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A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone
- virmundi 10y agoAs a white man, I'm a bit concerned about coming back into my own country. The only social media accounts I have are here and reddit. Will the guards at the gate accept that I don't have a Facebook or twitter account?
- hacknat 10y agoI think if you don't have the apps installed they'd probably would assume you were telling the truth. As a white man, you probably don't have much to worry about.
- DanBC 10y agoThey detained the former Prime Minister of Norway, a very white guy, because he'd been to Iran for a conference.
- Sebguer 10y agoThey actually detained him because he didn't have a Visa to be in the US, which is a requirement for anyone, even those who would not normally need a visa, who has been to Iran and a select few other countries in the last few years. That isn't to say the entire situation wasn't bullshit, just that it wasn't the case of the Borders agent randomly stopping him for being in Iran.
- NN88 10y agohow considerate of you.
- cylinder 10y agoWhat does you being a white man have to do with anything?
- anigbrowl 10y agoDon't be so naive
- batbomb 10y agoConceivably, it's quite possible he had information which is subject to ITAR regulations, including data about sensors, mirrors. At the very least, he probably had sensor vendor specifications which are trade secrets and often covered under NDAs.
- yardie 10y agoDid you bother to read the article? He was detained coming into the country. Just call a spade a spade. Trump wrote a shitty, racist executive order and people from all walks of life who happen to have one thing in common, a Muslim sounding name, are caught up in it.
- return0 10y agoThere is zero indication this had anything to do with the ban, he was not held detained , but his phone was. I think it's part of his job, and the verge is creating straw men
- yardie 10y agoYou and I have very different definitions of detained then. 40 minutes? So everyone around him was detained in detaining room, with sleeping cots, but he wasn't? Please explain that one? And ITAR has fuck all to do with reentering the country.
- ptaipale 10y ago40 minutes is nothing on many border crossings.
- batbomb 10y agoAs said in another thread: I was making an observation that he was possibly forced to divulge sensitive information, which is messed up.
- donarb 10y agoAlso, the time was longer than 40 minutes. He waited that long before talking with someone following detention. He then was forced to give up his phone/password and waited another 30 minutes while it was searched.
- jjawssd 10y agoYou're right about white males. Nothing ever happened to Aaron Hillel Swartz. Or is he a bit too dark for your taste?
- Ar-Curunir 10y agoStatistically as white person he's much less likely to be harassed than people of other ethnicities. That is the point the parent was trying to make.
- bruceb 10y agowhere are the statistics?
- dclowd9901 10y agoAaron died because he killed himself. As far as persecution goes, being a white male is a boon rather than a count against. One data outlier does not an argument make.
- isubkhankulov 10y agoAaron Schwartz was skewered because he made political statements and took action the gov't didn't like while doing something illegal that may have hurt a multinational corporation.
- abrowne 10y agoAaron Swartz
- dang 10y agoPlease don't post flamewar-style comments here. You've posted a lot of uncivil and/or unsubstantive comments to HN. We ban accounts that do that, so please stop doing that. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13629908 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13629908 and marked it off-topic.
- Jonnax 10y agoTheir point about how other countries will take the US's stance as a cue is somewhat scary. If you try and cross any border it will be relinquishing access to all accounts. I'm assuming email also comes along with 'social media', since communication is by its definition social. So how do you protect yourself? I think just going with "Don't have any social media" isn't a good answer because the relationship that children growing up today with the internet is almost completely different to even people 10-15 years older than them. Someone having carte blanche access to a person's phone will find something if they want to. Imagine you're in a few group chats, someone mentions doing some drug. And you've just entered a country where that's an instant prison sentence. Maybe some off colour jokes about politicians? Proof to kick you out or at least detain. I imagine we're at the cusp of something much more unsettling. The technology to reverse image search a face is available today. It's pretty easy to make you appear associated with anything, anyone, etc.
- masklinn 10y ago> So how do you protect yourself? Wipe phone when you pass through border, restore afterwards. If you're really paranoid, if the device leaves your presence it's to be considered physically compromised.
- FabHK 10y agoAssuming you're going to a place with fast internet. If you're not, it can be a pain.
- EGreg 10y agoYou can restore using iTunes backups stored on an encrypted hard drive in a secret volume. Plausible deniability even after decryption. TrueCrypt does this.
- sah2ed 10y agoBe sure that as such powers increase they'll obtain more sophisticated tools to help them catch smart alecks. There's also the possibility of seizure -- not getting your encrypted hard drive back because you refused to co-operate.
