. Software that facilitated the listing and cross-listing of products would save me time and make me more money because I have far too much product on hand and not enough time to list it. Ideally the software could automatically pull info from one listing on one site and populate the other sites for me. I would pay a monthly service fee for this.
    - misterhtmlcss 10y ago
      It's also possible he had the a related idea, saw yours, felt that it validated his thinking, then mostly stole your content and personalized it to himself.... however who knows what he'll do next. He could have done all those things just to get started because it was easier, now he could end up tweaking and refining it over the next month or so into something that may not even closely resemble your vision any more. I've literally ripped a the summary i found from someone else's LinkedIn summary, tweaked (personalized for moi) it, published it because it was way better than mine and then over the ensuing week tweaked it again and again to the point that it didn't even resemble the original in any way. It just provided the foundation for moving in my own direction. Essentially i used that person's inspiration and came up with my own totally unique interpretation. This guy could be doing that too. Good link bait though. Not classy, but good for sure.
    - sushid 10y ago
      Look, you're clearly very bitter about this. You should think about what you're doing for a minute and decide whether this is good PR. If you think he's copying your MTurk generated ideas, go ahead and call him out. Don't write up a "competition is great" and "we're getting along well over the phone" nonsense. You're not buying it, we're not buying it. What I recommend is you take the high road. As in don't dox your user base and keep on improving your product. For what it's worth, you sitting on this until he paraphrased more than two email (e.g. like 10+) and then posting a "competition is okay, but plagiarism is not" article would have fared much better.
- louisswiss 10y ago
  in this case surely he has 'stolen'/adapted/taken inspiration from your operations not the idea? I am a big fan of anybody who manages to push a project into production, so the last thing in the World I want to do is be demeaning about somebody's project - nonetheless, I imagine at least one person has 'invented' a similar version of this idea every month for the past few years at least. Luckily, it is operating that separates the wheat from the chaff.

amelius 10y ago

In my ideal world, it wouldn't matter what ideas companies have. All that matters is the "needs" of customers, and they would publish them so companies can build products/services to satisfy them.

EveSmith 10y ago
| In my ideal world, it wouldn't matter what ideas companies have. All that matters is the "needs" of customers your "ideal world" is actually (surprisingly) the world of free market capitalism. You see, most "free market" "private sector" types base their views on microeconomics, "let the market decide" what "the market clearing price" is, there will be no shortages, price gouging is a signal to competitors and new market entrants... But they forget that microeconomic theory is entirely based on some assumptions and axioms, one of which is "perfect (symmetric) information", buyers, sellers, competitors, and investors are assumed to all share the same information, no secrets, and without that openness, the market will never find the market clearing price. creating wealth is not the raison d'etre of free market capitalism; cheap and abundant goods and services for consumers is
- amelius 10y ago
  > your "ideal world" is actually (surprisingly) the world of free market capitalism I don't think this is true. In this world, companies keep business ideas for themselves, so they can try to be first to market, which is more important than almost anything else (even to a large extent product quality). On the other hand, potential customers don't ever publish their needs, they just don't seem to know what they want until somebody tells it to them.
  - EveSmith 10y ago
    1. I completely understand what you mean. You missed a "higher level" point I was making. 2. in this world, companies keep business ideas for themselves and customers don't publish their needs 3. in this world (where companies keep ideas for themselves and customers don't publish needs) we also have websites like HN where libertarians tell us about the glories of free-market capitalism because it creates both wealth and cool new innovations if only the govt would get out of the way 4. they justify their beliefs on the bedrock foundation of microeconomic ideals and point to Silicon Valley unicorns as the apotheosis of free market capitalism 5. I'm simply pointing out that the assumptions of microeconomic theory entail a good bit of-what-I-will-call "informational socialist ideal assumptions" that are incompatible with disruptive unicorn wealth creation, and where you point to unicorns I see "market failures" (that's microeconomics for the failure of a market, not the failure of companies within the market) 6. The ideal you talked about is compatible with the idealized assumptions of microeconomics, and if free market champions were championing actual free market microeconomics, we would have something closer to your ideal. 7. To put it a different way: Nobody talks about the dry cleaner/auto repair shop etc. "being first to market" or keeping their product mix a secret, and life is good the way most people earn their livings. We don't need to rig our economic system to be friendly to Bill Gates getting rich, he never did anything innovative except monopolize a microcomputer revolution that was already happening. 8. Innovation would still take place (more!) as Zuck, Gates, Jobs, Brin... they'd have been perfectly happy walking away with $50 million. The billions represent damage to our economy. 9. This is not my opinion or personal ethics. This a bedrock of microeconomics, dead weight loss.

