4 ms·

> If I am willing to pay the asking price for tickets, I should be able to buy them. If you're offering them so cheaply that I will happily buy all of the ticke

> If I am willing to pay the asking price for tickets, I should be able to buy them. If you're offering them so cheaply that I will happily buy all of the tickets then you're offering them too cheap and you can't really complain if I buy them. And if I'm an artist who wants to ensure that fans without a lot of money can see me? Should I be allowed to offer a concert where tickets cost 20% of market value, or should "the market" step in and say "no. I'm the one in charge, and I say that once you reach a certain level of fame, only rich people are allowed to see you live. sorry, but you've outgrown your original fanbase." That feels like kind of a sick attitude. The solution here is either the invisible hand of the market, OR tight controls exercised at the artist's discretion.

ikeboy 10y ago
>And if I'm an artist who wants to ensure that fans without a lot of money can see me? Either run background checks on fans and only allow people without a lot of money to take those seats, or throw large enough events such that there's enough supply to meet the demand at your preferred price.
- knodi123 10y ago
  This really feels like treating the invisible hand like a religion. At all costs, price controls must be avoided! The will of the merchant is irrelevant! The only thing that matters is maximizing profit- any other solution would commit the heresy of denying power to wealth! Seriously - either background checks, or rent out yankee stadium? No solutions in between?
  - ikeboy 10y ago
    What will of the merchant here is being thwarted? The question was how to fulfil the merchant's desires, and I gave several possible answers. As long as there's more demand than supply, some mechanism will allocate the scarce supply to the buyers who want it most in the sense of being willing to pay the most for it. Any other system cannot be pareto-optimal.
    - knodi123 10y ago
      > What will of the merchant here is being thwarted? Allowing poor fans the opportunity to get in to a show. > I gave several possible answers No, you gave two. And the background check one was so ludicrous that you probably should have kept it to yourself. And you missed the most obvious, don't allow ticket resale. No need for hundreds of expensive financial investigations, and you don't have to rent out a stadium. Dedicated fans can still get a ticket, regardless of their wealth. Mission accomplished.
      - ikeboy 10y ago
        Why can't they meet the demand by renting a larger venue? Banning ticket resale is also expensive at scale.
        soundwave106 10y ago
        At some point, there's a limit to practical venue size. Football stadiums are probably the most common large venue readily available to rent, and that will only hold at maximum 60-100K. Large outdoor venues can hold a lot more people than that, but the logistics probably are a lot harder (most large outdoor events go for the "festival" approach, for all I know it is not worth it to do that scale for single artist events). TBH I imagine (as implied in the article) scalping is "tolerated" a bit by venues because some of the risk of a dud event is offloaded to the scalpers. The main problem with high priced concerts is probably more in artist image. It's harder to have a "mass market" friendly image if your concert tickets are not really accessible to the "mass market". Branding is critical for artists; if chasing the short term dollar is bad for the brand, it may not be the best thing to do long term. Allocating a section of low cost tickets via ID based lottery (ala Hamilton) is a great solution for this in my opinion.
        knodi123 10y ago