- mindslight 10y agoEspecially with a USG-owned device, this seems like it would have been a ripe time to assert one's citizenship for entry and just let them steal the device. The last time I traveled internationally, I purposely brought only an old laptop. To return, I zeroed the hard drive and physically removed it from the machine so the scum would have pretext to steal less of my property. For my preparation I was rewarded with absolutely no thuggery, which is how the sheer majority of border crossings actually go. That's the insidious thing about the inverted-totalitarian threat model - these specific situations are inherently rare. If they were common, change would easily happen through democratic means. It is only through the majority of people believing that it cannot happen to them, are the injustices allowed to persist. We really need a reboot for a modern OS model which puts cryptographic access control front and center, with support for secret splitting and the appropriate bottom-up foundation that allows for steganographic-secure machines. I can actually see this plausibly happening for proper personal computers, eventually. Unfortunately the average person's computing device has become a "cell phone" which, even ignoring the inherent pwntivity of Qualcomm integrated chips, is a software ecosystem funded primarily through commercial surveillance.
- AJ007 10y agoWhich government agencies can detain agents of other government agencies?
- mindslight 10y agoEh? I would think any agency that can detain people, can detain employees of other agencies. And priority would be resolved contextually ("jurisdiction") and through "professional courtesy" cooperation - your standard town cop and the CBP thug both believe this terrorism delusion. My point about the ownership of the phone is that I would think NASA would be in less of a position to discipline its employees for property being stolen, especially if it were stolen by USG. I'd encourage the same tack with private employers' phones or your own burner. But most people don't have burners and a private employer can baselessly discipline an employee for disobeying "authorituh" (although if one's IT department has a clue, they'll fully support maintaining security over saving a few hundred dollars).
- bmc7505 10y agoThis is why we need plausibily deniable encryption. Does anyone know an Android ROM, or jailbreak app that is visually indistinguishable from the lock screen, which can be unlocked to an innocuous home screen?
- huac 10y agoBlackphone has 'Spaces' which supports multiple 'phones' on the same device. I am not personally familiar with it but this looks promising and similar to what you propose. Does Android multi-user mode work for this?
- Mikeb85 10y agoThis happens in Canada too, unfortunately (was in the news quite a bit not too long ago, and can be seen in action on that reality TV show about border security). Best to wipe your phone, and not bring any sensitive documents across borders period.
- droithomme 10y agoYes, you should wipe your phone, but after they have been in the back room with it for an hour it is compromised and can not be used any longer.
- mirimir 10y agoRight. That's another reason why you should take only disposable stuff across borders.
- mirimir 10y agoJust don't take your primary phone on trips. Or any of your primary computers.
- pigeons 10y agoYes when i drive to canada as a us citizen canada has had me decrypt drives and enter email passwords etc.
- droithomme 10y agoUS citizens can not be prohibited re-entry into the US.
- AckSyn 10y agoI look forward to not unlocking my phone and taking it to court if it comes down to it next month.
- droithomme 10y agoIf they have an actual warrant or other order signed by a judge and targeting you specifically then you should know you will likely be found in contempt and indefinitely jailed without trial, perhaps for the rest of your life. Without a warrant though they can seize it as contraband but they can't deny you entry.
- tankenmate 10y agoBut if they have a warrant (apart from possibly a FISA issued warrant) they are legally required to show you the warrant.
- maxerickson 10y agoIt seems they can seize a device from a US citizen for extended inspection though.
- macintux 10y agoReally? We MURDERED a US citizen abroad.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- jcranmer 10y agoThe legality (indeed, constitutionality) of that action is extremely suspect. Most of the War on Terror rests on extremely tortuous legal interpretations, and large portions of it have failed to hold up in court.
- caminante 10y agoHere's the Customs and Border Patrol policy in question [0] (see page 31). The EFF has a nice write-up on this topic [1]. It sounds like there's a "border search exemption" that bypasses the Fourth Amendment. The rationale was to ensure duties were paid and screen for "bad guys," drugs, weapons, diseased fruit, etc. [0] https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/privacy_pia_cbp_laptop.pdf https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/privacy... [1] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/12/law-enforcement-uses-border-search-exception-fourth-amendment-loophole https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/12/law-enforcement-uses-b...
- discardorama 10y ago> The rational was to ensure duties were paid and screen for "bad guys," drugs, weapons, diseased fruit, etc. There's always a perfectly-sounding rationale for such giving them such powers, but in the end these are always abused.
- iak8god 10y agoHere's the ACLU's page on this, with a map of the 100 mile "constitution-free zone": https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights-governments-100-mile-border-zone-map https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights-governments-100-mile-b... Note that this zone includes New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Seattle, etc, etc, and hence a really sizable portion of the US population.
- SAI_Peregrinus 10y agoAlso note that that image is incomplete: international airports count as border crossings for CBP's purposes, so any city with one and the surrounding area in a 100 mile radius should be added. Edit: About like this. Quick & dirty edit of the ACLU's .jpg, so the quality is poor: http://imgur.com/a/DqDeQ http://imgur.com/a/DqDeQ
- iak8god 10y agoNice. And in case it wasn't already crystal clear at this point: that means the majority of Americans live in places where the government straight out claims that the Bill of Rights just doesn't fully apply. US Census population density map by county (pdf): http://www2.census.gov/geo/pdfs/maps-data/maps/thematic/us_popdensity_2010map.pdf http://www2.census.gov/geo/pdfs/maps-data/maps/thematic/us_p...
