4 ms·

All of the convoluted reasons why scalping must be stomped out have never made sense to me. If people would let the market handle it, things would sort themsel

All of the convoluted reasons why scalping must be stomped out have never made sense to me. If people would let the market handle it, things would sort themselves out naturally. If scalpers have to spend more money buying tickets than they can make by selling them, they'll stop buying so many tickets. Also, maybe venues should have some method of selling unredeemed tickets at the door. For example, if a ticked hasn't been redeemed by one hour after the start of the show, the venue gets to re-sell that space to someone who is there in person with cash in hand. Scalper spent $50 on the ticket that s/he couldn't sell so an hour after the show, the venue can re-sell that space for $30 cash. I'm sure I have overlooked something here but I'm just brainstorming. Instead of trying to fight technological battles that you're not going to win, revamp the ecosystem.

criddell 10y ago
Let the market handle it? You mean sell to those willing to pay the most? If you are a performer, sometimes you want to sell to the biggest fans. What's the market mechanism for that?
- LordKano 10y ago
  Yes. That's how things have always been. As long as we live in a capitalist society, that's how they'll always be. The market value of a thing is not just what someone tries to sell it for, it's what someone else is willing to pay for it. There have long been mechanisms by which the most dedicated fans have access to some of the tickets for less than market rates. Call it old fashioned if you like but fan clubs or the 21st century analog. FB Groups, mailing lists, private websites, actual in person box-office ticket sales, whatever... 14 months ago, I got to meet my all time favorite musician. I purchased my ticket at a beauty parlor and I talked to the concert promoter on the telephone to ask him if he could help me make it happen.
  - criddell 10y ago
    Right. The market doesn't work very well except for the very simple scenario of maximizing revenue.
    - matwood 10y ago
      I think it works wonderfully well. I get to see popular events if I'm willing to pay, and I've seen less popular events for less than face value of the ticket. When I lived near a pro-sports team, my wife and I would go down on Sundays and play good cop/bad cop at kick-off time, and pit the scalpers against each other trying to get rid of their final tickets. Rarely did we ever pay above face value.
    - LordKano 10y ago
      That's precisely the opposite of both my point and observable reality. Why doesn't every apartment rent for $1500 per month? Because people aren't willing to pay that for every apartment. Because of this, every real estate market has a ceiling with regards to how much can be charged for rent. If Lil Bow Wow goes on tour at the same venues as Eminem, will the tickets cost the same? No because people are willing to pay more for Eminem tickets. If someone tries to charge as much money to see Lil Bow Wow as they do for Eminem, a lot of tickets would go unsold. They would lose money and next time, they won't make the same mistake. That's the market at work.
      - criddell 10y ago
        We both keep saying the same thing. You're right - that's the market at work and I agree with you on that. The market is doing the only thing it can do which isn't necessarily what the artist wants. It's failing the artist. The article talks about U2. Apparently they are so wealthy now that when they put on a show they want to maximize for something other than money. Most performers will tell you that a great show is half performer and half audience. Shouldn't they try to get tickets to their biggest fans that will help them put on the best show even if those super fans don't have the deepest pockets? When your only tool is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. Maybe market mechanisms aren't good enough when dealing with intangible quantities.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- Paul-ish 10y ago
  > If you are a performer, sometimes you want to sell to the biggest fans. What's the market mechanism for that? This is what I don't get about some of the arguments here. In the freest markets, doesn't that mean I have the right refuse service to anyone? Doesn't that mean I have every right to do everything in my power to avoid selling to scalpers? If that artists wanted to do an auction type system, the arguments being made would make sense, but that isn't what most artists are trying to do.
  - criddell 10y ago
    I just read another story here about the letter Bill and Melinda Gates wrote to Warren Buffet to tell him what they are doing with his money. Market mechanisms are part of it (like giving vaccine makers purchasing guarantees so they will work at getting the cost of vaccines down) but there aren't good market mechanisms for a lot of the foundation's philanthropic work. They aren't maximizing for profit, their goal is to maximize other goals.

criddell 10y ago

Let the market handle it? You mean sell to those willing to pay the most? If you are a performer, sometimes you want to sell to the biggest fans. What's the market mechanism for that?

LordKano 10y ago
Yes. That's how things have always been. As long as we live in a capitalist society, that's how they'll always be. The market value of a thing is not just what someone tries to sell it for, it's what someone else is willing to pay for it. There have long been mechanisms by which the most dedicated fans have access to some of the tickets for less than market rates. Call it old fashioned if you like but fan clubs or the 21st century analog. FB Groups, mailing lists, private websites, actual in person box-office ticket sales, whatever... 14 months ago, I got to meet my all time favorite musician. I purchased my ticket at a beauty parlor and I talked to the concert promoter on the telephone to ask him if he could help me make it happen.
- criddell 10y ago
  Right. The market doesn't work very well except for the very simple scenario of maximizing revenue.
  - matwood 10y ago
    I think it works wonderfully well. I get to see popular events if I'm willing to pay, and I've seen less popular events for less than face value of the ticket. When I lived near a pro-sports team, my wife and I would go down on Sundays and play good cop/bad cop at kick-off time, and pit the scalpers against each other trying to get rid of their final tickets. Rarely did we ever pay above face value.
  - LordKano 10y ago
    That's precisely the opposite of both my point and observable reality. Why doesn't every apartment rent for $1500 per month? Because people aren't willing to pay that for every apartment. Because of this, every real estate market has a ceiling with regards to how much can be charged for rent. If Lil Bow Wow goes on tour at the same venues as Eminem, will the tickets cost the same? No because people are willing to pay more for Eminem tickets. If someone tries to charge as much money to see Lil Bow Wow as they do for Eminem, a lot of tickets would go unsold. They would lose money and next time, they won't make the same mistake. That's the market at work.
    - criddell 10y ago
      We both keep saying the same thing. You're right - that's the market at work and I agree with you on that. The market is doing the only thing it can do which isn't necessarily what the artist wants. It's failing the artist. The article talks about U2. Apparently they are so wealthy now that when they put on a show they want to maximize for something other than money. Most performers will tell you that a great show is half performer and half audience. Shouldn't they try to get tickets to their biggest fans that will help them put on the best show even if those super fans don't have the deepest pockets? When your only tool is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. Maybe market mechanisms aren't good enough when dealing with intangible quantities.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Paul-ish 10y ago
> If you are a performer, sometimes you want to sell to the biggest fans. What's the market mechanism for that? This is what I don't get about some of the arguments here. In the freest markets, doesn't that mean I have the right refuse service to anyone? Doesn't that mean I have every right to do everything in my power to avoid selling to scalpers? If that artists wanted to do an auction type system, the arguments being made would make sense, but that isn't what most artists are trying to do.
- criddell 10y ago
  I just read another story here about the letter Bill and Melinda Gates wrote to Warren Buffet to tell him what they are doing with his money. Market mechanisms are part of it (like giving vaccine makers purchasing guarantees so they will work at getting the cost of vaccines down) but there aren't good market mechanisms for a lot of the foundation's philanthropic work. They aren't maximizing for profit, their goal is to maximize other goals.