tetek 10y ago

Is 4 questions really your business value?

dugmartin 10y ago

Justin, I think you should rename the post "Someone created a startup just like mine and here is why that is awesome".

traviswingo 10y ago
+1 here. Don't take these things so personally, and don't be so quick to assume someone is personally after you (yeah, I saw your "my site is down because I'm probably being DDOSd by this dude" comment). It's like getting mad that you like woodworking and publish your projects online and then someone else decides to take up woodworking and publish their projects online. Your article is both resentful and positive...I'd edit it to be more positive about the validity of what you're doing and not publicly bash this individual for getting excited enough to do the same.
- boaticus 10y ago
  You mention edit. That brings up another interesting discussion.... After posting to HN, is it okay to edit the title and change the tone of the piece a bit at this point? How does that "look"? Is there precedent on HN for such edits? I've seen it done effectively elsewhere. Personally, I like when the dialog continues, I like to see an article writer evolve his position after taking time to listen to, and fully grok the feedback he's getting. But, is that just me?
jv22222 10y ago
Ok, so how can I do that? I think it's going to change the actual link of the blog... and then this submission here will go dead? Any advice on how to technically change it but keep the HN submission live?
- sah2ed 10y ago
  You can always email the mods to help out: hn@ycombinator.com
  - dang 10y ago

the-dude 10y ago

Your idea was not stolen, you still have it. He might have copied it, but you can't be sure.

the-dude 10y ago
Oh, and publicising user-activity data about a specific user? No Nugget for me ever.
- the-dude 10y ago
  https://nugget.one/privacy https://nugget.one/privacy Right.
  - haldean 10y ago
    > We may release personal information when we believe in good faith that release is necessary to comply with a law; to enforce or apply our Terms of Use and other policies; or to protect the rights, property, or safety of Nugget, our employees, our users, or others. @jv22222: in your opinion, does this blog post fall under any of these categories? And if not, why bother having a privacy policy at all?
    - poikniok 10y ago
      Is it possible to take legal action against Nugget in this situation?
- the-dude 10y ago
  Nugget dude now has completely blurred the email. That was not the point dude, you are still identifiying him in the blog post and showing your spy log on him. The whole post is in bad taste. Epic failure.

kamalkishor1991 10y ago

Site is not working "Error establishing a database connection"

cube00 10y ago
http://web.archive.org/web/20170215162826/https://blog.nugget.one/upstart/someone-stole-my-startup-idea-and-why-it-doesnt-matter/ http://web.archive.org/web/20170215162826/https://blog.nugge...

BatFastard 10y ago

The sound of inevitability. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIbEj1CIpuU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIbEj1CIpuU Every idea has multiple people who are considering it at around the same time. And rarely people act on it, because giving birth to new idea's can be like a 9 year gestation period. Not for the faint of heart. Personally I know when I see someone who is also executing on an idea that I have had, I subscribe to them, just to keep up.

jv22222 10y ago
Please compare the ideas that are sent out. There is a quantifiable similarity that can only have resulted from him using the same hit process as mine. That level of similarity can't happen by serendipity. But, as I mentioned in the post, it doesn't matter. Competition is good. Mine: I work in the eCommerce/re-seller business. In particular I sell products on Amazon. Specifically Amazon FBA. As my business is scaling up it is becoming more difficult to keep track of what we scoured for product in the field and the costs associated with it. Tracking COGS and the sources to monitor and report would be great. The software would need to be something mobile so I can put in the costs, source of product and expected profits. It would also need to be linked to Amazon. Yes I would pay for this software. Theirs: I sell vinyl records on eBay, Amazon, Discogs, and Etsy. I find it time-consuming to list products on each of these different sites. Software that facilitated the listing and cross-listing of products would save me time and make me more money because I have far too much product on hand and not enough time to list it. Ideally the software could automatically pull info from one listing on one site and populate the other sites for me. I would pay a monthly service fee for this.
- prdonahue 10y ago
  How many (more) times are you going to repaste this in this thread?
- runako 10y ago
  <Problem Summary> <Problem Detail> <Solution Outline> <Whether/How Much $ It's Worth To a Customer> I wonder what's the earliest copyright date on a business-plan book that contains this exact format for validating business ideas.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

miguelrochefort 10y ago

This is ridiculous. When your target demographic is composed of people desperate for startup ideas, you should expect this to happen. There is no shortage of ideas. Those who succeed at this game already have more ideas than they have ambition. Those who would use a service like yours are not likely to succeed.