- suprgeek 10y agoThe crux of the matter is here: More importantly, travelers are not legally required to unlock their devices, although agents can detain them for significant periods of time if they do not.... and here: The document given to Bikkannavar listed a series of consequences for failure to offer information that would allow CBP to copy the contents of the device. “I didn’t really want to explore all those consequences,” he says. “It mentioned detention and seizure.” It sounds like CBP is trying to circumvent the "PIN Revealing" need by basically illegally detaining Citizens until they do. This is grounds for "Habeas Corpus" lawsuit - should a citizen really dig their heels in.
- wheelerwj 10y agofirst a citizen has to be well enough connected to even get that kind of help. second, you need to let your connections know you need the help. third, your still going to take a severe financial and emotional beating. so sure, its not okay that this is happening. but not everyone is in a position to standup.
- mysticmarvel 10y agoHire a lawyer with a "dead man" instruction to instigate such action if he's not informed otherwise within 48 hours. Keep money for legal fees in escrow for that purpose. Shouldn't be difficult to set up.
- wheelerwj 10y agodude, less than 60% of people have $1,000 in their savings account. retaining a lawyer just in case is entirely out of the question.
- Havoc 10y agoNote to self - bring burner phone for dodgy countries...like the US.
- waqf 10y agoA few years ago, for foreign travel, one used to buy a new SIM card at one's destination. These days, I'm thinking I might just bring my SIM and buy a new phone at my destination.
- flurdy 10y agoIf they have access to your sim they can probably reset your passwords and possibly get TFA via SMS to most social media and email accounts....
- waqf 10y agoIt depends on your exact threat model, but when your attackers are state agencies you should probably be assuming that the telephone network is compromised anyway.
- emmelaich 10y agoI did exactly that on a recent trip to the USA. First day, I went to an AT&T shop and bought a phone + 8gb data for month for cash. No ID or credit card required. I bought this not for anything nefarious, but just so I had a local number for hotel bookings plus a wifi hotspot if needed.
- ianderf 10y ago> just over a week into the Trump Administration. It actually started long time before Trump. http://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/3363/laptop-searches-by-customs-uk-and-us http://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/3363/laptop-search...
- bitwizzle 10y agoNow is the time for vendors to consider implementing a duress password. Upon entering your duress password the user is presented with a fake profile, or perhaps everything could just be wiped. I'm not sure how well this would play out in the real world, but it's one of the best things protections I could imagine if you want to carry sensitive data across borders.
- DamnInteresting 10y agoI really wish mobile device vendors would add support for multiple unlock modes. E.g.: * "Me mode" that unlocks everything. * "Kid mode" that only allows one's kid access to pre-approved apps and features. * A "lend to a stranger to make a call" mode that is a lot like the kid mode, but it also causes the phone to start broadcasting its GPS location frequently (and refuse to turn off [though it might fake it]) in case the stranger steals it. * An "under duress" alternate PIN that unlocks an alternate profile full of nothing but benign activity, with no indication of (or access to) the encrypted real profile. Once in this mode, the phone cannot unlock normally without a non-phone 2-factor authentication (e.g., email). All but the last could use the normal PIN, perhaps with different "submit" buttons. I would also love to see the same thing on ATMs, where an alternate "I'm being robbed" PIN will show a fake, low balance in the account and limit withdrawal to that value.
- Cyph0n 10y agoThat ATM idea sounds pretty cool honestly. Applying it to phones seems a bit unrealistic, given that so few people will actually use those features.
- ajmurmann 10y agoThat idea is so good. The ATM could also sound a silent alarm, just like some home alarms do. The phone could maybe even start recording all interactions and automatically submit to something like ACLU.
- DamnInteresting 10y ago
- throwaway2439 10y agoI work at a military base, I received a background check and everything, not for anything classified, but for a scientific research group stationed on a base. Now, I think I'm afraid to leave the country because I'm not white. Here I was planning to get global entry, but it's clear it doesn't matter lick.
- wheelerwj 10y agoi don't know why skin color has anything to do with it? its a religious issue. or worse, its a class issue in which case, all of us are pretty boned.
- ianderf 10y agoNobody has mentioned the "Scroogled" short story yet? I really hope this is not the future that expects us. http://www.crimeflare.com/doctorow.html http://www.crimeflare.com/doctorow.html
- samat 10y agoOne of the best I have ever read. Does anyone now where to find more stuff like this?
- maaaats 10y agoThe former prime minister of Norway was recently detained at the border for previously having visited Iran. Think about that, prime minister of a NATO allied country. The border rules (even before Trump) are whack.
- superfx 10y agoHe was detained after Trump was elected, although it is true that CBP claimed the holdup was due to Obama-era rules.
