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Ultrasound Ages Liquor Two Years in Just Three Days
- baccredited 10y agoNot sure if the tech is the same but Cleveland Whiskey does something similar and is already on the market. Disclaimer: I invested through YC company Wefunder.
- ridgeguy 10y agoThis looks different from Cleveland Whiskey. Cleveland accelerates aging by use of high pressure [1]. The technique reported in the NPR article uses ultrasound, apparently at ordinary pressure. The original journal article (pdf) is open sourced at [2]. [1] https://www.thrillist.com/drink/nation/the-pressure-aged-cleveland-whiskey-taste-test https://www.thrillist.com/drink/nation/the-pressure-aged-cle... [2] http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1350417716304187 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1350417716...
- sjg007 10y agoSo to extrapolate: ultrasound under high pressure and age in 30 minutes.
- luminiferous 10y agoI'm not sure they would go that well together; high pressure inhibits cavitation, I'm pretty sure, and cavitation is the primary mechanism by which the ultrasound method extracts the various compounds from the wood. Maybe if you used higher energy ultrasound?
- dman 10y agoHow has the experience on Wefunder been?
- baccredited 10y agoI'm a big fan. Have invested in over 100 companies through FundersClub/Wefunder/Angel.co over the last 4 yrs. Most of them YC companies. Startup investing is a long game, don't really expect meaningful returns until the 7 to 10 yr timeframe. Have backed off a bit recently with a need for more liquidity (kids entering college in the next few years).
- brilliantcode 10y agoWould you ever invest in open source?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- Eridrus 10y agoNot the parent, but open source seems like a terrible investment if you expect a return, but I think we definitely need to figure out how to fund open source, given how much benefit it brings to our industry. I would be super interested in a Kickstarter for open source, though I wonder if it would suffer from the same issues that Kickstarter itself suffers from (lots of ambitious projects, most not being delivered on time).
- brilliantcode 10y ago> I would be super interested in a Kickstarter for open source, though I wonder if it would suffer from the same issues that Kickstarter itself suffers from (lots of ambitious projects, most not being delivered on time). I'm actually working on that, please checkout my profile for link or this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13604703 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13604703 The problem you illustrated is a challenging one, and I'm still thinking about how to solve it, would love to hear ideas.
- Eridrus 10y ago
- mixologic 10y agoI wonder if thats part of the process that is used in the Lost Spirits Distillery uses: https://www.wired.com/2015/04/lost-spirits/ https://www.wired.com/2015/04/lost-spirits/ Disclaimer: I've purchased some of their Navy Strength rum, and it was incredible. Aging liquor may become a thing of the past.
- 6stringmerc 10y agoThis reminds me of some of the goofy aging snake-oil techniques that audiophile-type guitarists try on their guitars. Putting them in vibrating jigs and stuff. That said, if there's a way to significantly tighten / age / enhance the density or resonance of wood using some kind of technique, that's pretty awesome. Then drink aged liquor before playing on aged guitar. Win-win.
- kibwen 10y agoSounds like a market opportunity: pre-distressed guitars to go with your pre-distressed jeans. :P
- compiler-guy 10y agoPre-distressed guitars are sold all the time as "relics". Both Fender and Gibson do it. Their custom shop will relic them to match a particularly famous one or generally. I would link to a source, but they are all pretty much just advertisements. Your favorite search engine could find them.
- analog31 10y agoHere's one, just for the sake of completeness: http://www.fendercustomshop.com/series/artist/jaco-pastorius-tribute-jazz-bass-rosewood-fingerboard-3-color-sunburst/ http://www.fendercustomshop.com/series/artist/jaco-pastorius... I'm guessing it won't make me play like Jaco. ;-)
- aaronbrethorst 10y agoUgh, sounds like Leica's B.S. M.O. http://www.popphoto.com/gear/2015/02/new-gear-leica-m-p-correspondent-was-designed-lenny-kravitz-comes-pre-distressed http://www.popphoto.com/gear/2015/02/new-gear-leica-m-p-corr...
- mazlix 10y agoA close friend of mine made https://www.tonerite.com/ https://www.tonerite.com/ to distress your own guitars. I know it's done well.
- ubercore 10y agoRelativity Whiskey is doing a similar thing (not the same process, just speed-aging): https://www.relativity-whiskey.com https://www.relativity-whiskey.com I've had it, and it's very convincing. I'm not an expert by any means, but I doubt I would be able to tell it apart from truly aged whiskey.