cdiamand 10y ago

Hey Cory from Opps Daily here! Just want to preface this by saying Nugget.one is an incredible product that essentially inspired Opps Daily. I signed up for your product shortly before new years, trying to figure out what kind of venture I would launch in the New Year. I'm always struggling to find good software ideas, so your service seemed great. But it stopped after about a week and there was a hefty price tag to keep getting these ideas. I just wanted ideas, not the community, so I figured out how you were getting the ideas and started getting them for myself. A few days later it became clear that I should start Opps Daily because there is incredible potential to help solve problems. Anyways, just writing in to say I find your service pretty inspiring although I'm not trying to build a community to launch Saas products, but more of community where people learn about problems others are having and connect with those people. I've actually sent a few people your way when they mentioned my emails lacked the analysis they were looking for. Anyways, Im sorry if you feel like I stole something from you, I'm always singing your praises when someone mentions the similarity. I'd love for you to drop me a line if you ever want to compare notes! :)

jv22222 10y ago
Hey Cory, nice response, thanks :) Sure, I'll send you an email and let's hook up and have a chat I have some thoughts about your vault idea. On another note, I'm really curious to know how are the ideas worded in such a similar way. Were you inspired by my HIT process? No worries if yes, it will just help to clear things up. Thanks, Justin
- cdiamand 10y ago
  Yeah, I essentially reverse engineered your email. "What question would I ask to elicit this response". It was just such a compelling format, you really nailed it. I never saw the actual questions you asked, although I wished I had it would have saved me several bad batches :) Also, fwiw I'm going to try and move away from Mechanical Turk soon, its good for a volume of responses, but I'm sure as you're aware most of the quality is low and you really have to filter.
desireco42 10y ago

ikeboy 10y ago

1. Why would a business owner with money to spend be using Mturk to make pennies? 2. The FBA problem has been solved by Inventory Lab. 3. Regardless of the tone of OP, publishing any user data is bad.

cocktailpeanuts 10y ago

It may not matter what happened. But it does matter that you decided to publicly out him. This is very petty and as a user i would feel betrayed of my privacy. You could have actually taken advantage of this and wrote a completely different blog post and people would have appreciated it, but this feels too petty. Even when you say it doesn't matter and all the diplomatic cliche saying competition is good, it just doesn't feel right because I can sense the bitterness in every word. It's not like this guy was freelancing for you telling you he's going to build your idea and one day suddenly he launched it as his own. You already have a service out there. It's public domain. You can't "steal" an idea that's already out there.

desireco42 10y ago
I kind of felt the same when I read this, going through analytics etc. I for one don't think it is trivial to steal someones idea, but also response was a little bit too much.
- louisswiss 10y ago
  do we 'own' ideas? Before I started a company, I probably would have said yes. After a few years in the startup world, I'm not so sure anymore. There is, after all, a reason why inventions are patentable and ideas aren't. Execution is king.
  - k__ 10y ago
    I mean, even if you don't did a startup, you will notice that you have ideas you told nobody and they get still executed by someone.
  - desireco42 10y ago
    In a way we do. Investors are pushing story that ideas are not worth anything. Of course they are, otherwise those studios they set-up would just crank out hit after hit, because they can design that business perfectly.
HashHishBang 10y ago

AznHisoka 10y ago

Nobody stole anything. There is no secret sauce here. Just something that could easily be reproduced in a weekend.

joeax 10y ago

If someone "steals" your startup idea, it is probably a good idea to begin with. I'd be ecstatic that the idea has been validated. Over the years I've met developers and others who've talked about how they have a great idea, but then they Googled their idea and someone is already doing it. My response is always "so". Either analyze the deficiencies in their product and do it better, or find a new twist or angle to a concept that has never been tried.