- legostormtroopr 10y ago> He was detained after Trump was elected. So? The rules were in place before Trump were elected. Let see what else what other laws we can apply to this logic. * [Equal pay occurs even] after Trump was elected, although it is true that [Equal Pay Act of 1963] was due to JFK-era rules. * [National Parks exist] after Trump was elected, although it is true that [National Park Service Organic Act] was due to Woodrow Wilson-era rules. Hes not the greatest guy by far, but don't blame Trump for the mistakes of previous administrations.
- adrienne 10y agoNational parks (and, probably, equal pay) are about to NOT exist, precisely because they existed before Trump was elected.
- rl3 10y agoUsing detention as a tool to extort access from people is underhanded at best. Rifling through people's digital devices should not be acceptable. Why doesn't Apple/Google/Microsoft/Facebook et al. coordinate with organizations like EFF or ACLU and throw their weight behind a campaign to stop this bullshit? If not companies, there's still plenty of extremely wealthy individuals in SV that one would think might care.
- notsrg 10y agoBecause none of those companies actually care about privacy? (sans maybe Apple).
- kevin_thibedeau 10y ago> Since the phone was issued by NASA... So it was already government property. I don't see the issue here.
- raverbashing 10y agoSo is it ok for the Fish and Wildlife service (example) to access devices, from, let's say, the WH? I don't think so
- throwaway2084 10y agoDid he notify NASA Security office, or NASA OIG? Curious what NASA OIG would have to say about this. They could determine that CBP actions were a security breach, and detain the CBP "agents" for questioning. Their special agents have badges. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/27/37/92/273792774762e6b15e7ead6de2e4cd6a.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/27/37/92/2737... Defense Criminal Investigative Services (DCIS) have been known to detain federal employees like TSA screeners over security issues.
- coldcode 10y agoHe immediately turned the phone off and gave it to NASA security to study who were none too pleased about it. This is a breach of trust between two US Departments and likely will not go away.
- clamprecht 10y ago> “I asked a question, ‘Why was I chosen?’ And [the CBP agent] wouldn’t tell me,” he says. He should file a Freedom of Information / Privacy Act request to get the reason they chose him.
- huac 10y agoFOIA can be denied on grounds of national security, pretty sure
- clamprecht 10y agoDefinitely, but it's worth asking.
- reddytowns 10y agoNot really. Now they have another reason to push you around.
- joshuaheard 10y agoI don't see what this has to do with Trump's travel restrictions, other than it coincidentally happened at the same time. If the author is trying to imply this correlation is causation, there is no evidence in the article. That being said, no American should have to have his phone searched at the border, even with the stated border exceptions to the Fourth Amendment.
- brndnmtthws 10y agoI hope you realize the job of the president is to instruct these agencies on how to conduct their operations. Don't defend people (CBP employees) which are are acting immorally, and possibly illegally. The Nazis said they were "just doing their job", and that defense did not stand up at the Nuremberg trials. Anyone who enforces orders of questionable legality is part of the problem (such as those executing these race or religion based searches). Edit: formatting
- aaron-lebo 10y agoCan we not make the leap from searches at border checkpoints (a major issue in and of itself) to murdering 6 million people in every thread? It's a valid concern but that kind of language immediately turns people off and tilts the entire discussion one way.
- jackmott 10y agosorry, we will keep making that leap as long as the crazy person osnpresident because we all worry some approximation of that could happen now.
- aaron-lebo 10y agoIf you can provide any evidence that Trump is looking to commit genocide, most people would be happy to know.
- deleted 10y ago
- ArenaSource 10y agowhere did I put my old Nokia 8210...
- kareldonk 10y agoThis is what happens in statism. Time to wake up, slaves. Google my name and statism. Read.
- tn13 10y agoHow does this apply when my phone belongs to my employer and has sensitive data on it ?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- ptaipale 10y agoStandard procedure is that you comply. Your employer's job is to equip you with a burner phone and laptop that contain nothing confidential and that you can give up at border. Sensitive data is shipped by other means.
- TomMarius 10y agoWhen I was a child (in central Europe), USA was seen as a heaven where everyone would like to live - and I did too. Nowadays I'm very happy I live in a "poor", speaking by numbers, but much more free republic in the middle of the old continent.
- tr1ck5t3r 10y agoCommunism and capitalism are both experiments to see what are the most effective control mechanisms. Communism told you directly what you had to do & think, the other is a system of suggestion that uses indirect often voluntary chosen means of communication, beit news channels, facebook meme, virals, data reports, bills and so on to help you arrive at the conclusion they want you to arrive at. Its a clever system of control if you cant see whats going on and believe you make your own decisions, whilst discounting how much you defer your decision making to experts, like teachers, Doctors, police, politicians and so on. Even the politicians are manipulated by the reports they get shown. The puppeteers are banking on your motivation in more ways than one.