- Balgair 10y agoStranahan's did the same thing for a while when they were first starting out too. For me, it tasted kinda 'egg-y' and I hated it. Now that they have been out for a few years, their whiskeys are lot better. Something is lost in that 'accelerated' process that makes it taste not so good to me at least.
- M_Grey 10y agoIf this had been a conclusion reached as a result of careful analysis, then I'd be interested. Relying on people to taste-test a difference is just a broadly pointless exercise I think, and doesn't really prove the conclusion the headline is selling.
- RobertoG 10y ago"If this had been a conclusion reached as a result of careful analysis, then I'd be interested" Ironically, we could say the same about your post ;-) The following is only a link away: "[..] This way, the results show that higher powers of ultrasound, of nearly 40 W/L, in addition with the movement of the spirit, improve the extraction of phenolic compounds in a 33.94%, after seven days of ageing. Then, applying Youden and Steiner’s experimental design, eight experiments of ageing were performed, and the samples obtained by this new method were analysed to obtain information related to their physicochemical and oenological characterisation in order to determine the experimental conditions that produce the best ageing results.[..]" http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1350417716304187 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1350417716...
- shkkmo 10y agoIf it's a blind taste-test, it is arguably the only measure that matters.
- Neliquat 10y agoBut what ancient lineage and obscure origin stories will you impress your friends and yourself with? The marketing is half the product with liquor, the only thing sold for human consumption not requiring an ingredient label.
- mikeash 10y agoSince good taste is the goal, how else would you evaluate the results? As long as the taste testing was carried out properly (i.e. blinded, randomized), it's fine.
- deleted 10y ago
- innocentoldguy 10y agoI could have 100 year old scotch in just 150 days? Hoorah!!! Oh, wait. This is just based on subjective taste? Well, everyone knows that people, in general, don't have any...
- mikeash 10y agoWhat advantage would 100 year old scotch have besides subjective taste?
- Someone 10y agoSnobbery. It may taste as good, but if it becomes available too all, it will be judged to be inferior. Diamonds are higher rated the clearer they are, except for when they are man-made, too.
- innocentoldguy 10y agoThat's what makes it a joke, right? Ah, the cleverness that goes over people's heads...
- mikeash 10y agoOh, is that what that wooshing sound was?
- bubblesocks 10y agoProbably. You can fix that by standing taller though.
- bubblesocks 10y agoAmusing observation. Having had 10, 15, 20, and 100-year-old scotch, I must admit, I couldn't really tell the difference, other than price. Yeah, they tasted a bit different, but so do Aberfeldy and Ardbeg. I wouldn't say one is any better than the other though; unless you really like the smokey taste of old pianos, then Ardbeg is definitely the best.
- ape4 10y agoHey, maybe this can cut my liquor budget in half!
- bitJericho 10y agoOr you can buy twice as much!
- psadri 10y agoThe question is: does it work on cheese?
- tempodox 10y agoAnd the next question: Can you do it yourself? The shops where I get my cheese from all seem to be afraid that properly aged cheese might explode when they switch the light on.
- luminiferous 10y agoI wouldn't imagine so. The mechanism of action for spirits here is that the ultrasound extracts the various flavor compounds from the wood much quicker than it normally takes the alcohol solution to without ultrasound. But aged cheese's flavor mostly comes from the action of mold and/or bacteria chemically altering the cheese. I can't imagine that blasting ultrasound into the cheese would accelerate this process, sadly.
- dghughes 10y agoSomewhat related molecular biologists used a gene mapping application to pair different varieties of wine and cheese types. http://www.wineandcheesemap.com/ http://www.wineandcheesemap.com/ News articles about it: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/wine-cheese-pairing-app-1.3885573 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/wine-cheese-pairing-ap... http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38333693 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38333693
- dsiegel2275 10y agoBut can we age babies this way? Or... are we already?
- CodeWriter23 10y agoThere are no studies showing this process to have any effect on human tissue or blood.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- anfractuosity 10y agoI'm curious, it doesn't mention anything about oxidisation, which I thought was pretty important in ageing in casks and I think may be hard to emulate. Edit: It does mention about acetic acid increasing though interestingly. According to wikipedia "Ethanol can be oxidized to acetaldehyde and further oxidized to acetic acid", so I'd be interested to know more about how it is formed in this case. It does seem like there are lots of other by-products of oxidation though: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23143031_Isolation_and_Structure_of_Whiskey_Polyphenols_Produced_by_Oxidation_of_Oak_Wood_Ellagitannins https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23143031_Isolation_...
- massaman_yams 10y agoIncidentally, ethanol > acetaldehyde > acetic acid is precisely the way the human body metabolizes alcohol in the liver.