dd112 10y ago

I get the whole "slack welcoming Microsoft"[0] vibe from this post. Welcoming the competition in a tongue in cheek kind of way can be a clever marketing ploy sometimes although it's very rarely executed successfully. I think whatever you were trying to achieve with this went out the window when you released user activity information. The post is sprinkled with resentment which I don't think reflects the best on your business. Competition, for the most part, is healthy. It validates that there is a market. Many successful businesses are created this way. The competition may/may not execute the idea better, but if they do then at least you know you have room for improvement. If they don't, well then that only strengthens your position as the front runner. If it's a complete carbon copy, then it's usually survival of the fittest with who can obtain the most exposure. Don't get me wrong, I understand why you would be frustrated - it's never easy when a direct competitor pops up that can threaten the success of your business just as you're getting established (especially when you're emotionally and financially invested in it), but I think you're going to look back at this and realise exposing the competition this way really wasn't beneficial for you. Regardless, keep your chin up. Don't let these types of things get you down - use it as a driving force to continue to improve and grow! [0] https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-slacks-full-page-ad-new-york-times-epic-fail-justin-bariso https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-slacks-full-page-ad-new-y...

louisswiss 10y ago

This is a great example of why you should give yourself some time to cool off before reacting to something that has upset you. I'm sure Justin is a perfectly nice guy, but by ignoring user privacy and (in my opinion) going a bit over the top with his rhetoric he has left me with a needlessly sour aftertaste which could have been avoided with a clear head.

aarondf 10y ago
Totally agreed. Also a good reason to let other people review your controversial posts before you publish them. I've always been kind of annoyed by pg's "Thanks to [these 8 influencers] for reviewing early versions of this article" footnotes, but I think it's valuable. (Annoyed because it feels like namedropping. That's my bias though, not his problem.)
- refrigerator 10y ago
  You've perfectly summed up my thoughts on pg's (and increasingly other people) "acknowledgements" in articles - thanks.

buildly 10y ago

IMO it's certainly a neat story; "I signed up looking for inspiration." Boom! Success; inspiration acquired!

thunderstrike 10y ago

The fact that you published his data from your service, mainly because of your unhappiness about him working on his own service, is unacceptable.

no1youknowz 10y ago

I haven't seen this answered, I genuinely want to know where the line is. Lets say there is competitor A, they have a SaaS application. Developer looks at that and says, "that can be done in a weekend". So he does it. Scenario 1. He uses the same HTML, CSS and jQuery to base his application on. His SaaS application behaves exactly as theirs. His backend code is unique to him. Scenario 2. He uses unique HTML, CSS and jQuery to base his application, but it looks the exact same. His SaaS application behaves exactly as theirs. His backend code is unique to him. Scenario 3. He uses unique HTML, CSS and jQuery to base his application, unique to him. His SaaS application behaves in a unique way but achieves the same result as theirs. His backend code is unique to him. Under which scenario will he get sued and which scenario is he untouchable? I was watching Dragons Den CA and Michelle Romanow said that "Copying was ok". Where is the line, which scenario can the Competitor claim copyright to their works? Has anyone faced this situation? Thanks

louisswiss 10y ago
In all three scenarios you can be sued. Whether it sticks or not is a different matter and depends on a lot of different things.
- no1youknowz 10y ago
  What type of things exactly? Edit. I find it interesting you say all 3 scenarios when the 3rd one is all unique code. For example. If we look at behavioral marketing. mouseflow hotjar navilytics fullstory crazyegg + im sure there is more. What you are saying, is that any of these guys could sue each other? For what, copying the same idea and executing it?
  - louisswiss 10y ago
    IANAL but imo copying an idea isn't enough for anything to stick in court (as if it would get that far).
ryandrake 10y ago
Not a lawyer, but I don't think anything can prevent one from being sued. Anyone could sue you today without even needing a reason. They might not win, but often (especially in "intellectual property") the goal isn't to win--it's to make your opponent spend to defend and drain his wallet.

uladzislau 10y ago

Now I'm expecting 5 more startups based on the same idea because it looks like a market with very low barrier to entry and based on OP reaction quite significant ROI.

andy_ppp 10y ago

I've never had a problem coming up with interesting ideas! It's actually launching something that's the most difficult problem; a startup helping with that could work, anyone know of one?