- krab 10y agoThe same here. The reputation of USA changed really a lot since the end of communism and the nineties. We really appreciated their involvement in dismantling the Iron Curtain. We were also fascinated by some western goods :-). Nowadays, people see USA as one of the superpowers in the world who influence or intervene in other countries for their own benefit. If I had to choose, I'd still prefer to live in USA over China or Russia. But thankfully, these are not the only options.
- jjcc 10y agoIt's worse that the US policy makers intervene other countries mainly not because of their own benefit but because of they believe they are promoting the best values in the world. It's more deceptive and often supported by naive American public. Politicians pursuing pure self interest are more detectable. Hitler won't be in power again. But those who with strong ideology will be elected by American people. Similar situation also happened in Europa. NATO bombed Libya because French supported to overthrown a regime. Now waves of refugees come to Europa because of chaos and war.
- coldcode 10y agoNo, the US should not be allowed to request or demand access to a US Citizen's electronic devices for any reason whatsoever, no matter what Homeland Security says. The whole point of customs was to insure that goods were not brought into the country to avoid paying duties. The contents of an electronic device cannot be charged a duty. Anything else is beyond their authority. Of course none of this will stop a guy in a fancy uniform from demanding an illegal search anyway and making your life hell. Given the current government this will only get worse.
- makecheck 10y agoThere are at least four facts that should cause stuff like this to be discontinued immediately: — It is not only possible to acquire electronic data after crossing a checkpoint but there are many ways of doing so. — There is no possible way for the contents of a phone to be a threat to TRANSPORTATION security, which is theoretically the only reason someone should care when you’re crossing a border, boarding a plane, etc. — Even if it were possible for data itself to be a threat (and it’s not), there are many ways to carry data. Someone could hide the data in encrypted form, or even hide it in plain sight by being clever. Also, the information crossing a border doesn’t have to be electronic at all; it could be a page in a book. — Even if something “suspicious” is found, that is not guilt and no charges can be laid so what is the point!? It’s long past time to shut down all of these ridiculous things. There should be a very tiny list of things that border security needs to do, and it should all fit on one hand.
- AlexCoventry 10y ago> — Even if something “suspicious” is found, that is not guilt and no charges can be laid so what is the point!? I'm not defending this highly disturbing practice, but the point is that it's a political test. If they find anything politically disturbing on the phone, they can refuse you entry.
- morgante 10y ago> If they find anything politically disturbing on the phone, they can refuse you entry. No they can't. Refusing to allow a US citizen to (ever) re-enter the country isn't allowed. At worst they can detain you.
- biafra 10y agoI am really curious: What is the reasoning to allow this to happen to US citizens?
- morgante 10y agoThe theory is that 4th amendment protections are relaxed at the border (but they're not entirely eliminated). [0] That allows them to search your physical property and to request digital access, but it does not override the Fifth Amendment protection against self-incrimination. However, CBP does not have the right to demand that you give up your passwords as a citizen. They can attempt to coerce you through detention (but if that detainment were prolonged you'd have a solid habeas corpus case). [0] https://www.eff.org/wp/defending-privacy-us-border-guide-travelers-carrying-digital-devices https://www.eff.org/wp/defending-privacy-us-border-guide-tra...
- bayesian_horse 10y agoI feel myself discouraged from visiting the US for the next few years at least.
- Pica_soO 10y agoCould i have a dualboot jon-doe os on my phone, presenting the most boring person ever?
- SN76477 10y agoI guess I will start packing my phone and using my ipad when I travel since it has less personal data attached.
- tn13 10y agoThis is really sad. As an immigrant I always thought this was coming. I never fly on a muslim airlines like Etihad to Turkish even though they are more convenient, I do not accept friend requests from muslims people on LinkedIN and Facebook.
- kzrdude 10y agoSo you are already a victim of a xenophobic control apparatus.
- danyim 10y agoHow does that help? Aren't you passing judgment here?
- tn13 10y agoActually I would glad to have many of those people are friends I am just worried that US government will target me.
- selimthegrim 10y agoThere's nothing Muslim about Etihad
- krab 10y agoAs a EU citizen, I see these events from a bit different angle. I have visited US several times and the atmosphere and behaviour of both the customs officers and the TSA personnel gets more and more overlooking. I have never went through such extended search but going across a US airport feels really uncomfortable, to the extent I haven't seen in another country (UK comes close, though). The thing is Trump only added a little bit. This is a process that has been evolving for some time already. I wonder if anything would change if all US travellers to Europe would be given a leaflet explaining: "As a reciprocal measure for ESTA or Visa process, you are obliged to pay $14 entry fee. Moreover, we will perform an extended search to every fifth American passport holder. During the search, we may seize your devices and ask for your passwords. Not complying may result in a detention up to 24 hours and/or denied entry."
- waqf 10y agoI'm curious, can you tell me what bad experiences EU passport holders have, or fear to have, at UK airports?