- anfractuosity 10y agoInteresting! I didn't know that.
- staticautomatic 10y agoThis reminds me of something I encountered when I used to work in a wine store, which was a sort of copper wand that you would place in a glass of wine and it would "age" the wine. At first I assumed this was snake oil bullshit, but after some research, it turned out there was actually a well documented reaction whereby (IIRC) copper catalyzes the conversion of alcohols into certain ketones and aldehydes, mimicking part of the natural oxidation process.
- Florin_Andrei 10y agoIf you really care about fine nuances of taste, drinking almost anything from metal cups has pretty clear effects. Not aluminum, but things like brass or even various iron alloys. Especially if the drink is slightly acidic. Regular "food" and "drinks" tend to be pretty complex chemical cocktails, so no wonder they have strange reactions with anything even remotely inclined to react chemically. Now I wonder if the taste of the original Turkish coffee is related in small part to the usage of tiny copper pots for making it.
- Balgair 10y agoYes this is typically why European foods are thought to be less acidic in taste, the issue was the pewter dinnerware of the aristocracy. Tomatoes were blamed for a while, but all acids will allow the leaching out of lead from the pewter into the food and then usually death followed. Romans actually used this technique to sweeten foods and usually wine. To extend this to the use of general metal ware is straightforward. Though not lead, necessarily, I am sure that heated/acidic drinks will do something to the food taste, and maybe not just via leaching. Egg white, whipped in a copper bowl, will stand up much longer and are more satin-y than in other bowls. It would be most interesting to compare the different metals and choose the ones that most exemplify the desired results; hopefully not lead poisoning though. http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/why-the-tomato-was-feared-in-europe-for-more-than-200-years-863735/ http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/why-the-tomato-wa... http://io9.gizmodo.com/5877587/the-first-artificial-sweetener-poisoned-lots-of-romans http://io9.gizmodo.com/5877587/the-first-artificial-sweetene...
- beagle3 10y agoAlso good for drying clothes efficiently[0], with the unfortunate side effect of also weakening and undoing the seams... [0] http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/21/technology/ultrasonic-dryer/ http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/21/technology/ultrasonic-dryer/
- abakker 10y agoIncidentally, I have been doing this for making bitters for years. I have an ultrasonic cleaner and I fill it with a warm water. Then I put liquor and flavorings in a jar - sometimes grain alcohol, sometimes 151, sometimes strong bourbon, depending on the intended result - and hit it with ultrasound for about 30 minutes at 100F. I make about 2-3 fluid ounces at a time and it works great. Not sure I'd call it (Aging), but it certainly does infuse things well. for certain things, like fresh rosemary, you can see the oils separating from the leaves as soon as the ultrasonic starts. it is nearly instantaneous. I suspect that the time is a function of surface area. If instead of wood chips they used shavings, I'd bet that they could take the time down even further.
- nickff 10y agoThanks for sharing this; do you happen to have any guides or blogposts on the subject handy?
- abakker 10y agoI don't, other than to say that experimentation is easy - I bought my ultrasonic off of eBay. (bigger is better), makes the device more useful. I use small spice jars for making my batches, and woody things last longer than squishy ones. i.e. orange rind dried is lasts longer than orange rind fresh. However, fresh orange rind gives a different taste and is cool if you're doing a cocktail night, or something. You can do things that you can't do any other way like this. Cloves, Sassafras root, ginger, juniper berries, rosemary, lavender, sage. All have great effect. Also, Ultrasonic makes EXCELLENT sangria. This is the only way to do sangria, IMO. You can either use bitters to add to sangria, or just put wine and other things directly into the ultrasonic and infuse that way. It works great with herbs. For fruits, you should really just use the juice or crush them with a mortar and pestle. Any fruit soaking in the sangria is purely for show. IMO, all sangria should have sage in it. Sassafras in small quantities makes cheap red wine taste about 2 shelves better. YMMV.
- malandrew 10y agoCan you share the instructions and ingredients for your sangria? Also, you said bigger is better. What size/volume would you recommend? Is there any brand of ultrasonic cleaner that is most recommended or are they basically all the same?
- james_pm 10y agoThe TV show Moonshiners has been dealing with accelerated aging processes recently. The method used by a pair of the moonshiners was to highly electrically charge charred wood immersed in the alcohol. At least according to the show, the two "inventors" had a patent on their method. They were allegedly getting two years of aging in two days.
- vacri 10y agoMaybe this could be marketed as "Yeller Liquor"...