RepressedEmu 10y ago
I'm working on a service called Protolaunch that does exactly that. You get help finding your ideal customers, a custom landing page optimized for conversions, and a digital marketing strategy to promote your brand and grow your email list of future customers. Getting market feedback and validation has always been the single best motivation to finish an MVP or business project for me personally and Protolaunch aims to make it a one step "pre-launch" process. I'd love to get your thoughts and feedback!
- andy_ppp 10y ago
  What I need is someone to stop me doing stupid things like dockerising the whole build process rather than concentrating on core functionality. Learned a lot, but it doesn't help me get my business launched.
  - RepressedEmu 10y ago
    If you've started on the MVP then you definitely know enough to Pre-Launch and start building momentum behind your business. The problem is doing all the research and execution for a successful Pre-Launch can be a big time-suck(dozens of hours) that takes away time that can be better spent from working on your critical code.
- fenwick67 10y ago
  Somebody needs to make an automated workflow that just takes ideas from Nugget, forwards them to Protolaunch to pick the best ideas. Then, it could just procedurally generate a company name and logo (lowercase white letter on a rounded rectangle), reserve the domain name, file the FTC paperwork, and send automated emails to venture capitalists. Then just watch the money roll in.

levthedev 10y ago

I'm pretty disappointed in this blog post. Besides the weird privacy violations that Justin committed in making this post, it also baffles me that he thinks someone 'stole' his startup idea. You can't steal something that no one owns - Nugget did not patent this idea, did not invent it, and is not even the first 'Startup Ideas' newsletter (I'm subscribed to 4). I was considering paying for Nugget, but now there's no chance.

ninjabeans 10y ago

He sources startup ideas from Mechanical Turk?

ziikutv 10y ago

You basically violated his privacy, talking about when he signed up etc. I wonder if this was an attempt at virtue signaling (by making yourself seem untouched by him copying) or calling someone out; kind of pretentious. You even tries to have another jab by asking him about his email procedure; trying to make him look bad. Edit: I just wanted to point this out as an example of how much of CJ this community is. Everyone touts the same principles, but rarely follow them. Simply reading PG's essays is not enough. Regardless, thanks for the read.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

andy_ppp 10y ago

Okay here is a startup idea; I'll do office hours with you (via Skype or in person if you are in London) once per week to keep you honest, in exchange I ask that you do the same. My email is in my profile, feel free to say Hi!

mathgenius 10y ago

I'm having a hard time understanding how a bunch of mechanical turkers could come up with SaaS ideas. "I am finance officer for a startup ..." How is a finance officer for a startup going to end up on mturk doing HITs? What am I missing...

jshmrsn 10y ago

This appears to be a clear violation of your own privacy policy. https://nugget.one/privacy https://nugget.one/privacy "Sharing Your Information Rest assured that we neither rent nor sell your personal information to anyone and that we will share your personal information only as described below. Nugget Personnel: Nugget personnel and authorized consultants and/or contractors may have access to user information if necessary in the normal course of Nugget business. Protection of Nugget and Others: We may release personal information when we believe in good faith that release is necessary to comply with a law; to enforce or apply our Terms of Use and other policies; or to protect the rights, property, or safety of Nugget, our employees, our users, or others. This includes exchanging information with other companies and organizations for fraud protection and credit risk reduction."

unimpressive 10y ago

For another take on the whole 'violated his users privacy': When you control a service like this it's very easy to forget that while it's casual and normal for you to be able to see peoples information, to other people this is an awesome responsibility you've been entrusted with. Especially since it probably doesn't come up very often until it does, but by that point the cat is out of the bag. To help prevent a normalization of deviance, you should put in some kind of mechanism to remind yourself that customer data is private and handling it should be treated with extreme care. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalization_of_deviance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalization_of_deviance

jrs235 10y ago

Cory will get to post "How a competitor blindly thinking I was evil and trying to smear me helped my startup take off!" Anyways, while the tone and content of this specific blog post is questionable and sub-par, I find many of Justin's other blog posts to be interesting. Don't worry Justin, you'll be able to write a post after Cory does titled: "How I mistakenly accused a competitor of being evil led to market validation that ended up helping us both!"

asadkn 10y ago

The lesson here seems to not publicly share your trade secrets if the barrier to entry in the market are too low. Even if the idea is out there, holding off on behind-the-scenes execution details is a good idea. While most people have enough ego and morals to do their own thing, there are many out there looking for easy ideas and methods to imitate. They like to call it inspiration which is a self-serving label to an otherwise immoral action.

poikniok 10y ago

I am glad you did such a great job at outing yourself for having no ethics, and also some sort of insecurity and bitterness, it makes it easy to remember to never do any business or be involved in any way with you. Thanks for the enlightening blog post!

dang 10y ago
Whoa—personal attacks, which this is, are not allowed on HN. When someone makes a mistake, admits it, and takes steps to correct it, we should acknowledge the good in that. Everybody finds themselves in such a situation at some point, and I'm sure you wouldn't like to be piled on this way. We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13654684 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13654684 and marked it off-topic.