- mrtksn 10y agoCurrently, when an EU citizen enters UK from the Heathrow Airport we can just scan our passports on the machine and get through. Usually there would be a nice lady to assist you if you are having trouble with the scanning. Usually there isn't even other personnel around. I never encountered any checks or questioning. But then again, the British tend to be very civil and I can't imagine getting a treatment similar to those we keep hearing about US borders. I hope Brexit doesn't change this too much.
- swalsh 10y agoAnother terrifying part of this, is due to the nature of networks, when one of your "friends" becomes compromised, your private message do too. This goes way past national security, and 7 countries. I have former coworkers from Syria, Iran, and Iraq. They're great people, and are great programmers. I friended them on Facebook many years ago, and now when one of them is caught at a border it's not just their private messages being raided... its my own anti-trump messages. This needs to stop here.
- blubb-fish 10y agofirst of all stop using FB for communication
- yarou 10y agoLet it happen to Thiel or Musk, see how quickly the procedure will be reversed.
- danyim 10y agoConsidering that they're white and not likely to be profiled like a person of color would, I highly doubt they'd be chosen.
- ubernostrum 10y agoMusk would like to sit down for coffee with the border guards who are detaining him and try to steer them onto a wiser course. Which will totally work super well any minute now! All he has to do is show he supports them and is willing to work with them and they'll certainly change how they operate!
- wolf550e 10y agoSitting congressmen were put on the no-fly list. They were removed, but the rules were not changed. http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/20/lewis.watchlist/ http://edition.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/20/lewis.watchlis...
- tn13 10y agoWhat if you are judged by the password you have chosen ? You have 24 character password ? Clearly you want to hide something more sinister. Why is your password "ResidentEvil3040" ? You intend to not return after visiting USA ?
- otaviokz 10y agoWelcome to the USSR as we read about in school... :(
- ommunist 10y agoLooks like US gov is a self-eating snake. Reminds me of grave incident happened to Dr Stephen Mann, who was brutally deprived of his reality augmentation devices on the US border.
- safeaim 10y agoFor all of you guys recommending using fake accounts, do remember that right before christmas, Obama administration signed in new rules[1], giving NSA leeway to share their collected data with 16 other agencies, including DHS, which CBP falls under. So you may get caught if you try to pull these shenanigans off. US agencies are no strangers to mission creep when it come's to sharing data, as seen recently in this article from Intercept on how FBI is building a national watchlist for companies that want to have realtime updates on whether their employees have committed any crimes while employed. [2] Two quotes from the NYT article that I feel are important to have in the back of your head when you plan your fake accounts: Now, other intelligence agencies will be able to search directly through raw repositories of communications intercepted by the N.S.A. and then apply such rules for “minimizing” privacy intrusions. But Patrick Toomey, a lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union, called the move an erosion of rules intended to protect the privacy of Americans when their messages are caught by the N.S.A.’s powerful global collection methods. He noted that domestic internet data was often routed or stored abroad, where it may get vacuumed up without court oversight. Let's say CBP get's a tool in a couple of months that let's their border agent search up any passenger through the NSA raw data. That search may then produce your real accounts. Let's say they do this before questioning you, and you then provide them with your fake accounts, that will not look good. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/12/us/politics/nsa-gets-more-latitude-to-share-intercepted-communications.html?_r=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/12/us/politics/nsa-gets-more... [2]https://theintercept.com/2017/02/04/the-fbi-is-building-a-national-watchlist-that-gives-companies-real-time-updates-on-employees/ https://theintercept.com/2017/02/04/the-fbi-is-building-a-na... EDIT: Removed the part about felony, as that was blatantly wrong.
- imaginenore 10y agoNone of what you said or quoted supports your claim (that making a second account for travel is a felony).
- safeaim 10y agoYou are of course completely right about that. I mixed up the felony for lying when trying to gain citizenship in the US. I will edit my post.
- biafra 10y agoWhat is the worst that can happen to a non US citizen, who is not producing the passwords they demand? Being send back immediately and all belongings seized? Or only devices they do not get the decryption passwords for? Detainment for how long? Being charged with what?
- waqf 10y agoWell, the worst probably involves being abducted and tortured, but I'd expect that to be only if you were at least suspected of being a particular known person of interest. I think the worst likely case if you're just generally noncooperative is being detained for hours/days then sent back and banned from the US for life.
- anigbrowl 10y agoAll of teh above, being held incommunicado for up to 6 months. You can charged with anything someone feels like charging you with. You don't have to be given due process or convicted for that to justify immigration detention. Basically you have zero leverage except through your home country's diplomatic mission and/or Americans you are friends or relatives with.
- junto 10y agoIf I were the US government with aspirations of complete population control, I'd be using the NSA data secretly to build a database of every single person, and producing a "risk/threat score". Every action you take online will alter this score. Every person they are connected to would influence their score, not unlike Google PageRank. Slowly you build up a picture of every single citizen, and anyone visiting the US would also be subject to this, possibly triggered by a visa waiver program application or a visa application. By the time you land on US soil and your passport is scanned, the immigration agent will simply be warned that the traveller requires x, y, and z actions to be carried out. I'll get my tinfoil hat out now.
