5 ms·

A fair number of sleeper agents like this have been outed over the years. Another example that comes to mind is the KGB agent couple on which the TV show "The A

by Pyxl101 10y ago

A fair number of sleeper agents like this have been outed over the years. Another example that comes to mind is the KGB agent couple on which the TV show "The Americans" was based: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/07/discovered-our-parents-were-russian-spies-tim-alex-foley https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/07/discovered-our... FBI Operation Ghost Stories arrested 11 people back in 2010. https://vault.fbi.gov/ghost-stories-russian-foreign-intelligence-service-illegals/images https://vault.fbi.gov/ghost-stories-russian-foreign-intellig... What I'm wondering is: how many other agents are out there and haven't been caught yet? Or were here and left without being caught? I wonder if this type of agent is still in active use, in the sense of seeding more of them. Given the arrests just 7 years ago, I'd guess so. But perhaps not, since hacking and electronic surveillance can be so effective. You don't necessarily need an agent within a country's borders to penetrate a lot of their networks, email, and other communications. But you never know ... what lengths would Russia go to to get an agent TS/SCI clearance and access to a SCIF?

ethbro 10y ago
One of the inefficiencies of embedding agents like this seems to be that they're subject to the same vagaries of chance as all of us. What are the chances of an agent being hired and then promoted to have access to an SCI file you're interested in? It seems a pretty poor bet compared to turning individuals already in relevant positions.
- ocdtrekkie 10y ago
  Bear in mind that was also part of his job. Profiling people they could potentially turn.
- privong 10y ago
  > What are the chances of an agent being hired and then promoted to have access to an SCI file you're interested in? I think the chances are higher if you expand the realm of interest to industrial espionage.
  - ethbro 10y ago
    Statistically, this seems like a better bet for using the agents.
    - johansch 10y ago
      Right. For instance, if you are China.. odds are you have agents in Google and Facebook, right now.
      - nradov 10y ago
        Maybe not full-time spies but Chinese intelligence almost certainly targets such organizations with their “thousand grains of sand” approach. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/05/05/a-new-kind-of-spy/ http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/05/05/a-new-kind-of-s...
      - rdtsc 10y ago
        Working in defense and talking to candidates who applied from China (graduated from M.S. programs at some US universities), I sometimes wondered if some who applied would be agents working for Chinese Intelligence services...
        johansch 10y ago
        I can relate to that. I had my doubts about a former Chinese exchange student we hired. I was relieved when he made a very public display of anger against this 3d/globe thing we had to illustrate user activity because it happened to show Taiwan as a separate entity from China. So I guess I can recommend that as a trigger... (Someone with a mission would have kept quiet, I think.)
- im3w1l 10y ago
  You can provide them with covert help. If they have a team of 10 people helping them out, they will seem like a 10x performer...
  - nradov 10y ago
    Any help the Soviets would have provided those agents would have also increased the risk of detection due to the unavoidable contacts with the helpers.
- PhilWright 10y ago
  You can shortcut that process, waiting 20 years to get your agent promoted to a senior position is slow and relies on a lot of luck. Much easier to get your person into an IT position. Edward Snowden gained access to more secret documents than almost any individual person in the NSA. Get your infiltrator into the IT department and then help them with hacker tools and zero day exploits needed to extract data. Who knows how often this technique has already been used already.
TheCowboy 10y ago
From what I read, initially the Soviet "illegals" programs were successful. This was before the Cold War and during the early parts. After that, it was less successful and often viewed as a waste of resources. If interested, I recommend "The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archive and the Secret History of the KGB". There was a post-Cold War defection of an individual (Mitrokhin) who worked for the KGB in their archives and provided a large trove of intelligence. A researcher (Christopher Andrew) collaborated with him to produce 2 books, which included a large amount of data about the Soviet "illegals" programs. It's often going to just be more effective to bribe and blackmail people with access, rather than hope your illegals have successful careers and gain the right access.
- quirkafleeg 10y ago
  > There was a post-Cold War defection of an individual (Mitrokhin) who worked for the KGB in their archives and provided a large trove of intelligence. The article refers to that; in fact it's how this agent was identified: Barsky had in fact been trailed for several years by the FBI. His name had been discovered in files copied from KGB archives by Vasili Mitrokin, an archivist who walked into the British embassy in Riga in 1991 to offer up his secrets.

by Pyxl101 10y ago

ethbro 10y ago

One of the inefficiencies of embedding agents like this seems to be that they're subject to the same vagaries of chance as all of us. What are the chances of an agent being hired and then promoted to have access to an SCI file you're interested in? It seems a pretty poor bet compared to turning individuals already in relevant positions.

ocdtrekkie 10y ago
Bear in mind that was also part of his job. Profiling people they could potentially turn.
privong 10y ago
> What are the chances of an agent being hired and then promoted to have access to an SCI file you're interested in? I think the chances are higher if you expand the realm of interest to industrial espionage.
- ethbro 10y ago
  Statistically, this seems like a better bet for using the agents.
  - johansch 10y ago
    Right. For instance, if you are China.. odds are you have agents in Google and Facebook, right now.
    - nradov 10y ago
      Maybe not full-time spies but Chinese intelligence almost certainly targets such organizations with their “thousand grains of sand” approach. http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/05/05/a-new-kind-of-spy/ http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/05/05/a-new-kind-of-s...
    - rdtsc 10y ago
      Working in defense and talking to candidates who applied from China (graduated from M.S. programs at some US universities), I sometimes wondered if some who applied would be agents working for Chinese Intelligence services...
      - johansch 10y ago
        I can relate to that. I had my doubts about a former Chinese exchange student we hired. I was relieved when he made a very public display of anger against this 3d/globe thing we had to illustrate user activity because it happened to show Taiwan as a separate entity from China. So I guess I can recommend that as a trigger... (Someone with a mission would have kept quiet, I think.)
im3w1l 10y ago
You can provide them with covert help. If they have a team of 10 people helping them out, they will seem like a 10x performer...
- nradov 10y ago
  Any help the Soviets would have provided those agents would have also increased the risk of detection due to the unavoidable contacts with the helpers.
PhilWright 10y ago
You can shortcut that process, waiting 20 years to get your agent promoted to a senior position is slow and relies on a lot of luck. Much easier to get your person into an IT position. Edward Snowden gained access to more secret documents than almost any individual person in the NSA. Get your infiltrator into the IT department and then help them with hacker tools and zero day exploits needed to extract data. Who knows how often this technique has already been used already.

TheCowboy 10y ago

From what I read, initially the Soviet "illegals" programs were successful. This was before the Cold War and during the early parts. After that, it was less successful and often viewed as a waste of resources. If interested, I recommend "The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archive and the Secret History of the KGB". There was a post-Cold War defection of an individual (Mitrokhin) who worked for the KGB in their archives and provided a large trove of intelligence. A researcher (Christopher Andrew) collaborated with him to produce 2 books, which included a large amount of data about the Soviet "illegals" programs. It's often going to just be more effective to bribe and blackmail people with access, rather than hope your illegals have successful careers and gain the right access.

quirkafleeg 10y ago
> There was a post-Cold War defection of an individual (Mitrokhin) who worked for the KGB in their archives and provided a large trove of intelligence. The article refers to that; in fact it's how this agent was identified: Barsky had in fact been trailed for several years by the FBI. His name had been discovered in files copied from KGB archives by Vasili Mitrokin, an archivist who walked into the British embassy in Riga in 1991 to offer up his secrets.