        > Why can't they meet the demand by renting a larger venue? For a variety of reasons. If Sting reunites with The Police and goes on tour- sure, rent a football stadium. Some bands prefer smaller, more intimate venues. Some may have a hard time competing for the limited spaces at larger venues. Some may choose to avoid that level of fame. Who knows? It's none of my business. Bands are always free to chase as much fame as they want, and to make their own policies about pricing or resale or whatever. I just think it's a little dystopian to say they're required to zealously follow some sort of capitalist ideal. > Banning ticket resale is also expensive at scale. Checking tickets at the door doesn't get much more expensive if you also require showing an ID with a name that matches the name on the ticket. You can even use the barcodes on most IDs, no fiddly reading required! Remember, you're trying to keep out the people who capitalize on scale, so if somebody sneaks in with a resold ticket and a corresponding fake ID, who cares? A 99% solution is fine.
matwood 10y ago
> And if I'm an artist who wants to ensure that fans without a lot of money can see me? Which fans without a lot of money? How do they get picked? Lottery? Who can click the fastest? Who has no job and can stand in line for days?
- knodi123 10y ago
  > Which fans without a lot of money? If you have more fans than seats, some people will be unable to attend. That's unavoidable. But the constraint you're replying to says "ensure that fans without a lot of money can see me", not "ensure that all fans get to see me". So your criticism is a little off target. Yes, those fans willing to show the most dedication might have an advantage. But we can solve the majority of the "disproportionate power to the wealthy" by the simple expedient of only allowing one or two tickets per person, and matching ID to purchasers of the ticket at the door.
- logfromblammo 10y ago
  Release a gratis band-themed mobile game, with user ID tied to the phone owner. In this app, allow the user to collect a free sweepstakes entry, with a 60 minute cooldown timer, to a maximum of 8 entries per calendar day. Whenever concert tickets go on sale, reserve a block on the floor from the Nth row to the back of the floor. (We all know that the spots all the way up front are for the groupies, superfans, and rich people.) Allow users to allocate their entries to specific shows/venues on your tour. Hold a lottery for each show, and allow the users that are drawn to buy 2 tickets for $2, and an exclusive concert tee for $21. Allow a few winners to get gratis superfan passes, to meet the band, collect autographs, get the gratis ultra-exclusive VIP concert tee, scream and collapse on the fainting couch, or whatever it is your hardcore fans would most like to do. Close to concert time, if the venue is not actually sold out, do another lottery and make a second-chance offering to get any previously unsold tickets for $1 each. Any user that does not or cannot buy tickets can then spend their entries to get gratis/discounted merch or media files, or just get their remaining sweepstakes entries back, perhaps to try again on the next show. The user arrives at the venue, and presents a certain screen of the app on their phone to be permitted entry. This rewards dedication to the band (and its licensed merch). In order to maximize your chances, you have to check in every hour that you are awake and not at work or in school. You can't get those tickets any other way, and if you don't make the effort, someone who is more into the band will. Also, the app itself can recruit and assimilate new people into your fanbase. And you can make sure that the band's own holding company controls the IP and app-based revenue, not the record label, promoter, or distributor.
newdayrising 10y ago
How many artists, do you think, value their fans over money?
- knodi123 10y ago
  Plenty, I'd bet. I'd certainly expect the concentration of people with such ideals to be higher among the population of artists vs. the population of armchair economists. But I think a better question is, how many artists should be free to value their fans over money?
jvz 10y ago
It's not a question of "should". You can't beat the market. You can fight it, but you will lose. And so will your customers, most likely.