- whalesalad 10y agoThis happens in other countries too. It's happened to friends of mine entering Canada from the United States.
- bogomipz 10y ago>"Not only is he a natural-born US citizen, but he’s also enrolled in Global Entry — a program through CBP that allows individuals who have undergone background checks to have expedited entry into the country." Incredible. The TSA and DHS is basically "theater of the absurd". Every other disturbing detail aside, this individual actually paid good money to enroll in the Global Entry program only to be detained and humiliated by this agency.
- helpfulanon 10y agoSo, for a casual traveler who may have a phone with conversations peppered with unfavorable political views throughout - what is the best security hygiene in this situation? Anyone have tips or tricks that average people can use, things that maybe don't involve having a separate phone etc?
- BJanecke 10y agoObviously appreciating that NASA has some sensitive data but just for a second also try and appreciate how would this play out for someone who works in the financial industry, where unauthorised sharing of sensitive data is not only a breach of contract with your employer/clients but a crime(insider trading) in almost all countries. Or imagine how the people who enforce these new regulations can exploit this. Query from the traveller at the border what their job is, if in the financial industry request that they relinquish their email find something that could tip you off and go buy stock. If they don't you lose nothing, you deport them, you do your job. I understand that you might want to tear this apart, but keep in mind the person that requests your data will often not be the person viewing it, so you are in no position to just "Take some names" and then ensure that your data remains confidential. This is terrifying.
- caf 10y agoWhat if you're a lawyer? Isn't it possible - even likely - that you'd have confidential client communications in your phone?
- wheelerwj 10y agoor journalist.
- acqq 10y ago> Or imagine how the people who enforce these new regulations can exploit this. I can imagine that perfectly: When Trump was asked about global warming he mentioned "these e-mails." "These" e-mails are the internal communication of the climate researches working at the UK University. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit_email_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit_email_c... Now, the e-mails didn't contain anything problematic, but were still used against climate researches by the "deniers" who mischaracterised and took the phrases out of the context. Details are in the Wikipedia article above. Now this NASA guy was "enrolled in Global Entry" meaning the border searchers already knew he works for NASA. NASA does climate science. And there's real chance that the searchers have copied the whole content of his phone. And it's imaginable that again something somewhere can be used as a big media campaign based on something taken out of the context, because it already happened once. With Trump really mentioning "these e-mails" I can imagine him using such a campaign as a pretext for even more unprecedented measures against climate scientists. I can't say if this specific case is part of something like that, only that I can imagine something like that.
- xexers 10y ago"You will not share your password (or in the case of developers, your secret key), let anyone else access your account, or do anything else that might jeopardize the security of your account." https://www.facebook.com/terms https://www.facebook.com/terms It would be a violation of my facebook terms and conditions to share my facebook password!
- sneak 10y agoUse a password manager. Use long random passwords for every site. Set your phone PIN to something 20 chars and random and text it to your friend. Write your friend's number on a slip of paper but add 1 to each non-area-code digit. Disable biometrics. Power off phone. You now no longer have the ability to provide the information they seek at the border. Call your friend when you get through (from someone else's phone) and change your PIN back.
- fny 10y agoAll the people suggesting a "duress mode" would solve this issue need to wake up. For as long as it's not illegal to force people to open up their phones at the border, you are not under duress. In fact, the government could even warp the situation to where you'd be commiting perjury by showing a fake screen. Unfortunately, we can't solve this problem through technology: we need to convert the broader public and fight to make the representatives we elect work for the people.
- wheelerwj 10y agowhile i disagree on your point sbout duress, you are absolutely correct about this being a legislative issue, not a technology one.
- fny 10y agoLegally, duress is defined as "any unlawful threat or coercion used... to induce another to act [or not act] in a manner [they] otherwise would not [or would]". Key word there is unlawful. Unfortunately, the Supreme Court has upheld that searching and seizing your device at the border without suspicion or warrant is lawful if done for the public interest. [0] (Insane, no?) Now want to become a purjure? Just sign a form declaring you're giving agents access, and then dump them on a fake screen. [0]: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/12/law-enforcement-uses-border-search-exception-fourth-amendment-loophole https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/12/law-enforcement-uses-b...
- heckubadu 10y agoHere's gov data on device searches, from the ACLU https://www.aclu.org/government-data-about-searches-international-travelers-laptops-and-personal-electronic-devices https://www.aclu.org/government-data-about-searches-internat...
- sova 10y agoTelecommunications devices are so strongly regulated and the laws regarding privacy so systemically ignored that it's a wonder we even petition our rhetorical "ownership" of said stuff. Jokes aside, just because an airport is an "effective border" and also a big police station at the same time, that does not mean you waive your rights.
- blintz 10y ago> More importantly, travelers are not legally required to unlock their devices, although agents can detain them for significant periods of time if they do not. What kind of ridiculous technicality is that? Detainment isn't supposed to be a tool to coerce cooperation.
- wheelerwj 10y agoevery government has a right to process a crime, and that takes time. so its not unlawful until it's unlawful.
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- JustSomeNobody 10y agoSo, if it was NASAs phone, why not call their legal department before turning over the phone? I carry a work phone and would definitely seek legal counsel before turning it over to anyone.
- anigbrowl 10y agoAnd if they won't let you?
- JustSomeNobody 10y agoI'm a US citizen and as such I have the right to legal counsel. Edit: yes that's I guess only technically during prosecution. But I still wouldn't turn over anything until I did.
- anigbrowl 10y agoYes, but good luck enforcing that if they don't like your face. Of course you should always assert your rights, but the notion that this will always be sufficient suggests to me that the holder hasn't ever been in a tough situation. I'm not having a go at you. I've seen criminal lawyers' jaws fall open when they take a class in immigration law and discover there's a whole parallel and much scarier legal system for 'other people'.
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- 6nf 10y agoThis guy is a US citizen. What are they going to do if he refuses? He has the right to enter the USA. At worst they can confiscate the phone but without a court order I don't see how they can detain him indefinitely. Can they?
- mahyarm 10y agoThey harass you for a quite a while and detain your for possibly a day or more. They might even play a game of 'I don't think your actually a US citizen'. You also get a note of 'had problems at the border' and all future crossings for you and anyone travelling with you will be far more unpleasant for many years. Not very pleasant for most people, and most people don't care about the contents of their phone that much unfortunately.
- bradneuberg 10y agoIf this becomes common place across borders phones should come with a "fake" unlock access code - if you enter it it drops you into a plain vanilla setup with some fake contacts perhaps. Might make sense to create fake email and social media accounts too then...
- nnd 10y agoLooks like one would need to wipe their phone before traveling to US from now on. What about laptops though? :/
- br_smartass 10y agoGreat freedom, huh?
- Esau 10y agoThis is bullshit. The U.S. should be required to treat its citizens in a constitutional manner regardless of where they are located.
- Frogolocalypse 10y agoWhile I have visited the states many times over the years, and enjoyed the time I spent there, I will never go there again.
- pedalpete 10y agoThe Customs agent insisted he had the authority search the device. I was thinking about this the other day, as a non-American, and I don't see how that is possible. I work for the Australian gov't and of course cannot give out passwords or access to any of the devices which I carry which belong to the Australian gov't. How does US Border controls deal with that situation. They definitely do not have the authority to search a device owned by a foreign gov't, though it also seems they don't have the authority to search the device of an American either. Thoughts?
- kentbrew 10y agoSome tweets from @Pinboard feel like they want to go here: This is a small point but important: don’t specify people are ‘US-born’; either you’re a US citizen or you’re not. Emphasizing that someone was born in the US as a kind of super-citizenship plays into the hands of people you don’t want to be helping. The proper term for someone born abroad who doesn’t speak English and has a brand-new US passport is: “American”
- 99_00 10y agoThis happens every day in western countries. It happened before Trump and it will happen after.
- donquichotte 10y agoThis reminds me of the guards on the border between Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan that wanted to check the photos on my phone, presumably because the import of pornographic material into Uzbekistan is strictly outlawed.
- LoonyBalloony 10y agoOh man, good thing the guards didn't know you were naked underneath your clothes!
- donquichotte 10y agoAlso, they have decent internet and little censoring in the country.
- JammyDodger 10y agoWhy is this even a story? I've had the same thing happen to multiple times coming into the UK. I'm also white and British if that makes any difference.
- canttestthis 10y agoBecause unlike the UK, the US has fundamental principles and values that are diametrically opposed to this.
- agd 10y agoJust because we in the UK have the awful Schedule 7, does not mean it's generally acceptable in Western democracies.
- MR4D 10y agoIntersting thought...since this appears to be the law of the land, and the border is controlled by the Executive Branch, what happens if somebody who works in one of the other two branches is stopped? It seems they would have a good claim that it's unconstitutional given the Separation of Powers that the constitution provides. I would think that once a lawyer frames the possibility of this in front of a judge, that the law will be stricken down.
- Abishek_Muthian 10y agoSupposedly the reason being analysed is his South Indian name ' Sidd Bikkannavar ' ; I'm curious to know the story behind his name being a South Indian myself. The part of the name 'annavar' is generally found in interior villages being associated with village gods but I have never come across anyone named this way, perhaps it was 'Siddarth' which got shortened to Sidd.
- npiazza83 10y agoHonest question here... can you plead the 5th amendment to avoid civil liability? I don't know if revealing company trade secrets is an actual crime (even if you work for NASA) but working for almost any company this would be breach of contract and grounds for termination...