ikeboy 10y ago

>And if I'm an artist who wants to ensure that fans without a lot of money can see me? Either run background checks on fans and only allow people without a lot of money to take those seats, or throw large enough events such that there's enough supply to meet the demand at your preferred price.

knodi123 10y ago
This really feels like treating the invisible hand like a religion. At all costs, price controls must be avoided! The will of the merchant is irrelevant! The only thing that matters is maximizing profit- any other solution would commit the heresy of denying power to wealth! Seriously - either background checks, or rent out yankee stadium? No solutions in between?
- ikeboy 10y ago
  What will of the merchant here is being thwarted? The question was how to fulfil the merchant's desires, and I gave several possible answers. As long as there's more demand than supply, some mechanism will allocate the scarce supply to the buyers who want it most in the sense of being willing to pay the most for it. Any other system cannot be pareto-optimal.
  - knodi123 10y ago
    > What will of the merchant here is being thwarted? Allowing poor fans the opportunity to get in to a show. > I gave several possible answers No, you gave two. And the background check one was so ludicrous that you probably should have kept it to yourself. And you missed the most obvious, don't allow ticket resale. No need for hundreds of expensive financial investigations, and you don't have to rent out a stadium. Dedicated fans can still get a ticket, regardless of their wealth. Mission accomplished.
    - ikeboy 10y ago
      Why can't they meet the demand by renting a larger venue? Banning ticket resale is also expensive at scale.
      - soundwave106 10y ago
        At some point, there's a limit to practical venue size. Football stadiums are probably the most common large venue readily available to rent, and that will only hold at maximum 60-100K. Large outdoor venues can hold a lot more people than that, but the logistics probably are a lot harder (most large outdoor events go for the "festival" approach, for all I know it is not worth it to do that scale for single artist events). TBH I imagine (as implied in the article) scalping is "tolerated" a bit by venues because some of the risk of a dud event is offloaded to the scalpers. The main problem with high priced concerts is probably more in artist image. It's harder to have a "mass market" friendly image if your concert tickets are not really accessible to the "mass market". Branding is critical for artists; if chasing the short term dollar is bad for the brand, it may not be the best thing to do long term. Allocating a section of low cost tickets via ID based lottery (ala Hamilton) is a great solution for this in my opinion.
      - knodi123 10y ago
        > Why can't they meet the demand by renting a larger venue? For a variety of reasons. If Sting reunites with The Police and goes on tour- sure, rent a football stadium. Some bands prefer smaller, more intimate venues. Some may have a hard time competing for the limited spaces at larger venues. Some may choose to avoid that level of fame. Who knows? It's none of my business. Bands are always free to chase as much fame as they want, and to make their own policies about pricing or resale or whatever. I just think it's a little dystopian to say they're required to zealously follow some sort of capitalist ideal. > Banning ticket resale is also expensive at scale. Checking tickets at the door doesn't get much more expensive if you also require showing an ID with a name that matches the name on the ticket. You can even use the barcodes on most IDs, no fiddly reading required! Remember, you're trying to keep out the people who capitalize on scale, so if somebody sneaks in with a resold ticket and a corresponding fake ID, who cares? A 99% solution is fine.

matwood 10y ago

> And if I'm an artist who wants to ensure that fans without a lot of money can see me? Which fans without a lot of money? How do they get picked? Lottery? Who can click the fastest? Who has no job and can stand in line for days?

knodi123 10y ago
> Which fans without a lot of money? If you have more fans than seats, some people will be unable to attend. That's unavoidable. But the constraint you're replying to says "ensure that fans without a lot of money can see me", not "ensure that all fans get to see me". So your criticism is a little off target. Yes, those fans willing to show the most dedication might have an advantage. But we can solve the majority of the "disproportionate power to the wealthy" by the simple expedient of only allowing one or two tickets per person, and matching ID to purchasers of the ticket at the door.
logfromblammo 10y ago
Release a gratis band-themed mobile game, with user ID tied to the phone owner. In this app, allow the user to collect a free sweepstakes entry, with a 60 minute cooldown timer, to a maximum of 8 entries per calendar day. Whenever concert tickets go on sale, reserve a block on the floor from the Nth row to the back of the floor. (We all know that the spots all the way up front are for the groupies, superfans, and rich people.) Allow users to allocate their entries to specific shows/venues on your tour. Hold a lottery for each show, and allow the users that are drawn to buy 2 tickets for $2, and an exclusive concert tee for $21. Allow a few winners to get gratis superfan passes, to meet the band, collect autographs, get the gratis ultra-exclusive VIP concert tee, scream and collapse on the fainting couch, or whatever it is your hardcore fans would most like to do. Close to concert time, if the venue is not actually sold out, do another lottery and make a second-chance offering to get any previously unsold tickets for $1 each. Any user that does not or cannot buy tickets can then spend their entries to get gratis/discounted merch or media files, or just get their remaining sweepstakes entries back, perhaps to try again on the next show. The user arrives at the venue, and presents a certain screen of the app on their phone to be permitted entry. This rewards dedication to the band (and its licensed merch). In order to maximize your chances, you have to check in every hour that you are awake and not at work or in school. You can't get those tickets any other way, and if you don't make the effort, someone who is more into the band will. Also, the app itself can recruit and assimilate new people into your fanbase. And you can make sure that the band's own holding company controls the IP and app-based revenue, not the record label, promoter, or distributor.

newdayrising 10y ago

How many artists, do you think, value their fans over money?

knodi123 10y ago
Plenty, I'd bet. I'd certainly expect the concentration of people with such ideals to be higher among the population of artists vs. the population of armchair economists. But I think a better question is, how many artists should be free to value their fans over money?

jvz 10y ago

It's not a question of "should". You can't beat the market. You can fight it, but you will lose. And so will your customers, most likely.